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Jodi Arias Trial


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#241    boos2u

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 05:34 PM

View Postspayneuter, on 02 March 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I confess. When did she cut his throat, is something I haven't given much thought to.  It's an important part of the puzzle too.  I'm going to have to think about this.  The one thing that really doesn't make sense to me is why did she drag the body back into the shower?   Was there too much blood and she wanted it to go down the drain?  Why would that matter to her?
I think she was trying to let the blood drain, but then she decided to just leave a ton of blood. IMHO, she, in true princess form, decided she didn't want to clean up any more. She did a little bit and then got tired or just said "Screw this!" After stabbing and slitting and shooting and dragging, she was probably exhausted. She put him in the shower to crumple up down at the bottom. She goes about her merry way, leaving him to decompose and for his friends to find, and then she decides she needs to go cozy up with whatever man she was going to use for an alibi. She had probably worked out in her mind that she was going to lie about who committed the crime and / or that she was never there.

Edited by boos2u, 02 March 2013 - 05:35 PM.


#242    boos2u

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 05:39 PM

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

You mean to say, I'd be the problem juror!  Oh well.  lol

While the whole truth and nothing but the truth is ideal from a legal standpoint, we know full well we will never get that here from Arias.  So the strategy of focusing so much of the courtroom effort on her doesn't look very bright to me.   It must be very rare for a defendant in a trial like this to testify at all, or at the end of the trial one time.   By contrast this has turned into the Jodi Show starring Jodi Arias.

Another question for those keeping up with this case:  Where is the ex boyfriend at?  Where's the lover at that she ran to after she allegedly murdered Travis?   Getting someone like that on the stand and grilling them might make sense.

http://www.huffingto..._n_2442048.html

Done.

Edited by boos2u, 02 March 2013 - 06:10 PM.


#243    spayneuter

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:03 PM

View Postregi, on 02 March 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Re: the shower photos, it's my understanding that:
Exhibit # 159 is timestamped @ 5:29:20, showing Alexander sitting in the shower, looking toward the camera.
Exhibit # 160 is timestamped @ 5:30:30, showing Alexander still sitting, but his head/face isn't shown.
Exhibit # 161 is timestamped @ 5:31:14, is of the bathroom ceiling, and the camera appears to be either in motion, or out of focus because there's blur in the photo.
Exhibit # 162 is timestamped @ 5:32:16, shows Alexander on the floor, bleeding.
Exhibit # 163 is timestamped @ 5:33:13, shows a blood-smeared baseboard.

When I look at all of the shower photos (16 showing Alexander alive and began @ 5:22:24), I see that on average, there's 3 photos per minute, except that when we get to the 'sitting/facing, sitting head/face not shown' photos, there's over a minute between the two.

Exhibit's # 161- 163, the 'unintentional' photos, show a pattern of 1 per minute.

I would like to see all the photos taken in order (except the sex ones.  I don't want to see them again!)  Is there a web site you got this list from?  Thanks.

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#244    boos2u

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:04 PM

View Postregi, on 01 March 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

The way I look at it, the sequence doesn't matter. If she shot him first, then there's no reasonable explanation for the further injuries, and if she stabbed him first, then there's no reasonable explanation for the gunshot.
Bottom line, there's no reasonable explanation for ALL of those injuries, either way.

Totally agree, regi. Overkill at its finest. A jealous, psychotic frenzy from a woman who lives in her own little world and believes she does not have to be accountable for her own actions. If there was any truth at all to the self defense crap (doubtful) she could have stabbed him, say, 15 times and then when he was down, run like the wind. AND call the police. But no, left him dead and decomposing and thinking she could just say, "I wasn't there."
Autopsy report: http://cnninsession....avisautopsy.pdf
Dr. Horn testified that he believed the gunshot was after death. Maybe Arias didn't realise he was already dead and was tired of waiting for him to die and shot him. Maybe she had already decided on version 1 with version 2 as a backup and thought the gunshot was needed for her stories. She is either to stupid to realize that law enforcement can figure this stuff out or thinks she can get away with anything.

Edited by boos2u, 02 March 2013 - 06:08 PM.


#245    spayneuter

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

View Postboos2u, on 02 March 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Maybe she didn't do it all at one time. Maybe some in the hallway, some in the bathroom. A little stabbing here, a little over there. Like a cat playing with its prey. It seems she didn't feel like she was going to run out of time. She stayed after the killing to put stuff in the washer, clean herself up, etc. Even so she must have felt at some time that he was not dying fast enough and slit his throat. It would have been easy for her to do if he was laying on the floor.

