11638 replies to this topic

[Otharus]

One of the most beautiful fragments of the OLB:

[093/13]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THET ÔTHERA SKRIFT. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ .
FIFTIAN MONATHA NÉI THÉRE LERSTE ACHT.
WÉR ET FRJUNSKIP JEFTHA WINNE MÔNATH.
ALLERA MÀNNELIK JEF TO AN MERY FRU ÀND BLÍDE
ÀND NINMAN NÉDE DIGER THAN TO ÁKANE SINA NOCHT.
THACH VVR.ALDA WILDVS WÍSA
THÀT WÁKENDOM NAVT VRGAMLATH WRDE NE MÉI.
~ ~ ~
TO MIDNE FONET FÉST-FÍRJA
KÉM NÉVIL TO HULLANDE VSA VVRDA IN THIKKE THJUSTERNISE.
NOCHT RUNDE WÉI.
THA WÁKENDOM NILDE NAVT NE KÉRA.
~
THA STRANDWÁKAR WÉRON FON HJARA NÉD-FJURA HLÁPEN.
AND VPPA THA TO PÁDUM NAS NÉNEN TO BISJA.
~ .
THÁ NÉVIL EWÉI TÁCH
LOKTE SVNNE THRVCH THA RÉTA THÉRA WOLKUM VP JRTHA.
ALREK KÉM WITHER UT.
TO JUWGANDE ÀND TO JOLANDE.
THET JUNGK-FOLK TÁCH SJONGANDE MITHA GÜRBÁM
ÀND THISSE OVER-FULDE LUFT MITH SINA LIAFLIKA ÁDAM.
MEN THAHWILA THÉR ALREK IN NOCHT BÁJADE WAS VRRÉD LÁND.
MITH HORSUM AND RIDDERUM.
~ .
LIK ALLE ÀRGA WÉRON HJA HELPEN THRVCH THJUSTERNISSE.
ÀND HINNE GLUPATH THRVCH LINDA-WALD.IS PÁDA.

~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ -

NÉVIL
Ottema: nevel
Sandbach: fog

mist, cloud, fog

nifl - oldnorse
nevil - oldfrisian (Richthofen, 1840)
nebbal - oldsaxon

nevel - dutch
newel - afrikaans
niwl - welsch
nebel - german
niebla - spanish
névoa - portuguese
nebbia - italian

νεφέλη - greek
nebula - latin (cloud)
nuvola - italian
nube - spanish
nuvem - portuguese
núvol - catalan

~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ -

The German Nibelungen — with the corresponding Old Norse form Niflung (Niflungr) — is the name in Germanic and Norse mythology of the royal family or lineage of the Burgundians who settled in the early 5th century at Worms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibelung

The Nephilim (plural) are the offspring of the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" in Genesis 6:4, or giants who inhabit Canaan in Numbers 13:33. A similar word with different vowel-sounds is used in Ezekiel 32:27 to refer to dead Philistine warriors.
Etymology
"Nephilim" (נְפִילִים) probably derives from the Hebrew root npl (נָפַל), "to fall" which also includes "to cause to fall" and "to kill, to ruin". The Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon gives the meaning as "giants" Robert Baker Girdlestone argued the word comes from the Hiphil causative stem. Adam Clarke took it as passive, "fallen", "apostates". Ronald Hendel states that it is a passive form "ones who have fallen", equivalent grammatically to paqid "one who is appointed" (i.e. overseer), asir, "one who is bound", (i.e. prisoner) etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

"probably"?
I don't think so!

~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ -

Remember that the Greek priests who deified Minerva, and created a mythology around her, told the people that God had sent her on a cloud?



... prepare for one of the best otharisms so far.

Edited by Otharus, 14 April 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[Abramelin]

Ever heard of "Indo-European"??

There are words in most European languages that are very old.

We - Dutch, Belgiums, Brittish, Irish, Germans, French, Slavs, Italians, Greeks, Iranians, Indians, and so on split off from a 'mother' branch. And the origin of IE was somewhere between or north of the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 14 April 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Ever heard of "Indo-European"??

You don't get it, ey?

niflung - neveling - nephilim ('giants')

nothing aliens or sons of the gods, just some tall people from the foggy north

Edited by Otharus, 14 April 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 14 April 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

You don't get it, ey?

niflung - neveling - nephilim ('giants')

nothing aliens or sons of the gods, just some tall people from the foggy north

I got it, and it's bull.

You will have to prove first that Frisians/Nordics spoke like you think they spoke, thousands of years ago.

The OLB is not anything near proof.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 15 April 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

I got it, and it's bull.

No you didn't, and no it isn't.

Quote

You will have to prove first that Frisians/Nordics spoke like you think they spoke, thousands of years ago.

Why, I showed that N*V*L / N*F*L / N*B*L words mean fog, mist, cloud in many (including very old) languages, and it makes more sense than the Hebrew "fallen", which is doubted to be the true meaning anyway. The consequences of this other meaning, if I'm right, are HUGE. It is worth thinking about it longer, than just a few nightly hours.

Quote

The OLB is not anything near proof.

I don't even need the OLB as proof.
It just inspired me to this revolutionary thought.

You feel insulted or something?
I didn't have the impression that you were a bible-worshipper, but it will probably be deeply rooted in your subconscious LOL.

I respect that your mind doesn't work the same way as mine.
But I hope you can imagine, that not everything that you don't immediately understand, has to be nonsense.

Edited by Otharus, 15 April 2012 - 06:29 AM.

[Otharus]

Otharus, on 15 April 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

I didn't have the impression that you were a bible-worshipper...

