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Astrology and pseudo science

astrology pseudo science scam

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#1    TheDarkEnergy

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:50 PM

I have seen many astrologers posting ads in newspapers and websites, claiming they can predict your future accurately and control your health/future by prescribing stones.

In order to convince the customers they are using pseudo science theories which simple minded customers do not understand, and often pays hefty sum to these scumbags in order to brighten up their future.

The theories which the astrologers claim to be the working principle of their "method" is:

1. The universe is full of harmful cosmic radiation like gamma rays and x rays (which is correct), and positive energy and negative energy (which is bullcrap)

2. These harmful rays and cosmic energy can impact your health (yeah, if they comes in contact with you directly, which never happens because of earth's protective magnetic shield)

3. Certain gemstones can divert the harmful energy away from your body, certain gemstones can attract them more. (again bullcrap. no such experimental evidence found)

4. Some of these astrologers are smart enough to show you proof of this "energy absorption". what they do is they place a piece of cloth on a common nickel coin, then they touch the cloth (under where the coin is there) with a lit cigarette.
obviously the cloth does not catch fire because even before the cloth reaches it's burning temperature, the heat is distributed by the metal coin which is a very good heat conductor.
unfortunately common people do not get the physics behind it. they believe that even a nickel coin can protect the cloth from burning, then an exotic piece of emerald or ruby will certainly have the power to save them from cosmic evil rays. they end up paying a huge money to the astrologer who supplies them with the gems.

5. They claim that alignment of astronomical objects can impact your health. because when they aligns in a particular way, the combined gravity of these objects will have adverse effect on your health. Very commonly they present you with the example of tides and how the gravity of the moon affects the mighty oceans. What they don't tell us that gravitational force of cosmic objects on individual human bodies are so negligible that there are more gravitational pull between you and your house wall tha you and moon (or any other cosmic object for that matter)

Astrologers claim that horoscopes can predict your future. they tells us the position of the stars when you were born determines your future. Can any believer in astrology here explain with logical proof how it works? How future can be predicted? what's the relation between our fate and some of the the star's position?

:cry: Every decision we make is meaningless because somewhere, on a parallel Earth, we have already made the opposite choice.

#2    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

Ugh. Astrology is such BS.

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#3    Dying Seraph

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

View PostTheDarkEnergy, on 02 October 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

I have seen many astrologers posting ads in newspapers and websites, claiming they can predict your future accurately and control your health/future by prescribing stones.

In order to convince the customers they are using pseudo science theories which simple minded customers do not understand, and often pays hefty sum to these scumbags in order to brighten up their future.

The theories which the astrologers claim to be the working principle of their "method" is:

1. The universe is full of harmful cosmic radiation like gamma rays and x rays (which is correct), and positive energy and negative energy (which is bullcrap)

2. These harmful rays and cosmic energy can impact your health (yeah, if they comes in contact with you directly, which never happens because of earth's protective magnetic shield)

3. Certain gemstones can divert the harmful energy away from your body, certain gemstones can attract them more. (again bullcrap. no such experimental evidence found)

4. Some of these astrologers are smart enough to show you proof of this "energy absorption". what they do is they place a piece of cloth on a common nickel coin, then they touch the cloth (under where the coin is there) with a lit cigarette.
obviously the cloth does not catch fire because even before the cloth reaches it's burning temperature, the heat is distributed by the metal coin which is a very good heat conductor.
unfortunately common people do not get the physics behind it. they believe that even a nickel coin can protect the cloth from burning, then an exotic piece of emerald or ruby will certainly have the power to save them from cosmic evil rays. they end up paying a huge money to the astrologer who supplies them with the gems.

5. They claim that alignment of astronomical objects can impact your health. because when they aligns in a particular way, the combined gravity of these objects will have adverse effect on your health. Very commonly they present you with the example of tides and how the gravity of the moon affects the mighty oceans. What they don't tell us that gravitational force of cosmic objects on individual human bodies are so negligible that there are more gravitational pull between you and your house wall tha you and moon (or any other cosmic object for that matter)

Astrologers claim that horoscopes can predict your future. they tells us the position of the stars when you were born determines your future. Can any believer in astrology here explain with logical proof how it works? How future can be predicted? what's the relation between our fate and some of the the star's position?


Greetings The Dark...,
There are a few issues with your statements I feel I can at least be of some assistance as one who embraces Astrology myself. :)

First and foremost ANY "astrologer", "healer" "medium" etc. that makes bold claims should be held in suspicion. For the most part money is involved, they have a deal with magazines to come up with crap to publish and for the most part rely on generalizations that almost any moron can read and feel that the horoscope is "dead on." By the same token countless can pick up a paper and see their horoscope as dead wrong. Such "astrologers" are generalizing. In regards to stones with healing powers...this is a new age concept and pertains to the "placebo effect." If the person starts to "believe" the stone helps...who's to say that it isn't helping?

In regards to the relation of the alignment of the heavens and astrology in general, it is NOT a tool to tell anyone how to live their life. Astrology is supposed to help us understand ourselves (our temperaments etc. and how we carry ourselves etc.) and others and by doing so we can have a better understanding of ourselves and others and how to approach one another.  To speak in generality for just a moment to provide example. If I am trying to hook up with an Aries woman and her ascending sign is also a fire sign...I need to realize how to approach and talk to her as opposed to say a woman who is a Capricorn with a water sign for her ascending sign. In other words Astrology is meant to be a tool to help us understand one another. NOT to answer anything for us. Not to be a say all be all but a tool. The problem arises in that individuals are commisioned by magazines to come up with and distribute generalities that can speak to a multitude of people and by the same token turn masses off. Again think of astrology as a tool to help us understand one another. Birth charts...understanding the alignment of the planets...this view is thousands of years old was long heald valid and important enough that many courts had astrological and dream interpreters.

