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‘Secession is a deeply American principle’


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#46    F3SS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:14 PM

View PostWoIverine, on 20 November 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:



I think a large majority of them are probably hard workers who are tired of living in a budding welfare state.
Probably on the list of reasons of more than few seceding hopefuls. There is nothing worse than a mooch and no that doesn't mean everybody on assistance is a mooch lefties! I distance myself from moochs. They're so aggravating. I went to tech school with this dude, met him there. Somehow or another I started driving him to school with me. Moochs have a way of working themselves into good situations for themselves. He worked, I worked. I never asked the dude for a dime. One time about a year into school I was broke and asked him for $5 because I needed gas and way back in 2000 that was worth a few gallons. Anyways I never seen such a weasel. I had to pry that money from his hands with the jaws of life. He had the gall to get pssed. The rides soon stopped and he ended up playing someone else for the next year. On top of all that he was famous for bumming smokes. He always claimed he didn't really smoke but I'll be damned if he didn't get 5 free smokes a day from somebody somehow. He was so bad my friend, who happens to be the other guy who ended up driving the prick around, actually quit smoking because of that mooch. So maybe the mooch was good for something.
Sorry for the story but I can easily see wanting to secede if you felt that the entire community was full of those guys.

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#47    F3SS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

View PostHasina, on 20 November 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:


I see it being more about state rights versus federal rights, with slavery being the number one issue. Would the Civil War had happened if we didn't have slaves? Probably not, since it was the largest issue especially since it came down to human lives, but it was also about how the federal government chose who was a 'free' state and who was a 'slave' state when new states joined the Union.

In a way, today's secession movements could be viewed as an extension of both, but it's neither, it's its own thing. Anyway, as Corp pointed out, only about 1% (mostly less then that, actually it may not even be more then 1% but I'd rather play it safe) of the population of these states has signed these petitions, wants to secede. In essence, it's like neither of the others because they actually had wide spread support.

Nothing personal towards you but I just realized I have absolutely no passion about this subject ATM at least. I like what Ron Paul says but I'm definitely not in the mood to secede. I'll stand tall with the states united until there is truly no other option.

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#48    Hasina

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:24 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 20 November 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Nothing personal towards you but I just realized I have absolutely no passion about this subject ATM at least. I like what Ron Paul says but I'm definitely not in the mood to secede. I'll stand tall with the states united until there is truly no other option.
No problem and I can understand why you'd feel this way. I agree with the way you put it, no mood to secede, stay united, but if there's no other option... A good, clean summation of many people's views.

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#49    Corp

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:13 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 20 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

The revolution, at the time, would surely not have happened. Later on there might have been the one or other gripe. On the other hand there would hardly have been what we know as the USA later on either. The Louisiana purchase would have never happened because Napoleon surely would not have sold it to Britain, and with that the West expansion less than likely because it would have led through French territory. European policies (i.e. the purpose partnership between Spain and Britain against Napoleon) would have precluded the annexation of most of the West from Spain.

Well Louisiana might have been taken during the war but likely would have been treated as a separate colony and would have become it's own nation. But the British would have likely slowed expansion anyway. One of the causes of the Revolution was that the British wanted American colonialists to stop stealing Native land and starting up wars...and then demanding that the government come and save them for free. Damn colonialists leeching off the system and turning the Empire into a welfare state!

:P

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#50    questionmark

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:27 PM

View PostCorp, on 20 November 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Well Louisiana might have been taken during the war but likely would have been treated as a separate colony and would have become it's own nation. But the British would have likely slowed expansion anyway. One of the causes of the Revolution was that the British wanted American colonialists to stop stealing Native land and starting up wars...and then demanding that the government come and save them for free. Damn colonialists leeching off the system and turning the Empire into a welfare state!

:P

And damn separatist trying to make a break when there is nothing left to leach 'cause the central government is broke :devil:

Edited by questionmark, 21 November 2012 - 03:28 PM.

