Is religion dangerous?

[whoa182]

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2004/12/...1230_a_main.asp

You can listen by going to that link and clicking on WINDOWS ( MP) or real player or quicktime format

Is religion "ignorance with wings?" That's what author Sam Harris claims in his new book, "The End of Faith." He sets out to close the door on organized religion and argues for a world without Christianity, Islam or Judaism.

As religious wars and faith-based politics heat up around the world, Harris writes that text-based faiths are responsible for the problems. He says it's time for God, Jesus and Muhammed to go the way of Zeus.

Tune in to hear Harris and prominent theologian Dr. Martin Marty talk about the impact and future of religion.

Check out this, he was on a talk show discussing this subject. its quite interesting !

Edited December 31, 2004 by whoa182

[by-product of evolution]

Whaow! Thanks for the source. Very interesting!

Religions certainly have bad consequences on the security of the planet. But people are so indoctrinated that there can only be a small rate of decrease in these kinds of beliefs. The rate of believers in God in the USA was 95% in 1981 and is now at 86%. The decline might continue at this rate of 10% per 25 years or something like that.

[eveningsky339]

I think only Islam is dangerous. Mohammed himself conquered cities. And Islam was spread through North Africa with the Muslims using a technique similar to this: "Convert to Islam or we'll cut your head off." And those Muslim b******* crashed two airplanes into the world trade centers why? Osama Bin Laden said America and her allies will suffer no more attacks if they all convert to Islam. What kind of mother****er kills thousands of innocent people just to spread their religion which, as my research has shown, isn't even true?

And besides, if religion is dangerous, I guess we'll all just have to kill ourselves. Athiesm is a religion. Who says you need a deity in order to have a religion?

Always remember 9/11!!!

http://snopes.com/rumors/cross.htm

[by-product of evolution]

Hi eveningsky, can you demonstrate that atheism is a religion?!

[BurnSide]

Religion is belief in a devine entity. Athiesm is in no way a religion. Saying so it's pretty dumb, and it shows that people don't even have an idea of what religion is.

*shakes head* They're just getting dumber really.

Interesting picture, btw. Does that suggest that it's gods will that all those people died? I'd definately say in that aspect that religion i'd dangerous!!

[whoa182]

I mean when you have George bush saying GOD told him to go after terrorists and then you got bin laden saying that God told him to go kill the U.S invaders.

We have a problem.

[BurnSide]

hahah. God obviously loves making people kill each other.

[aquatus1]

A religion can also be considered a dedication to some ultimate ideal, for instance, the samurai and their code of honor. Atheism, lacking both a deity and an ultimate ideal, fails to meet the definition of religion.

[FreyKade]

I think only Islam is dangerous.  Mohammed himself conquered cities.  And Islam was spread through North Africa with the Muslims using a technique similar to this: "Convert to Islam or we'll cut your head off."  And those Muslim b******* crashed two airplanes into the world trade centers why?  Osama Bin Laden said America and her allies will suffer no more attacks if they all convert to Islam.  What kind of mother****er kills thousands of innocent people just to spread their religion which, as my research has shown, isn't even true?

And besides, if religion is dangerous, I guess we'll all just have to kill ourselves.  Athiesm is a religion.  Who says you need a deity in order to have a religion?

Always remember 9/11!!!

http://snopes.com/rumors/cross.htm

430818[/snapback]

the spanish inquistion had nothing to do with christianity at all .....did it eveningsky339

the witch hunts had nothing to do with christianity at all..... did it eveningsky339

[Dando Kast]

There's a big difference between being religious and being spiritual.

[Dando Kast]

I think only Islam is dangerous.  Mohammed himself conquered cities.  And Islam was spread through North Africa with the Muslims using a technique similar to this: "Convert to Islam or we'll cut your head off."  And those Muslim b******* crashed two airplanes into the world trade centers why?  Osama Bin Laden said America and her allies will suffer no more attacks if they all convert to Islam.  What kind of mother****er kills thousands of innocent people just to spread their religion which, as my research has shown, isn't even true?

