Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Ancient Hebrew Polytheism


Jeanne dArc

Recommended Posts

Note: had to repost this, I was unaware that Hebrew script could not be transcribed properly on this forum. My apologies. I've simply transcribed the phonemes as best I could so that they are intelligible.

Much as my actual fields are evolutionary biology and zoology, I was trained in Classical Hebrew (and to a lesser extent Koine Greek) as a child, having been between fundamentalist Presbytarian, Catholic, and Jewish parts of my family. I am no longer religious, however I still find myself greatly interested in the Bible: the Miqra ("Old Testament") in particular. Not for any "spiritual" reasons, I don't believe the Bible to be true: it intrigues me greatly however as a window into the ancient Hebrew culture, a civilization which has been effectively extinct for more than 2000 years. I have, in my spare time, been working on a secular (i.e., unbiased) translation and commentary on the Miqra, for a number of years.

Job has interested me quite a lot, as it presents a form of Judaism that was all but dead by the time of its composition: a Judaic religion and cosmography that was quite markedly outside of the orthodoxy which developed during the Babylonian Exile of the Hebrew people (an orthodoxy under which nearly all of the other books of the Bible were written or compiled, with few exceptions).

I take particular interest in the mention of numerous gods, including:

  • bnj-h’lhjm (benê-ha’elohîm, “sons of the ’elohîm”, “sons of the gods”), derived implicitly from the pantheon of earlier Canaanite religion, also called the "Elohim".
  • hštn (hašŠatan, “the Šatan”, “the adversary”, “the opponent”, “the accuser”), the divine prosecutor.
  • jhwh (Yahweh) and ’l (’El), the (at times contrary) father gods.
  • šdj (Šadday), a Semitic goddess associated with sacred mountains.
  • mwt (Mowt, "Death”), the god of death and the underworld.
  • šχr (Šahhar, “dawn”, “morning star”) and šlm (Šalêm, “dusk”, “evening star”), the twin gods of the morning and evening stars.
  • An unnamed group of ’š-’lhjm (’êš ’elohîm, “fiery gods”, “gods of fire”), fire gods that acted under the direct order of the higher deities (presumably the same as the šrpjm (šerapîm, "Seraphim", "burning ones", "fiery ones")).

Pseudo-divine monsters also appear, such as the bhmwt (behemowt, "Behemoth"), and the two sea dragons of chaos: lwjtn (Liwyatan, "Leviathan", “coiling serpent”, “entwined serpent”) and rhb (Rahab, “maelstrom”, “blusterer”, “tempestuous one”). I could go on.

Job presents a definite polytheistic theology, much more akin to the sister Levantine cultures which the Hebrews evolved from: Job also gives an attitude towards divinity and fate in which even gods are not truly omniscient or omnipotent.

The book of Genesis is likewise interesting for its cosmographical content, and its extensive mythology dealing with etiology and superstition.

I have thus far placed most of my interest on Job and Genesis, however I plan to eventually complete a translation and commentary on the entire Miqra, and likely the New Testament as well.

Any thoughts on this? It seems to me that most modern Abrahamists don't exactly like to acknowledge the polytheistic roots of their religion, and the extinct Hebraic culture from whence it came.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Ben Masada is going to be sad...

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What, no mention of the Ugaritic mother-goddess Asherah, consort of El? I'm genuinely surprised. She was highly regarded by the women of Israel.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arguably, it's obvious they were once upon a time Polytheists if you consider the "Thou Shall have no Gods beyond I" commandment,

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arguably, it's obvious they were once upon a time Polytheists if you consider the "Thou Shall have no Gods beyond I" commandment,

Yes, it did seem to be one of the first and worst NO NOs.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any thoughts on this?

It seems to me that most modern Abrahamists don't exactly like to acknowledge the polytheistic roots of their religion, ...

Yup

It all came from the Sumerian pantheon

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

abraham was the last man on earth who believed in only one god. remember that rebecca stole her fathers gods, when she and her sister and jacob departed for the land of canaan.

so the question is, was abraham the first hebrew or was his father and mother also hebrew.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

abraham was the last man on earth who believed in only one god. remember that rebecca stole her fathers gods, when she and her sister and jacob departed for the land of canaan.

so the question is, was abraham the first hebrew or was his father and mother also hebrew.

