4017 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

Gola means "exile" in Hebrew, and I think that we must look for an explanation in some Semitic language, like Phoenician, Hebrew, or Aramaic.

Or Gola as meaning someone from Golan, a city given to the Levites: priests, people who performed religious services. The Golan Hights or just the city of Golan is near (and formerly IN) "Palm Land", Palmyra, in Phoenicia, and east of Sidon. It all fits the OLB description.

"The Gola, that's how the missionary priests of Sidon were called"

So, they came from Sidon, and the name Gola stands for a 'missonary priest'. Which is kind of strange because I didn't know that either the Phoenicians or the Hebrews sent out 'missionary priests' to convert the heathens to either Ba'al, Tanit or Yahweh.

Although there are those who do indeed think that the Celtic Beltane is derived from Ba'al Tanit:

The many contacts of the Carthaginians with Celts and Celtiberians may explain the coincidence in their religions. Baal Hammon seems to match the Celt god Bel, for example, and the great Celtic festival of Beltane, held on May 1st, may derive its name from the Carthaginian gods Baal Hammon and Tanit. The Irish word for fire, teine, is similar to the Carthaginian word tine, which was regarded as a gift from Tanit. The first of May was considered the beginning of summer, and Beltane was pronounced Bel-ti-na. There are a number of other parallels with the Celtic religion (Druid) which point to numerous contacts.

http://ancienthistor...r_carthrel4.htm

The important thing here is not whether this is true or not, but that this was already believed in in the 19th century.

The Carthaginians were strongly influenced by the Hebrew neighbors of their motherland, as can be seen in the Law of Sacrifice (dates to about 400 B.C.) which spells out the prices for different sacrifices. From this table you can see more than a passing resemblence to the Levitical institutions of Israel and some important differences.

http://ancienthistor...r_carthrel6.htm

Think "Jezebel" (as the story from the Bible, not as nickname,lol)

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 16 January 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Gola means "exile" in Hebrew, and I think that we must look for an explanation in some Semitic language, like Phoenician, Hebrew, or Aramaic.

Or Gola as meaning someone from Golan, a city given to the Levites: priests, people who performed religious services. The Golan Hights or just the city of Golan is near (and formerly IN) "Palm Land", Palmyra, in Phoenicia, and east of Sidon. It all fits the OLB description.

"The Gola, that's how the missionary priests of Sidon were called"

So, they came from Sidon, and the name Gola stands for a 'missonary priest'. Which is kind of strange because I didn't know that either the Phoenicians or the Hebrews sent out 'missionary priests' to convert the heathens to either Ba'al, Tanit or Yahweh.

Although there are those who do indeed think that the Celtic Beltane is derived from Ba'al Tanit:

The many contacts of the Carthaginians with Celts and Celtiberians may explain the coincidence in their religions. Baal Hammon seems to match the Celt god Bel, for example, and the great Celtic festival of Beltane, held on May 1st, may derive its name from the Carthaginian gods Baal Hammon and Tanit. The Irish word for fire, teine, is similar to the Carthaginian word tine, which was regarded as a gift from Tanit. The first of May was considered the beginning of summer, and Beltane was pronounced Bel-ti-na. There are a number of other parallels with the Celtic religion (Druid) which point to numerous contacts.

http://ancienthistor...r_carthrel4.htm

The important thing here is not whether this is true or not, but that this was already believed in in the 19th century.

The Carthaginians were strongly influenced by the Hebrew neighbors of their motherland, as can be seen in the Law of Sacrifice (dates to about 400 B.C.) which spells out the prices for different sacrifices. From this table you can see more than a passing resemblence to the Levitical institutions of Israel and some important differences.

http://ancienthistor...r_carthrel6.htm

Think "Jezebel" (as the story from the Bible, not as nickname,lol)

A good analysis, but do you think that the author of the OLB knew all this ? Most of what was known about the old history came from the Bible or the populat Roman and Greek sources.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 17 January 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

A good analysis, but do you think that the author of the OLB knew all this ? Most of what was known about the old history came from the Bible or the populat Roman and Greek sources.

If the one or the ones who wrote the OLB indeed were clerics or had studied theology (your Halbertsma or Jensma's HaverSchmidt) and history (like both had also studied), then they must have known of most if not all what I wrote here; it's there, in the Bible.

The Hebrews once had close ties with the Phoenicians/Canaanites, good and bad. Of course an informative talk with a Dutch rabbi would have of been of help too, but I seriously doubt they did.