And besides, if religion is dangerous, I guess we'll all just have to kill ourselves.  Athiesm is a religion.  Who says you need a deity in order to have a religion?

Always remember 9/11!!!

http://snopes.com/rumors/cross.htm

430818[/snapback]

the spanish inquistion had nothing to do with christianity at all .....did it eveningsky339

the witch hunts had nothing to do with christianity at all..... did it eveningsky339

430923[/snapback]

Don'r forget about the crusades!

[saucy]

men and governments have been trying to get rid of religion...since there was religion. That b****** will lose his battle just like every other loser who has tried to end religion. I'm defiant enough to get into his face and preach the gospel if it comes down to it and there are preachers more daring than I. Good-luck a**hole!

[whoa182]

That wasnt ontopic saucy. The thread is about is religion dangerous. History and present has told us. yes it is

[Stellar]

Organised religion is stupid IMO. It limits peoples beliefs because they're constantly being told what to believe and which interpretation of their holy book is right and which is wrong. I find it completely pointless IMO. (Organised religion, not religion in general)

think only Islam is dangerous. Mohammed himself conquered cities. And Islam was spread through North Africa with the Muslims using a technique similar to this: "Convert to Islam or we'll cut your head off."

Im sorry, but I guess you're forgetting when the biblical god flooded the earth, killed people, promoted slavery and the inferiority of women, gave orders to destroy other religions and kill non believers... For a long time, and still today, people are using YOUR religion to kill people also... people like the KKK and in the recent past, the missionaries tasked to convert the natives or they will be punished...

And those Muslim b******* crashed two airplanes into the world trade centers why? Osama Bin Laden said America and her allies will suffer no more attacks if they all convert to Islam. What kind of mother****er kills thousands of innocent people just to spread their religion which, as my research has shown, isn't even true?

Same kinds of people that go around punishing others cuz they dont fit their beliefs... like the KKK, active anti-gay fanatics... you know, the ones using the bible?

And besides, if religion is dangerous, I guess we'll all just have to kill ourselves. Athiesm is a religion. Who says you need a deity in order to have a religion?

The dictionary:

re·li·gion Audio pronunciation of "religion" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)

n.

1.

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

men and governments have been trying to get rid of religion...since there was religion.

No, actually they've been trying to use it to gain power.

men and governments have been trying to get rid of religion...since there was religion. That b****** will lose his battle just like every other loser who has tried to end religion. I'm defiant enough to get into his face and preach the gospel if it comes down to it and there are preachers more daring than I. Good-luck a**hole!

Hmm, maybe religion is dangerous afterall? Suddenly, a seperation of church and state p***es off saucy so much it looks like he's gonna go kill someone.

[saucy]

How many fu*king threads do we need about the evil empire of religion? Most of you non-religious people here have obviously never walked into a christian church. By the look of it, you all assume every church across the world has KKK members up front and preachers screaming for us to hate and the crowd has their semi-automatic weapons up in the air as we plan our next bank heist or suicide bombing. I'll tell you what Christians do and I have been in churches in Texas and Michigan. We keep up a little earlier on Sunday morning, dress up nice, some do, I don't. We get into our vehicles, drive to our church, walk in, greet our pastors and friends, we go and find a seat. We sit, talk for a few minutes, then we stand and sing a few songs. After about four songs, we sit back down. The collection plates are passed. We pray, then the pastor gets up and preaches. Some pastors stand behind the podium, but mine does not because he has ADHD and is wired. Once he is done preaching, we pray again and leave. That's it. Nobody has a gun to our heads making us tithe, no violent shouts of hate or oppression; we don't go out and surround cars at a red light and make sure they go to church. If you want to go to church, you go. If you don't, you don't. There's nothing more to it than that. The pastor's lessons involves the teachings of Christ, maybe some life lessons and biblical history. Catholics do things differently, but not much. There's is nothing dangerous about this!

