10148 replies to this topic

[zoser]

Again on the same documentary the concept is demonstrated using some clay like material.



The following imprint is formed.



The same effect is seen in stone everywhere:

Edited by zoser, 04 January 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[zoser]

So what does all this add up to?

Several indicators of intense heat.

Deep mould marks in solid rock all over Peru consistent with objects being pushed into the stone, both accidental and deliberate (see snake effect above ).

Bulging out effects in much larger blocks consistent with weight being exerted on soft material.

Vitrification which is known to be a side effect of intense heat.

Evidence of blocks from dismantled walls where deep prints have been made from heavy blocks on top.  This now fully accounts for the precision joins.

Vitrification on unlevelled surfaces from quarrying areas.  This must have been the result of initial cutting and not post chemical treatment.

That's all for tonight.

Z

Edited by zoser, 04 January 2013 - 09:42 PM.

[JGirl]

Abramelin, on 04 January 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Well, maybe I am just a guy with no life and all the time of the world, lol. I can't talk for Zoser: he appears to have a life, and thus no time to really delve deeper into this stuff.

But here is more.

Lichen and certain microbes are able to dissolve rocks like granite using oxalates, and the process is (as already mentioned)  "chelation":

Biodeterioration of Stone in Tropical Environments: An Overview
by Rakesh Kumar,Anuradha V. Kumar

http://books.google....andstone&f=true


And back to a plant I think is the one we are looking for: Caladium.


(...) phytochemical analysis showed that caladium species had significantly higher levels (P < 0.05) of  Oxalate (10.10 %) and cyanogenic glycosides (5.20 %) than the rest of the samples.  The samples were found to be rich sources of macro minerals as well as some trace elements.

http://www.transcamp...2Dec200913.html


Cyanogenesis is the ability of some plants to
synthesize cyanogenic glycosides, which when
enzymically hydrolyzed, release cyanohydric acid
(HCN), known as prussic acid (Harborne, 1972,
1986, 1993).

http://www.scielo.br...n5/a06v43n5.pdf

http://www.botanical...cglycosides.htm

All The Parts Of The Caladium Bicolor Contain Toxic Substances
http://greensplant.b...or-contain.html


Caladium spp.

Family: Araceae
Malay Name: Keladi
Other Names: Mother-in-law plant, elephant’s ear, Angle-wings, Fancy-leaved Caladium, Candidum, Exposition, Pink cloud, Seagull, stoplight, Texas wonder, Caladium X hortulanum cv.caladium.

Information
These types of herbal plants have rhizomes. Daunya heart-shaped and has a green color and patterned red, white or other colors.

Use

Ornamental plant site

Poisoned

Toxic Part: Entire plant

Active ingredients: Calcium oxalate
Effects of Poisoning

Calcium oxalate is a sense of irritation with the glow and fire effects on the tongue, mouth and throat. Breathing difficulty occurs when swelling occurs at the pharyngeal tract. spasms in the abdomen and delirium. Other toxicity was reported numbness, nausea and vomiting.

Emergency Treatment

Clean the remaining plants from the body. Clean with soap and water if exposed to the skin. Gargle and drink water or milk if ingested as it can dissolve toxins in these plants. Sucking ice cubes to reduce pain in the mouth. Get medical attention immediately.



http://allabout-racu...ladium-spp.html

This is indeed some nasty weed.


.

i grow these in my garden. they're beautiful! i can't imagine eating it by mistake though lol

[the L]

Harte, on 04 January 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

You can cut the fake drama, we've already found several sites where you can buy that book.  Here's one for you: http://www.exoticind...volumes-IDJ479/

You shouldn't be surprised to learn that this has come up a time or two around here.  Here's a thread that may interest you: http://www.unexplain...opic=85816&st=0

It came up in there, among several other threads, IIRC.

Harte

That wasnt drama neither fake. It was teasing.
Yes I was thinking on online.
Thanks anyway.
Btw nice try for providing that UM link because there are none answer on it. You could wrote in Vimana thread about Little redhood and wolf. That doesnt mean you find answer.

[the L]

Wearer of Hats, on 03 January 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

Maybe they had that old "only God is perfect" mindset tht pervaded European thought and art for so long - you know the one, the intentionally making a mistake etc thst sort of thng, so for the builders no two blocks could be the same because only the gods were capable of perfection.

We were doing that? Didnt know that. In what period? Imagine if ignorance is reason for those polygonal blocks.

[Oniomancer]

zoser, on 04 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Unlikely.

But then if it was a handling mark why not discard the piece and start over?  Manipulating these blocks clearly wasn't difficult.  Suggests to me that it was done after initial build.

Conversely, if molding the rocks was so easy, why didn't they smooth out the marks and protrusions after the fact?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

zoser, on 04 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

So what does all this add up to?

Several indicators of intense heat.

Deep mould marks in solid rock all over Peru consistent with objects being pushed into the stone, both accidental and deliberate (see snake effect above ).

Bulging out effects in much larger blocks consistent with weight being exerted on soft material.

Vitrification which is known to be a side effect of intense heat.

Evidence of blocks from dismantled walls where deep prints have been made from heavy blocks on top.  This now fully accounts for the precision joins.

Vitrification on unlevelled surfaces from quarrying areas.  This must have been the result of initial cutting and not post chemical treatment.

That's all for tonight.

Z

Unless the heating/cooking/firing is used to reverse the softening process, just like firing clay to form porcelain.
Basically, they use the chemical to soften the rock, get it into a good shape and the heat it again to harden it/cook off the chemical, except some of the crystals in the rock react to the heat and vitrify or the rock gets scorched - shoddy/easily distracted workmen are not a modern development after all.