Not sure but I think Abraham and his descendants were the first to be known by that term. It literally means "passing over, or passing through" It was his decision to believe in a single God and follow him that led to the creation of the Hebrews.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The cultures surrounding the early Hebrews were undoubtedly polytheistic. As such, at many times the Hebrews did worship other "gods" as they were led astray. However, JHVH is monotheistic, there are no other gods besides him. You'll find polytheistic references throughout the Bible because the Hebrews at many times wrongly worshipped false gods. But the core ideal of Yahweh-worship is that he is one, and one alone, the only true God, all other deities are false, just idols made of wood and metal.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What, no mention of the Ugaritic mother-goddess Asherah, consort of El? I'm genuinely surprised. She was highly regarded by the women of Israel.

I was going to mention her, but she wasn't mentioned in Job, which was the primary focus of the original post. I can talk more about her if anyone's interested. Fascinating history there.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

abraham was the last man on earth who believed in only one god. remember that rebecca stole her fathers gods, when she and her sister and jacob departed for the land of canaan.

so the question is, was abraham the first hebrew or was his father and mother also hebrew.

Abraham didn't exist...........

Even assuming he did, why must he have believed in only one god? He refers to several deities, not only Yahweh. Abraham was more or less a legendary figure used by the Hebrews to claim that they had a supernatural claim to the land of Canaan: that it was promised to them. Of course there's no reason to believe that this was actually the case: especially since the Northern Kingdom versus Southern Kingdom versions of Abraham were different, and both historically inaccurate.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The cultures surrounding the early Hebrews were undoubtedly polytheistic. As such, at many times the Hebrews did worship other "gods" as they were led astray. However, JHVH is monotheistic, there are no other gods besides him. You'll find polytheistic references throughout the Bible because the Hebrews at many times wrongly worshipped false gods. But the core ideal of Yahweh-worship is that he is one, and one alone, the only true God, all other deities are false, just idols made of wood and metal.

Except that doesn't make any sense based on my post..... you're saying that Job, the "perfect and righteous" man, was "led astray"? Because there are clearly numerous gods in Job. As there are in most books. Genesis alone refers to at least four gods by name or title, and an indefinite number of non-specific ones. At best, Yahweh was at various times a monolatristic chief god: but that wasn't always the case. Frankly, the Hebrews seem to have had crises of faith at numerous junctures, about whether Yahweh or El was the chief god: rather like the Sumero-Babylonians before them had similar difficulty deciding between Enlil and Enki. There is nothing in particular in the Miqra that indicates strict monotheism: books like Daniel written during the late Exile come the closest, and even they can't ever completely abandon polytheism. Any claims of going "astray" are either referring to distinctly foreign gods, or were effectively retconned during the Exile, when the orthodoxy was thoroughly overhauled compared to its state during the Monarchy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Ben Masada is going to be sad...

I look forward to his appearance, haha :tu: I've seen him around, but we haven't interacted too much that I recall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeanne

Nice topic.

The priests of YHWH, whose opinions grace the received Jewish Bible, may well have believed that their god was the only God. That doesn't mean their opinion was shared by the rest of their culture or even by their clients.

The temperate northern kingdom, Israel, was apparently relaxed about religion compared with the bleak desert south, Judea. Even so, Jeremiah complained that votive cakes were offered to the Queen of Heaven in First Temple era Jerusalem, in Judea. Epiphanius, a Fourth Century Christian scold, complains about Christian women celebrating the same rites (except that in the Christian era the "Queen of Heaven" was Mary, who isn't a goddess... much).

So far as I can tell, gods are a kind of literary character. Choose the right words and you can make any situation fit into whatever framework you please. The ample majority of living Nicene Christians (basically the non-Protestants - but including some Anglicans and Lutherans) refer to Mary as "Queen of Heaven" and "Mother of God." This majority is even accused of idolatry by the minority of Christians who don't give Mary these titles.

How is the "monotheism" game not over then and there for the called-out majority? That's easy. The majority distinguishes between the one God whom they worship, and the Queen of Heaven, Mother of God whom they venerate. Oh, well, in that case, game on.

Plainly, there is no "objective" distinction between worship and veneration. It is simply intention, and even then, the "intention" may only be a choice of words.

And it's not just Mary. You mentioned Job, with its opening parade of "sons of God." Supposedly, the opening and ending of Job are much older than the long middle, and of pre-Israelite origin. Presto, change-oh. The sons of God are now angels ("messengers" in Greek, and not to be confused with Hermes, also a messenger god in Greek thinking).