OMG.   That would take it out of the realm of "rage killing"  and into cold premeditated torture/murder.   She would be taunting him all the while.

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#246    Vincennes

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

I didn't see any response to

View Postregi, on 21 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

The victim's body is the evidence. Those injuries can't be disputed and they don't occur in any other way but in a rage.
That's what rage looks like on a murder victim's body. That's not self defense, no way, no how.Reading through this discussion, I see a lot of comments regarding "what indicates rage." I read a book a while bak regarding a rage killing in which forty-nine stabs had been delivered. The author requested that the reader take a pillow, stand above it and give it forty-nine full force blows. I think I made it to twelve. OK. add anger... might take you to five more blows before a normal person is really tired. In this case, although not all of the blows were received full-force, even if you buy the defense theory, that she was frightened, would mean the were delivered with full force.. It would take rage to reach twenty-nine and then shoot, drag, position, wash up, etc.



#247    regi

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 02 March 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Regi what do you think? between the time that Travis was alive in the photos at the time of 5:29:20, to the time of 5:32:16 when he was being dragged by Jodi on the hallway floor bleeding, would  it have been enough time for all that Jodi did to kill Tarvis?

Well, first off, I think a minute can be a long time, and that a lot can happen within a single minute.

There's almost a full two minutes between the 'sitting, no head/face' photo in the shower, and the photo of Alexander bleeding on the floor, so I certainly think he could have been out of the shower and in the sink area, shot, (high velocity blood pattern on sink) and then have his body on the floor within the time of those photos.
(all speculation, of course.)

It appears to me that the 5:32:16 (Alexander on the floor, bleeding) photo was taken in the bathroom....and that the camera was never ever out of that bathroom area.
I know there's a question about the casing in the pool of blood which seems to indicate that the blood was there before the casing, but since I know the scene was tampered with, I don't wonder if it could have gotten there some other way.

I'm still studying and contemplating what the scene shows (to me, of course) as far as how events might have precisely occurred.

Edited by regi, 02 March 2013 - 07:07 PM.


#248    Vincennes

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:07 PM

With regard to the previous discussion on "rage" killing.  I read a book a while back in which there had been 49 forceful  stabs delivered.  The author suggested that you take a pillow place it beneath you and deliver full force stabs to it..  I think I made it to 12. (and the pillow wasn't moving!)   Try it,~~~~it is totally exhausitng.  OK,  add the influence of normal anger.. brings you up to maybe 18-20. The number of blows you can deliver is much lower than you would think!  That's where "rage" becomes identifiable.  After that she shot, dragged, placed a body larger than hers in the shower and cleaned up somewhat ??   What you are left with is multiple killers or.... the rage of the insane.  With, a good look at Jodi throughout the trial, I will go with the later ~~  The rage of the insane.

Oh, the book was written by F. L. Bailey, atty for Dr Sam Shepherd.  Who, as Bailey believed, was later proved innocent.  His wife had been killed by a stalking type killer  who was insane.  I knew from the time I took that test, no normal person could deliver 49 blows.


#249    regi

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:07 PM

View Postboos2u, on 02 March 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

http://www.huffingto..._n_2387245.html

So, looks like Nurmi was just in a pool of public defenders. Maybe a pool of sex crime public defenders. So that means Arizona is paying for him. If he specializes in sex crimes, then he probably thinks all crimes have some basis in sex. Like an electrician walking into some place and immediately seeing all the electrical setups.


:lol: I'm sure there's a lot of truth in that....

(First, it's great to see you back, booz2u! :clap: I thought you must have thrown up your hands in complete exasperation...Lord knows, I have a time or two, but I didn't lose hope that you'd be back!)
I guess Lotus is gone for good....

Thanks for that info. :tu: I didn't know any of that, and wow, it's certainly interesting. Only a tough defendant who wants/needs total control would attempt to defend themselves, especially in a case like this!
I thought that was just crazy-weird, that Nurmi's specialty is actually defending sex charges! :td: I mean, I know innocent people are sometimes accused and need defense, but to SPECIALIZE in such a thing? :hmm:

Anyway, I didn't think that Arias could have afforded a private attn.
(Btw, I was looking at the police photos from the burglary and noticing the contrast between Alexander's lifestyle and Arias' living situation. It's quite the contrast, not only in the physical environment, but that Alexander was on his own and self supporting, had a good job...direction in his life...you know, just everything in his life was in direct contrast to Arias'.... including their sexual experience according to the sex tape.
Well, there's tons of points that could be made about that tape which totally contradict Arias' all of Arias' allegations against Alexander, and I could go on and on about them, so I'd better save them for another post! :lol: )

Edited by regi, 02 March 2013 - 08:28 PM.