The problem - like I already said - is this:

"Arrival of the Gola in Marseille is between Teunis/Woden/Inka time and Min-erva/Kalta's, or between
Teunis/MED: 2194-193= 2001 BCE.
Kalta: 2194-563=1631 BCE"

And around that time there was no Israel, or even 'Gola'. Moses wasn't even born yet (if he even existed).

But you know that I think many Biblical and historical events (like those concerning the Vikings) that have their equals in the OLB were transplanted to a 1000 years before they actually happened.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 January 2013 - 08:59 PM.

[Abramelin]

I have mentioned the Massilia Sacrifice Tablet discovered in 1844

http://archive.org/s...ge/n10/mode/1up


That translation is from 1897, but I don't know if other and earlier translations were around before this one, and available to the writers of the OLB.

But it clearly shows Phoenician religious practises resembled the Levitican ones.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 January 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 17 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

If the one or the ones who wrote the OLB indeed were clerics or had studied theology (your Halbertsma or Jensma's HaverSchmidt) and history (like both had also studied), then they must have known of most if not all what I wrote here; it's there, in the Bible.

The Hebrews once had close ties with the Phoenicians/Canaanites, good and bad. Of course an informative talk with a Dutch rabbi would have of been of help too, but I seriously doubt they did.

The problem - like I already said - is this:

"Arrival of the Gola in Marseille is between Teunis/Woden/Inka time and Min-erva/Kalta's, or between
Teunis/MED: 2194-193= 2001 BCE.
Kalta: 2194-563=1631 BCE"

And around that time there was no Israel, or even 'Gola'. Moses wasn't even born yet (if he even existed).

But you know that I think many Biblical and historical events (like those concerning the Vikings) that have their equals in the OLB were transplanted to a 1000 years before they actually happened.

.

Gola could even be a corruption of the Hebrew word godol. A word meaning high priest.

The descendants of Aaron, who was the first kohen gadol, high priest, of Israel, were designated as the priestly class, the kohanim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levites

Which is associated with the giving of Golan to the Levites.

I get your point on the dates though.

Edited by The Puzzler, 18 January 2013 - 06:13 PM.

[NO-ID-EA]

Abramelin, on 17 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

If the one or the ones who wrote the OLB indeed were clerics or had studied theology (your Halbertsma or Jensma's HaverSchmidt) and history (like both had also studied), then they must have known of most if not all what I wrote here; it's there, in the Bible.

The Hebrews once had close ties with the Phoenicians/Canaanites, good and bad. Of course an informative talk with a Dutch rabbi would have of been of help too, but I seriously doubt they did.

The problem - like I already said - is this:

"Arrival of the Gola in Marseille is between Teunis/Woden/Inka time and Min-erva/Kalta's, or between
Teunis/MED: 2194-193= 2001 BCE.
Kalta: 2194-563=1631 BCE"

And around that time there was no Israel, or even 'Gola'. Moses wasn't even born yet (if he even existed).

But you know that I think many Biblical and historical events (like those concerning the Vikings) that have their equals in the OLB were transplanted to a 1000 years before they actually happened.

.

looks like you have been reading some Fomenko chronology then Abe .... it's confusing the ........ out of me !

do we think there was a Levi , i have always wondered if this was not a tribe made up of a levy (levi) of people from the other tribes , to act as servants/attendants to the Kohanim.............always wondered too if there was a hidden meaning in the name Levi , being an anagram of Evil ??




P.S. Was also reading some Tacitus  "histories" yesterday and  noticed the couple of paragraphs talking about Valeda the prophetess , of around Civilis' time , maybe someone used that name backwards to come up with OLB prophetess Adela ??

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 18 January 2013 - 07:37 PM.

[Abramelin]

NO-ID-EA, on 18 January 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

looks like you have been reading some Fomenko chronology then Abe .... it's confusing the ........ out of me !

do we think there was a Levi , i have always wondered if this was not a tribe made up of a levy (levi) of people from the other tribes , to act as servants/attendants to the Kohanim.............always wondered too if there was a hidden meaning in the name Levi , being an anagram of Evil ??




P.S. Was also reading some Tacitus  "histories" yesterday and  noticed the couple of paragraphs talking about Valeda the prophetess , of around Civilis' time , maybe someone used that name backwards to come up with OLB prophetess Adela ??

No Fomenko for me, dr. No. Fomenko believes that much of documented history should be transplanted to much more recent times, and so on.

What I think the writers of the OLB did was intentionally transplanting events and persons from the middle ages to a thousand years before they actually took place. That was not about correcting history, that was about creating one.

-

Levi - Evil?? Evil is an English word (and not that ancient) and Levi an ancient Hebrew name.

-

Valeda - Adela...... hmmm.  I remember having posted about Valeda in part -1- of this thread.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 18 January 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

Gola could even be a corruption of the Hebrew word godol. A word meaning high priest.