How are angels not gods? See above for the difference between worship and veneration. Islam "solves" the problem by making its angels mere intentionless functionaries, but then turning around to rely on Jinn for fantasy personification of evildoing, like Satan. Jinn supposedly aren't gods, because they were created, and although long-lived and supernaturally powerful, they will eventually die. You know, like Wotan, or any classical Indo-European god.

Since there is nothing substantial in religion except words, the right choice of words makes the speaker bullet-proof. The "polytheist" roots of the Abrahamic faiths obviously bothers the self-proclaimed monotheist devotees not at all. Why should it? Monotheism, monolatry, idolatry - all perform the same practices, just using different words as needed.

Edited by eight bits
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Br Cornelius

The cultures surrounding the early Hebrews were undoubtedly polytheistic. As such, at many times the Hebrews did worship other "gods" as they were led astray. However, JHVH is monotheistic, there are no other gods besides him. You'll find polytheistic references throughout the Bible because the Hebrews at many times wrongly worshipped false gods. But the core ideal of Yahweh-worship is that he is one, and one alone, the only true God, all other deities are false, just idols made of wood and metal.

Easy to say in a set of revisionist texts which were designed to justify the preeminence of JVHW. Throughout most of history they were a set of loosely related tribes with a range of Gods. the punishment for worshipping other Gods was only added at a very late stage once all the assimilation of the disperate traditions had taken place. YVHW was throughout almost all of the "Hebrews" history one of many Gods.

The Torah is a text designed to define a single national identity and it was designed by the leaders of the Hebrews for that purpose. Almost all of the legends in the bible can be found in older forms where they were parts of the polytheistic antecedent belief systems. The Torah is a collection of modified tribal legends given a certain coherent national character.

Br Cornelius

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note: had to repost this, I was unaware that Hebrew script could not be transcribed properly on this forum. My apologies. I've simply transcribed the phonemes as best I could so that they are intelligible.

Much as my actual fields are evolutionary biology and zoology, I was trained in Classical Hebrew (and to a lesser extent Koine Greek) as a child, having been between fundamentalist Presbytarian, Catholic, and Jewish parts of my family. I am no longer religious, however I still find myself greatly interested in the Bible: the Miqra ("Old Testament") in particular. Not for any "spiritual" reasons, I don't believe the Bible to be true: it intrigues me greatly however as a window into the ancient Hebrew culture, a civilization which has been effectively extinct for more than 2000 years. I have, in my spare time, been working on a secular (i.e., unbiased) translation and commentary on the Miqra, for a number of years.

Job has interested me quite a lot, as it presents a form of Judaism that was all but dead by the time of its composition: a Judaic religion and cosmography that was quite markedly outside of the orthodoxy which developed during the Babylonian Exile of the Hebrew people (an orthodoxy under which nearly all of the other books of the Bible were written or compiled, with few exceptions).

I take particular interest in the mention of numerous gods, including:

  • bnj-h’lhjm (benê-ha’elohîm, “sons of the ’elohîm”, “sons of the gods”), derived implicitly from the pantheon of earlier Canaanite religion, also called the "Elohim".
  • hštn (hašŠatan, “the Šatan”, “the adversary”, “the opponent”, “the accuser”), the divine prosecutor.
  • jhwh (Yahweh) and ’l (’El), the (at times contrary) father gods.
  • šdj (Šadday), a Semitic goddess associated with sacred mountains.
  • mwt (Mowt, "Death”), the god of death and the underworld.
  • šχr (Šahhar, “dawn”, “morning star”) and šlm (Šalêm, “dusk”, “evening star”), the twin gods of the morning and evening stars.
  • An unnamed group of ’š-’lhjm (’êš ’elohîm, “fiery gods”, “gods of fire”), fire gods that acted under the direct order of the higher deities (presumably the same as the šrpjm (šerapîm, "Seraphim", "burning ones", "fiery ones")).

Pseudo-divine monsters also appear, such as the bhmwt (behemowt, "Behemoth"), and the two sea dragons of chaos: lwjtn (Liwyatan, "Leviathan", “coiling serpent”, “entwined serpent”) and rhb (Rahab, “maelstrom”, “blusterer”, “tempestuous one”). I could go on.