[Wings of Selkhet]

I wrote an essay on what separates a dangerous religion from a peaceful one. I'll post some of it:

Spotting a harmful religion is simple - religions that devalue the personal relationship between divinity and believer and instead focus on the relationships of those around the believer with divinity have been the cause of most religious conflict. Religions that require one to focus on the personal beliefs of others are dangerous. A constant obsession with the conversion and salvation of others will eventually lead to dissatisfaction and anger when others refuse to accept a specific doctrine (which will obviously always occur). Dangerous, dogmatic religions evolve from a serious mutation of the concept of a personal relationship with divinity. As soon as a religion begins to focus on the salvation of all, not just the individual, beliefs clash and warfare erupts. Thus, the following train of thought is produced: "My way is the only way to salvation. I care about those around me, so I must help them also achieve salvation. If they do not accept my doctrine, they will not be saved." In order to avoid such ideas, one must in essence be as selfish as possible - it is unnecessary to be concerned with the salvation of others. If there is in fact only one true way to salvation, they will find it on their own.

The true purpose of religion is to provide a path to enlightenment for the individual. If an agreement can be reached that personal "salvation" (I use the term loosely; it does not only apply to the Christian concept), and not the conversion of the community, should be the only goal of religion, it is then that reason and any religious doctrine emphasizing a personal and private relationship with divinity can actually be combined.

I will share with you the story of an anonymous acquaintance of mine - we shall call her Jane. During winter holiday, her sister became ill. The hospital in Florida told her family that she had the flu. When they returned to Chicago, they discovered that she in fact had developed appendicitis in Florida and that her appendix had burst 3 days prior. She had a severe abdominal infection and needed emergency surgery immediately. She was on the brink of death for 3 months. Jane found that the only way she could survive the crisis was through faith in a higher power. While for some of us this may seem ridiculous, it prevented her from breaking down. We are quick to judge her as weak and dependent upon archaic ideas. However, in the end, she came out of the situation happy and satisfied with her life. Her religion was used as a personal crutch of sorts and when she could walk again, she no longer depended on it. In times of crisis, some individuals simply cannot rely on logic for emotional support. Are we to deny them this support? Are we to let them fall because their beliefs are not t logical by our standards?

Jane’s religion was not used to judge, scorn, harass, or convert others. It was used for a purely private situation. This is a perfect demonstration of the ideal religion: one used for personal support and not concerned with the well-being of others. We should be concerned with the well-being of others regardless of religion. Her means of achieving happiness may be very different from another’s, but they are still just as valid. It is thusly against the philosophy of Objectivism to claim that all religions other than atheism are foolish. Jane’s religion in no way impaired her reason or her life. It uplifted her and allowed her to escape depression in a time of great crisis. If any religion allows an individual to pursue ultimate happiness without harming others or the self, then it is both rude and illogical to condemn it. We cannot decide what should make someone happy. While atheism may sustain some of us, some need to believe in a higher power watching over them.

Edited December 31, 2004 by Wings of Selkhet

[Stellar]

By the look of it, you all assume every church across the world has KKK members up front and preachers screaming for us to hate and the crowd has their semi-automatic weapons up in the air as we plan our next bank heist or suicide bombing.

No, I dont think anyone does. I think more people feel that if they went to a mosque they'd see Al Qaida screaming.

Somehow it seems that people shoudl be allowed to point out how "violent" islam is because of Al Qaida, yet we shouldnt be allowed to mention the KKK or any christian association...

[saucy]

Yeah, well screw you Stellar! KKK is not a Christian organization. They breed hate and violence and ANYONE who lives by that credo is not Christian. You'e stereotypical view of what we think. You can't sit there behind your computer and pretend to know what Christians think. You have no idea. We embrace Jesus' teachings. There is no hate in a Christian's heart.

[yawichild]

Religion itself is not dangerous. The perversion of religion by people who use it for there own gain is dangerous. todays christian is peace loving and harms no one!