And even if you were, you should be curious of its true meaning, not just of the existing man-made interpretations.

Is it the pride of your Juweish roots that makes you want to believe that bible mythology is older?

Edited by Otharus, 15 April 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[Otharus]

Of course I'm not suggesting that the 'Nephilim' from the bible are the Niflungen from the Edda, or the Nibelungen from the 'Nibelungenlied'.

Only that it has the same meaning;
Dutch: "nevelingen"; people from the mist, fog, cloud(s)

Rather than "fallen ones", which is not more than a hypothesis, but loads of people base their belief that they were aliens on it ('those who fell from heaven').

And that it makes more sense that they were just tall people from the North (just like the 'giants' and 'gods' of Roman and Greek mythology), than that they were supernatural giants, aliens or sons of god.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 15 April 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

No you didn't, and no it isn't.


Why, I showed that N*V*L / N*F*L / N*B*L words mean fog, mist, cloud in many (including very old) languages, and it makes more sense than the Hebrew "fallen", which is doubted to be the true meaning anyway. The consequences of this other meaning, if I'm right, are HUGE. It is worth thinking about it longer, than just a few nightly hours.


I don't even need the OLB as proof.
It just inspired me to this revolutionary thought.

You feel insulted or something?
I didn't have the impression that you were a bible-worshipper, but it will probably be deeply rooted in your subconscious LOL.

I respect that your mind doesn't work the same way as mine.
But I hope you can imagine, that not everything that you don't immediately understand, has to be nonsense.

Heh, why should I be insulted?

And I don't think the European "NFL/NBL" has anything to do with those 'Nephilim'.

And then again, what has the Bible to do with what I said??

You come to conclusions about me like you come to conclusions about language...

But if there is any connection to Semitic in European languages, it most probably originated with the Phoenicians.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 April 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 15 April 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

And even if you were, you should be curious of its true meaning, not just of the existing man-made interpretations.

Is it the pride of your Juweish roots that makes you want to believe that bible mythology is older?

You haven't read what I said a long time ago, I assume.

My roots are: Dutch, German, Basque, Russian-Jewish. Half of Europe added to my genes, lol. Add to that a haeavy load of Frisian, and you should know you are barking up the wrong tree.

Personally I vote for the Bsques as having one of the oldest traditions and language, but not like Puzz is doing in her thread about Trojans/Basques.

[Otharus]

I know that I sometimes need some time to make my point, that what I try to say is not always immediately clear to others.

It's not nice when you immediately say that it is "bull", when you don't agree, or don't understand yet.

I interpret that as you being anoyed or otherwise negative.

But I admit there was some teasing (back) in my reply.

Seriously, I don't think the idea that nephil might be related to the word for fog/mist/cloud is nonsense.

If you think it is, please explain why.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 15 April 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Of course I'm not suggesting that the 'Nephilim' from the bible are the Niflungen from the Edda, or the Nibelungen from the 'Nibelungenlied'.

Only that it has the same meaning;
Dutch: "nevelingen"; people from the mist, fog, cloud(s)

Rather than "fallen ones", which is not more than a hypothesis, but loads of people base their belief that they were aliens on it ('those who fell from heaven').

And that it makes more sense that they were just tall people from the North (just like the 'giants' and 'gods' of Roman and Greek mythology), than that they were supernatural giants, aliens or sons of god.

'Nephilim' is a Hebrew/Semitic word and is not an Indo-Euopean word. Whoever tries to prove that the European NBL/NVL words originate in some Semitic language forgets Semitic is non-IE.

http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/nevel

I believe that through the Phoenicians many Semitic words slipped into European languages, but not that it (or another Semitic language) forms the basis of European languages.

=

Maybe you have been thinking about the etymologies I posted about 'Nehalennia' of which one was based on Phoenician (nahal + aniah, together forming something like 'to guide boats'). But that was just one etymology: others are based on Celtic, German, and once I even fabricated an 'etymology' based on Finnish ("Maalähelläjään" or "Land near ice", which would once have been an appropriate name for Doggerland).



.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 April 2012 - 01:00 PM.

[Otharus]

Otharus, on 14 April 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Naphtali
  (Redirected from Nephthalim)
According to the Book of Genesis, Naphtali ( /ˈnæftəlaɪ/; Hebrew: נַפְתָּלִי, Modern Naftali Tiberian Nap̄tālî ; "My struggle") was the second son of Jacob with Bilhah. (wiki) Greek: Nefthal(e)ím

~ ~ ~

Nephele
Punishment of Ixion: Nephele sitting at Mercury's feet. Roman fresco in Pompeii.
In Greek mythology, Nephele (Greek: Νεφέλη, from νέφος nephos "cloud"; Latinized to Nubes) was a cloud nymph who figured prominently in the story of Phrixus and Helle. (wiki)

Just thinking out loud...

Nef-thalim
Nef-ele
Nef-tunis

=> all descendants from the 'Nef-ilim' or 'Nefil-im'??
=> nef, nep, naf, nap = relative, cousin, grandchild, kinsmen??

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 15 April 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

'Nephilim' is a Hebrew/Semitic word and is not an Indo-Euopean word.

Do you know the context in which the word is used in the bible?

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 15 April 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Do you know the context in which the word is used in the bible?

Read it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

But I'll bet there are others here who 'know' a lot about those Nephilim (think Sitchin and Von Däniken).

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 15 April 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Read it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

Of course I read that, I even read the bible fragments in various translations, but I asked if YOU knew.

I didn't get the impression.

It's very well possible the word they used didn't originate from their own language.