#250    regi

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:34 PM

View Postspayneuter, on 02 March 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

I would like to see all the photos taken in order (except the sex ones.  I don't want to see them again!)  Is there a web site you got this list from?  Thanks.

I found the list on:
http://www.realitychatter.com


#251    docyabut2

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

View Postregi, on 02 March 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

Well, first off, I think a minute can be a long time, and that a lot can happen within a single minute.

There's almost a full two minutes between the 'sitting, no head/face' photo in the shower, and the photo of Alexander bleeding on the floor, so I certainly think he could have been out of the shower and in the sink area, shot, (high velocity blood pattern on sink) and then have his body on the floor within the time of those photos.
(all speculation, of course.)

It appears to me that the 5:32:16 (Alexander on the floor, bleeding) photo was taken in the bathroom....and that the camera was never ever out of that bathroom area.
I know there's a question about the casing in the pool of blood which seems to indicate that the blood was there before the casing, but since I know the scene was tampered with, I don't wonder if it could have gotten there some other way.

I'm still studying and contemplating what the scene shows (to me, of course) as far as how events might have precisely occurred.

Regi if you were watching the trial thursday, the prosecuter did show another photo of Travis`s shoulder lying in blood. When he asked Jodi if  she agreed that was Travis, she said yes. What  puzzles me is how all these photos were taken, after Travis was attacked lying there bleeding. Was she also carring the camera that kept stapping the pictures with her, while she was dagging Travis body around?

Edited by docyabut2, 02 March 2013 - 08:48 PM.


#252    regi

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:01 PM

View Postspayneuter, on 02 March 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

OMG.   That would take it out of the realm of "rage killing"  and into cold premeditated torture/murder.   She would be taunting him all the while.

I've also wondered if there was taunting because those photos appear odd, and I seem to remember Arias stating that Alexander "didn't like his picture taken when he was in the shower", and I don't remember where I heard that, but still, I wonder if that could be the actual reason for those shower photos.
Consider too, that by the time those photos started, Arias had been packed up for hours, and Alexander- as far as can be determined- appeared to be gone about his day....tending to his e-mail and showering. I don't know what his plans were for the rest of the day...
Regardless of the reason for the photos, I can't think of a more vulnerable position than one in which I'm naked.

Edited by regi, 02 March 2013 - 09:12 PM.


#253    Jinxdom

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

Quote

The victim's body is the evidence. Those injuries can't be disputed and they don't occur in any other way but in a rage.
That's what rage looks like on a murder victim's body. That's not self defense, no way, no how.Reading through this discussion, I see a lot of comments regarding "what indicates rage." I read a book a while bak regarding a rage killing in which forty-nine stabs had been delivered. The author requested that the reader take a pillow, stand above it and give it forty-nine full force blows. I think I made it to twelve. OK. add anger... might take you to five more blows before a normal person is really tired. In this case, although not all of the blows were received full-force, even if you buy the defense theory, that she was frightened, would mean the were delivered with full force.. It would take rage to reach twenty-nine and then shoot, drag, position, wash up, etc.

Have you ever been picked on by somebody you couldn't fight over a long period of time.

Why are arguments with your family usually bigger?

The pillow itself didn't provoke you in any way. I could only hit the pillow once thinking what I was doing was wrong(Making the active choice to do it was a lot harder then stopping simply because I wasn't in a rage or angry at the pillow). If you could hit it 12 times...... maybe you actually have the tendency to be a sadist or some repressed anger just waiting to come out.

This is why you can tell a lot about a person when they bump in to furniture by accident. If they stub their toe on the couch and beat the living stuffing out of it you might want to reconsider being near that person when something bad happens.

Edited by Jinxdom, 02 March 2013 - 09:44 PM.


#254    spayneuter

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:54 PM

View Postregi, on 02 March 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

I found the list on:
http://www.realitychatter.com

Thank you!  Now I have to take some time to really understand the photos.  Should have done this earlier.

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#255    spayneuter

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 02 March 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Regi if you were watching the trial thursday, the prosecuter did show another photo of Travis`s shoulder lying in blood. When he asked Jodi if  she agreed that was Travis, she said yes. What  puzzles me is how all these photos were taken, after Travis was attacked lying there bleeding. Was she also carring the camera that kept stapping the pictures with her, while she was dagging Travis body around?

Is there anyway that Jodi didn't put Travis in the shower?  That he went there himself and collapsed.

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