The descendants of Aaron, who was the first kohen gadol, high priest, of Israel, were designated as the priestly class, the kohanim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levites

Which is associated with the giving of Golan to the Levites.

I get your point on the dates though.

If we read that Wiki page again, it certainly looks like these "Gola" could have been the Levites. But yes, the question remains where the name or title Gola came from.

And it must stand for "missionary priests from Sidon". As far as I know neither the Hebrews nor the Phoenicians sent out "missionary priests."

The Hebrew "Gola" means 'exile', not 'sent away to convert others' or something.

[Knul]

NO-ID-EA, on 18 January 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

looks like you have been reading some Fomenko chronology then Abe .... it's confusing the ........ out of me !

do we think there was a Levi , i have always wondered if this was not a tribe made up of a levy (levi) of people from the other tribes , to act as servants/attendants to the Kohanim.............always wondered too if there was a hidden meaning in the name Levi , being an anagram of Evil ??




P.S. Was also reading some Tacitus  "histories" yesterday and  noticed the couple of paragraphs talking about Valeda the prophetess , of around Civilis' time , maybe someone used that name backwards to come up with OLB prophetess Adela ??

The Kalta time (or Celtic time} was from 600Bc until the Roman time. Thia ia the period of time the OLB actually describes.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 19 January 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

The Kalta time (or Celtic time} was from 600Bc until the Roman time. This is the period of time the OLB actually describes.

No, the OLB describes a time of a 1000 years earlier (around 1600 BCE), but uses events that happened a 1000 years later.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 19 January 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

No, the OLB describes a time of a 1000 years earlier (around 1600 BCE), but uses events that happened a 1000 years later.

The actual story starts with Adela and ends with Askar (Asega Askon).

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 21 January 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

The actual story starts with Adela and ends with Askar (Asega Askon).

I am not talking about when and with whom the story starts and ends, I am talking about the events described in the story.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 19 January 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

The Kalta time (or Celtic time} was from 600Bc until the Roman time. Thia ia the period of time the OLB actually describes.

Massilia was settled, either by the Phoenicians or by the Phocaeans, around 600 BC.

The OLB story around the settling of Massilia (Missellia) by the Phoenicians and those Gola is of more than a 1000 years earlier.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 19 January 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

If we read that Wiki page again, it certainly looks like these "Gola" could have been the Levites. But yes, the question remains where the name or title Gola came from.

And it must stand for "missionary priests from Sidon". As far as I know neither the Hebrews nor the Phoenicians sent out "missionary priests."

The Hebrew "Gola" means 'exile', not 'sent away to convert others' or something.

I found this:

Gola in Hebrew refers to the Jewish diaspora

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gola

meaning the historical exile of the Jews in context above. Exile as you said.

which really means 'a dispersion' of the people. diaspora

How about another similiar term... 'geula' - redeemers...

In Talmudic and post-Talmudic Rabbinic literature, this phenomenon was referred to as galut (exile), a term with strongly negative connotations, often contrasted with geula (redemption).

http://en.wikipedia....Jewish_diaspora

The Geula's - Gola of Sidon may have been actually sent to Sidon from an area closer to Jerusalem.

The missionary priests of Sidon were possibly really ancient Jewish priests of redemption (to God) from Jerusalem area who were in Sidon spreading the word, thats what made them missionaries.

Edited by The Puzzler, 21 January 2013 - 05:35 AM.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 21 January 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Massilia was settled, either by the Phoenicians or by the Phocaeans, around 600 BC.

The OLB story around the settling of Massilia (Missellia) by the Phoenicians and those Gola is of more than a 1000 years earlier.

Yeah the timeframe is a constant headache.

How are you dating this paragraph?

WHAT THE CONSEQUENCE OF THIS WAS.

In the northernmost part of the Mediterranean there lies an island close to the coast. They now came and asked to buy that, on which a general council was held.

The mother’s advice was asked, and she wished to see them at some distance, so she saw no harm in it; but as we afterwards saw what a mistake we had made, we called the island Missellia (Marseilles). Hereafter will be seen what reason we had. The Golen, as the missionary priests of Sidon were called, had observed that the land there was thinly peopled, and was far from the mother. In order to make a favourable impression, they had themselves called in our language followers of the truth; but they had better have been called abstainers from the truth, or, in short,

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#be


That part might not fit in time order in the book..

It may have been a consequence of letting the Thyriers have more free play but might have occurred some time after quite a few lots of 7 years had passed. Even after Minerva had passed away.

Edited by The Puzzler, 21 January 2013 - 06:16 AM.