[Stellar]

Yeah, well screw you Stellar! angry.gif KKK is not a Christian organization. They breed hate and violence and ANYONE who lives by that credo is not Christian.

Its as much a christian organisation as Al Qaida is an Islamic one! You want to say KKK is not really a christian organization, they just call themselves one? Fine, but you have to say the same about Al Qaida, other wise you're being hypocritical.

You'e stereotypical view of what we think. You can't sit there behind your computer and pretend to know what Christians think. You have no idea. We embrace Jesus' teachings. There is no hate in a Christian's heart.

And you're saying there is hate in muslim's hearts?

Why why, being a bit hypocritical arent you, saucy?

[ThePortal]

dont get angry saucy....

I know what you mean tought...every religion at hearth is a path of love and wisdom.....

BUT....why would religion let anyone uses its name to gain power trought trickery, HOW can any religion let any nation use the word GOD to make they war okay......

if the Chruch or any other religion stay silent under these things...then they have to there part of the responsibility.

When God name is brought up, it is automaticaly link toward the religion of that place. if people use its name for evil and the religion sits back saying nothing....then for us they are accomplice.....plain and simple.

If Bush said God told him to stop irak, so I'll wage war on them....who would question is word. God must have spoken to him. (I dont think so...but thats not the point) Then if Christianity did not wish to have that on there mind...it was your responsibility to go public and say NO GOD DOES NOT WANT SUCH THINGS....but they just stayed silent...

As to answer the main question. I do not personnaly think religion are dangerous. At heart like I said before they are teachings and faith based on love and wisdom. PEOPLE are dangerous, power hungry souls. They will take anything to gain power, soil even genuine good teachings. Even some religious people do it...

I always tought that extreme are dangourous....

Wings of Selkhet, I agree completly with your posting.

[Neosypher]

Religion is like beauty. Its in the eye of the beholder, how one would perceive such a thing.

All people Islamic and Christian of todays educated society are good people, as we know there are extremists such as al qaeda that is condemned by all islamic leaders and the KKK that is condemed by Church Leaders.

[RaginCajun]

eveningsky339 and saucy:

you sound so full of hate and disgust me. PLEASE READ BELOW:

in the case of 339, you make it seems that muslims are evil...what about the catholic church's priests molesting boys??? I WONDER IF A MODERATOR IS READING THROUGH THESE NEGATIVE AND HATEFUL VIEWS...please look at your words...i would be threatened if someone spoke or wrote to me like that...so would many people too...

i write;

this further strenghten what i said in a previous thread:

different beliefs stir up hate, crime, and excessive use of bad language (evident in reading posts on here).

but there is an unmistakable fact; no one can seriously deny it. there are people that follow there religion so blindly with fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one.

TO ANYONE READING THIS: GIVE ME FACTS AND NOT ANGRY WORDS BASED ON BELIEFE OR STEROTYPE. (I WILL NOT RESPECT YOUR VIEWS)

Edited January 1, 2005 by RaginCajun

[by-product of evolution]

Yes Cajun, I find religious people often being not respectful towards women, gays and others races for instance.

[saucy]

See, Stellar is putting words in my mouth. I dare anyone to find any statement I've ever said that I think all muslims are evil or bad. How can I be hypocritical when I've never said it! But you will find many examples where I said I love all people, so good will towards men, have many friends that are women, gay, muslim, black, Jewish and even a Wiccan. I don't hate people. Hate is not in my heart and never has been. I don't know much about the Islamic religion. Doesn't it say in there to behead infadels and kill those who don't agree with their religion? I'm not sure, but it's what I've heard. If it is in the Koran to do those things, then yes Al Qadea is following the rules of their religion and is accurately supporting hate and terrorism and is an Islamic organization. Nowhere in the Christian bible does Jesus teach about hate and murder. He teaches love. The KKK does not follow those teachings. They can't be true followers of Christ if they promote things that Christ was not a part of. In part, the KKK follows the credo of Adolf Hitler, toting his swastika, making the hand hands, etc...

See Stellar, even you I love dearly...