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#51    Corp

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:54 PM

So then if some states break off does this mean America's economy will boom and they'll take over half of Africa? :P

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#52    Drayno

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

View PostCorp, on 21 November 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

So then if some states break off does this mean America's economy will boom and they'll take over half of Africa? :P

A giant game of risk.

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#53    Startraveler

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

View PostDrayno, on 20 November 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

It remains to be seen what will happen in states that are refusing to comply with the deeply unpopular mandates of Obamacare by not setting up healthcare exchanges.  It appears the Federal government will not respect those decisions either.

That's their prerogative. States get dibs on customizing and taking responsibility for their new marketplaces but they're not required to do so. But the law provides that the state's ultimate decision doesn't deprive its residents of access to new competitive marketplaces for insurance. If states don't want to set up an exchange, the federal government will set up one for its residents.

So states aren't really deciding whether an exchange will exist or not, they're deciding whether they want to take ownership of the exchange or hand it off to the federal government. Which leads to some interesting ideological cleavages on the right between those who generally favor state authority over federal authority vs. those who dislike Obamacare so much that they advocate turning the states' exchanges over to the feds.

Edited by Startraveler, 23 November 2012 - 01:00 AM.


#54    ninjadude

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:11 AM

Star, I wish some of the "LOL another state decides not to participate in Obamacare" zealots would actually read what you wrote. I know they wont. :(

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#55    Wickian

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:39 AM

While I don't think the U.S. splitting up under any circumstances would be good in any way, the option should always be available.


#56    darkmoonlady

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:41 AM

it's all sour grapes and bu**hurt. Theoretically if you stay affiliated with one party you're going to spend segments of your life under the administration of Presidents you don't agree with. That is what America is about. You're free to leave and move to another country if you so choose or you could have some common sense and just wait for the political pendulum to swing the other way (which it always does).

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#57    acidhead

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:03 AM

View Postdarkmoonlady, on 24 November 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

it's all sour grapes and bu**hurt. Theoretically if you stay affiliated with one party you're going to spend segments of your life under the administration of Presidents you don't agree with. That is what America is about. You're free to leave and move to another country if you so choose or you could have some common sense and just wait for the political pendulum to swing the other way (which it always does).


How does that cool-aid taste?

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#58    WoIverine

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:02 AM

View Postacidhead, on 24 November 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

How does that cool-aid taste?

It could either taste like aspartame or high fructose corn syrup, with a smidgen of left right paradigm to add extra iron-y. ^_^


#59    Drayno

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:06 AM

View Postacidhead, on 24 November 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

How does that cool-aid taste?

It tastes pretty liberal.

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#60    darkmoonlady

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:03 PM

How is understanding that politics and peoples opinions sway with the years liberal and "drinking the kool-aid"? This isn't the conspiracy forum it's politics. Just like I said the political landscape changes, and a party on the downward spiral can be on the upward spiral in four or more years. The Reagan-Bush years it was 12 years of Republicans in the White House, just as with Clinton it was eight. Saying you wish to remove your state from the Union simply because you do not like who was elected President (by a voting majority btw) is sour grapes. Part of being in the US is accepting the way the political system works. I think it's completely silly that some would want to take their state completely out of the union. We settled this in the Civil War, which was the impetus for the creation of the Pledge of Allegiance and the idea of ONE NATION under god. Everyone wants to put the importance of that on the god part but really it was to get out the message that the nation would no longer be fractured and would always be a united force.

No one who is calling to secede seems to have the ability to reconcile that with the history of our country and how just plain silly their mentality is. If you don't like the direction the country is going in, work to change it. Don't just pack up your stuff and stomp off angry and want to take your state out of the union.

“The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance …or change... logic can be happily tossed out the window. Religious mania is one of the few infallible ways of responding to the worlds vagaries, because it totally eliminates pure accident. To the true religious maniac, it’s ALL on purpose” – Stephen King, The Stand




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