That serpentine shape could have been easily carved in a soft, clay-like rock.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

the L, on 04 January 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

We were doing that? Didnt know that. In what period? Imagine if ignorance is reason for those polygonal blocks.

Memories are sadly vague, but I seem to recall it turning up in early Renaissance  art and/or architecture.

Or ... as our friend Professor Google informs us ... it's Islamic art.
http://www.geometric....uk/perfect.htm

[zoser]

Wearer of Hats, on 04 January 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Unless the heating/cooking/firing is used to reverse the softening process, just like firing clay to form porcelain.
Basically, they use the chemical to soften the rock, get it into a good shape and the heat it again to harden it/cook off the chemical, except some of the crystals in the rock react to the heat and vitrify or the rock gets scorched - shoddy/easily distracted workmen are not a modern development after all.

That serpentine shape could have been easily carved in a soft, clay-like rock.

Not convincing. Try putting a 100 tonne block in an oven.

No evidence that they had chemicals to soften rock never mind penetrate that depth in the rock.

Jan Peter de Jong and Chris Jordon's findings on the subject:

http://www.scubbly.com/item/51578/

Edited by zoser, 04 January 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[zoser]

Oniomancer, on 04 January 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Conversely, if molding the rocks was so easy, why didn't they smooth out the marks and protrusions after the fact?

Why they were left in this state with mould marks I have no idea.  Maybe it just didn't matter at Sacsayhuaman.  The Cuzco walls are nearly perfect with just the odd blemish.

The marks are what they are regardless.

Edited by zoser, 04 January 2013 - 10:05 PM.

[Oniomancer]

zoser, on 04 January 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Here are more pieces of the jigsaw puzzle.

In my summary on precision architecture I stated that the lips and steps in the stone wall joints were not intended but the result of different weight blocks acting on soft clay like stone.

Here is the proof in the form of blocks from a dismantled wall.  The images are snapshots taken from a documentary summarising Gamarra's findings:





Here is one picture that you would most probably have seen from the youtube clip on the subject of vitrification.  I didn't appreciate the significance of it until now.



The shine is the vitrification effect again.

The striking thing is the depth of the moulding.  This piece was again done when the stone was in a clay like condition and some moulding tool was run down the stone to create the snake effect.  The stone to the far right of the block must have been subject to the heat of the whole block because it too is vitrified but it wasn't smoothed to the same degree with the flat  moulding tool.

This is exactly the same effect you would get if a moulding tool was run across a piece of soft clay.  Then smoothed with a flat implement.

Can this be explained chemically?  It's too deep for that.  Unless the stone was hacked out to a certain depth first.  I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here Abe.

It does look more and more to me like the result of heat however.  We know that heat does this.  We don't know that chemical does.  We also don't know that they had the quantity of any chemical to carry out burning to this degree.

Another smoking gun.

I refer you again to Nova, where J P Protzen replicates just this type of joint. From 2:00:

http://www.videopedi...ire-Part-3-of-6

[the L]

Abramelin, on 04 January 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

- No, I'm not a hacker. Whatever made you think that? I know my way around on the internet, yes, but that's about it.

- No, I haven't found that Arabian scifi story. Most probably you'll have to google using Arabic. Good luck with that.

I agree its impossible to find it. But I was thinking that you with your special searching skills would have better chance. Why I thought you are hacker? Well I didnt think you are hacker, hacker. Just that beside your work or else (such as history interests) that you have amazing searching skills. You presented that skill numerous time. Not just that you always find right thing but in a unbelivble short time period. You are fast.
So, I concluded that you are in way special with your skills and I asked a question.
Because of your skill you could search job in Lotto.nl  
If they have had beting on football,basketball and similar. They search for people who are fast in searching history about certain events, news about some certain events to set up cours. But beside internet skill you have you must have knowledge in history of sport and sport in general.
So...If you ever make career of it and start earning millions remember me.

Abramelin, on 04 January 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

I have not given up, despite The L saying we will never find it.

I feel horrible now. Please dont my judgement stop you in anything. I would be very happy if you find it.
I do hope you will find it. Just my pessimistic note there. Me out of order there. Sorry.

[zoser]

Oniomancer, on 04 January 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I refer you again to Nova, where J P Protzen replicates just this type of joint. From 2:00:

http://www.videopedi...ire-Part-3-of-6

Oh dear Mr O.  I took a look at some poor wag bashing a block with a lump of granite. Why is that relevant?

How can the sinking in be possibly explained.

The last few posts prove beyond doubt that the conventional theories are utter nonsense.  If you can't see it from these last few posts then you will never see it.

Plus the joins in Peru are infinitely better than the poor efforts of the pounding man.

Edited by zoser, 04 January 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[Oniomancer]

zoser, on 04 January 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

Why they were left in this state with mould marks I have no idea.  Maybe it just didn't matter at Sacsayhuaman.  The Cuzco walls are nearly perfect with just the odd blemish.

...until you look up, and start seeing lugs on the highest blocks.

Quote

The marks are what they are regardless.

Therein lies the question.

Notice too nearly all the lugs and indentations are located at the edges of the blocks, exactly where you would need to get ahold of them.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

zoser, on 04 January 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

Not convincing. Try putting a 100 tonne block in an oven.

You say "in an oven" I say "build a great big fire around".

Quote

No evidence that they had chemicals to soften rock never mind penetrate that depth in the rock.

Hasn't the topic of conversation for the last few pages been about rock softening chemicals from plants?