Job presents a definite polytheistic theology, much more akin to the sister Levantine cultures which the Hebrews evolved from: Job also gives an attitude towards divinity and fate in which even gods are not truly omniscient or omnipotent.

The book of Genesis is likewise interesting for its cosmographical content, and its extensive mythology dealing with etiology and superstition.

I have thus far placed most of my interest on Job and Genesis, however I plan to eventually complete a translation and commentary on the entire Miqra, and likely the New Testament as well.

Any thoughts on this? It seems to me that most modern Abrahamists don't exactly like to acknowledge the polytheistic roots of their religion, and the extinct Hebraic culture from whence it came.

I'd love to hear more... more about everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except that doesn't make any sense based on my post.....

Easy to say in a set of revisionist texts which were designed to justify the preeminence of JVHW....

Nevertheless, what I said reflects my views on the matter. You don't need to accept it, I'm just saying what it is that I see as the truth of the matter.
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Abraham didn't exist...........

Even assuming he did, why must he have believed in only one god? He refers to several deities, not only Yahweh. Abraham was more or less a legendary figure used by the Hebrews to claim that they had a supernatural claim to the land of Canaan: that it was promised to them. Of course there's no reason to believe that this was actually the case: especially since the Northern Kingdom versus Southern Kingdom versions of Abraham were different, and both historically inaccurate.

you statement, does not mean that abraham worshipped more than one god. he could have knowledge of more than one god and there are more than one god. there is a whole family of gods, but only one of importance to earth.

i also find it laughable that when ever someone wants to discredit the bible, they just say said person did not exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except that doesn't make any sense based on my post..... you're saying that Job, the "perfect and righteous" man, was "led astray"? Because there are clearly numerous gods in Job. As there are in most books. Genesis alone refers to at least four gods by name or title, and an indefinite number of non-specific ones. At best, Yahweh was at various times a monolatristic chief god: but that wasn't always the case. Frankly, the Hebrews seem to have had crises of faith at numerous junctures, about whether Yahweh or El was the chief god: rather like the Sumero-Babylonians before them had similar difficulty deciding between Enlil and Enki. There is nothing in particular in the Miqra that indicates strict monotheism: books like Daniel written during the late Exile come the closest, and even they can't ever completely abandon polytheism. Any claims of going "astray" are either referring to distinctly foreign gods, or were effectively retconned during the Exile, when the orthodoxy was thoroughly overhauled compared to its state during the Monarchy.

and ever time the had a crises of faith, they got conquered and removed from the promise land. the last time was when rome scattered them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Br Cornelius

Nevertheless, what I said reflects my views on the matter. You don't need to accept it, I'm just saying what it is that I see as the truth of the matter.

I think though that an objective analysis of the historic data (rather than reference to the Bible) would confirm my position.

Br Cornelius

Link to comment
Share on other sites

in the bible it talks about a jewish chief moving a mountain to invade babylon the city. in history, it is recorded that a general changed the course of a river to invade the same city. the only way to get an army into the city was via the river bed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think though that an objective analysis of the historic data (rather than reference to the Bible) would confirm my position.

Br Cornelius

It is fair to say that Josephus is also a form of objective data.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Br Cornelius

Only by studying the antecedent texts/myths to the Biblical stories can you understand the strands from which proto-hebrew culture came from, and they were many and varied and almost never monotheistic. Its like saying that just because the British are mostly Christian now - they were always christian.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only by studying the antecedent texts/myths to the Biblical stories can you understand the strands from which proto-hebrew culture came from, and they were many and varied and almost never monotheistic. Its like saying that just because the British are mostly Christian now - they were always christian.

Br Cornelius

no, it would be more like the british started out christian and left it and come back to it several times. and not everyone who lived in britian were called british. the celts weren't and the group before them weren't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Br Cornelius

no, it would be more like the british started out christian and left it and come back to it several times. and not everyone who lived in britian were called british. the celts weren't and the group before them weren't.

But that never happened to the British or the Hebrews. Its a legend to build a nation and YVHW was photoshopped in at various critical points to create the illusion that he was always the top God. And its good of you to point out the fact that throughout most of their history there was no single nation of Hebrews, there was a group of very loosely related semitic tribes with similar (but different) beliefs. The chronologies in Genesis are part of the fiction of continuity and disproved simply by the basic facts of human evolution and the literature of the greater powers of the region such as Babylon and Egypt.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.