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the trojan war...myth or real


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#1    nick_fury

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 11:29 AM

I would just like to know peoples opinions on the famous trojan war. I t is known for a fact that the city of illium in troy did exist, and was sacked by the greeks in a mighty war, but how much of Homer's epic tale do you believe is really true? was there really an achilles and a hector? was it really fought over a woman? and did the famous wooden horse exist in any capacity? what do you think
I personally would love to believe the whole story is true but somewhat doubt it


#2    Mad Manfred

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 11:34 AM

There is a difference between myth and fiction.

The Trojan War is simply fiction. An ancient novel written by an old storyteller.

Unlike most myths (Heracles, Thor, Tazcatlipoca, etc) I don't think this is based on actual events.


#3    Falco Rex

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 11:34 AM

I don't think too much of Homers' tale is literally true. There may have been an Achilles or a Hector I suppose, but we'll never know nowadays. The war was far more likely to have been fought over access to black sea ports and trading rights than it was over Helen; although some sort of political marriage gone wrong may well have occured..
The Trojan horse I tend to doubt existed. It reeks of a literary device to me..
There is a rather long thread about the Trojan Horse in the Ancient Mysteries section.  If you want to read every possible thought on it; you'll probably find it there..


#4    Hoopoe

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 01:50 PM


The facts the war of Troya are based upon are very anterior to the first notice we've got of the legend. Experts believe there was a more ancient legend which was the base of the latter Greek legends, since there are parallelisms with other Indoeuropean cultures' myths such as Celtic.
The fact is that Ilion could well have been an important city, in the sense that it had an good situation in terms of naval commerce and routes. Maybe the Achaeans (or whatever they're called in English) got tired of Ilion's increasing power, maybe there were hostilities which led to an open war, but the fact is that the city was attacked and destroyed. Later it was rebuilt and people got to live in it again, but that was no problem to the peoples in Greece, who now had the power they wanted. The historical fact with the time was identified and mixed with the mentioned legend, thus giving birth to what Homer wrote down.

For example, it is believed that the walls of Troya were invulnerable because the floor level in the city was higher tan in the outside, so it was impossible to destroy it with a ram. The Achaeans then built a "high ram" which could hit the wall where it could be destroyed, and became the mythical horse through centuries of telling the story. Maybe the ram was even covered witha "roof" made of horse leather to protect the men from enemy arrows.

Anyway, if you guys are really interested you ought to read a book about the topic, that will give infinite more quality information than we can get in a forum in the inetrnet:

-M. Wood, In Search of the Trojan War (London 1985).
-R. Carpenter, Folk Tale, Fiction and Saga in the Homeric Epics (Berkeley 1946).

That's just two, do some search and you'll get more of them.


#5    marduk

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 04:52 AM

It was done in poll format in the ancient mysterues thread
heres the results
a wooden animal with troops (+ toilet facilities) inside [ 18 ]  [42.86%]
an analogy [ 3 ]                                                                [7.14%]
an annunaki armoured personnel carrier [ 4 ]                      [9.52%]
a lie written by the winners of the battle [ 4 ]                       [9.52%]
a plot piece in a literary story [ 8 ]                                      [19.05%]
you don't care [ 5 ]                                                            [11.90%]
Total Votes: 42

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=41040


so most people think the trojans are complete idiots
w00t.gif
personally i reserve that tag for those who voted for "an annunaki armoured personnel carrier "

Edited by marduk, 30 May 2005 - 04:53 AM.

Posted Image
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#6    Falco Rex

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:24 AM

That's interesting, Hoopoe. I'd never heard the theory of the "Horse" being a ram before. It makes eminent sense to me. It's one of those things that you wonder why you never thought of yourself once you've heard it.. tongue.gif
I know Homer only sang about hundreds of years after the fact, and the words of Homer weren't written down until many years after his death, so the potential for confusing events is great here..
Still; The literal wooden horse story always bothered me. I know the ancients were both more superstitious and more likely to take things as a sign from their Gods and all, but..
There was a war on, after all.
Just because they lived long ago is no reason to assume they were stupid..


#7    Mr Ed

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:28 AM

I wrote a lot about what the horse could actually have represented, e.g. an earthquake, in the thread that marduk linked here. If you want to have a look and say what you think that would be good.

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#8    Falco Rex

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:32 AM

I thought you made some pretty good points on there Mr. Ed..
I kind of lost interest when the subject moved to Indian Theater though.. tongue.gif


#9    Mr Ed

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:34 AM

ah laugh.gif, the common fascination with bollywood. I think all there was to say had been said.

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