And just to convey further validity, consider the fact that astrology was a primitive science in accord with the later Astronomy. Just like the connection of alchemy and the later chemistry.

SINcerely,
:devil:

Edited by Dying Seraph, 02 October 2012 - 09:26 PM.

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts

#4    Ryu

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

I once said on a Wiccan forum that claiming that the position of the stars and planets affect the circumstances of your birth and consequent life is about as asinine as claiming that a single leaf on the top of a orange tree in a certain area of California, during a thunderstorm on the sixth of August is going to have a profound affect on your life.

Naturally the leaf has to be on the outer part of the tree and sitting on the tip of the farthest left branch PLUS the wind has to be coming form the southeast as well. For some reason it wasn't taken too well. Wonder why? :innocent:

There is another issue to consider is that the position of the planets and stars are always changing especially since the Earth has this quaint habit of always moving around so if we are to believe that these celestial bodies have such an influence then these afore mentioned influences would be constantly changing as the Earth continues its journeys.


#5    Dying Seraph

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:54 PM

View PostRyu, on 02 October 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I once said on a Wiccan forum that claiming that the position of the stars and planets affect the circumstances of your birth and consequent life is about as asinine as claiming that a single leaf on the top of a orange tree in a certain area of California, during a thunderstorm on the sixth of August is going to have a profound affect on your life.

Naturally the leaf has to be on the outer part of the tree and sitting on the tip of the farthest left branch PLUS the wind has to be coming form the southeast as well. For some reason it wasn't taken too well. Wonder why? :innocent:

There is another issue to consider is that the position of the planets and stars are always changing especially since the Earth has this quaint habit of always moving around so if we are to believe that these celestial bodies have such an influence then these afore mentioned influences would be constantly changing as the Earth continues its journeys.

Such is the issue with Astrology, or anything else considered "an art." You are mistaken in something. The planets do NOT determine your fate, future etc. THis is often a trap indiciduals run into. Astrology is meant to understand our sensibilities not justify them. Where the planets are DO NOT have a profound effect on your life. They have a profound effect on understanding ones self.

For example a therapist does not offer the same treatent to everyone. Same goes with astrology. A good astrologist attempts to help the individual out by understanding themself not what's to come, what will be etc. Imagine in essence a astrology like therapy. :) A form of treatment not a cure.

Indeed the world is always rotating. Just in individual born now will likely have extreme different temperaments to someone say born 5 minutes from now because of the locality of the cosmos. Just because countless individuals are nborn on the same day means they will likely share the same characteristics. Ascending signs Sun signs moon signs...all are neccessary.

SINcerely,
:devil:

Edited by Dying Seraph, 02 October 2012 - 09:55 PM.

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts

#6    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:24 PM

According to Michael Behe, Lehigh University, founder of Irreducible Complexity, which supports Intelligent Design, his definition of science would include astrology. -Source: Kitzmiller v. Dover

See guys, it is science...

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#7    Habitat

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:41 PM

When I was a young fella we'd go to visit my great-aunt over the other side of the city. Living next door was the mysterious Mrs. Robinson, who had a shop in a busy shopping strip. She did astrology and crystal-ball reading and that sort of stuff. Now I'd have dismissed all that as hocus-pocus, except one day when at the great-aunt's place, a car load of detectives pulled up at Mrs Robinson's place. And no, they weren't there to book her for selling dodgy horoscopes ! What they were there for, and were frequent visitors apparently, for years, was to gain an insight into the location of suspects, and identify culprits via the medium of the Crystal Ball reader. ! Who'd have thought it.


#8    Babe Ruth

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

I've been reading the horoscope in the morning paper for decades now, and more often than not it is irrelevant and useless.  But it is amazing how many times it turns out to be somewhat accurate and meaningful.

I also think that one's astrological sign does many times provide some degree of insight into how any given person thinks or acts, as mentioned by one of the posters above.

I've been reading the horoscope in the morning paper for decades now, and more often than not it is irrelevant and useless.  But it is amazing how many times it turns out to be somewhat accurate and meaningful.

I also think that one's astrological sign does many times provide some degree of insight into how any given person thinks or acts, as mentioned by one of the posters above.


#9    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:38 PM

I know that science is usually correct about some of the big things about the nature of the universe, for instance the laws of thermodynamics and so on and so forth. Yet science by itself is cold and impersonal. To me there is an analogy with the concept that I first came across by reading the fiction of Michael Moorcroft. We have on the one hand Law, all prim and proper, and very boring. And on the other hand we have Chaos, exciting but dangerous. I believe we cannot live simply by science because it is as dogmatic in it's way as certain religions, (not "paganism" of course :nw: ). Certainly there are charlatans involved in astrology, selling nonsense to any number of foolish people. Yet this is no different to certain religions selling all manner of trinkets and ideas to the gullible believers. And here I include such things as Lourdes. After two millenia of propaganda we are programmed to view only "orthodoxy", science as well as religion, as the only truth and that such things as astrology, magic etc as being ridiculous and of the distant past. Well, the people on the side of "Law" do not have all the answers, there is much that is unknown, and will probably always be unknown. There are aspects of the universe that need to be approached from a different direction than conformity. Not all astrology and related affairs are about Californians sitting under glass pyramids and playing with their balls, or Gypsies and tall dark strangers. For me the serious people in these affairs are Helena Blavatsky, and the very much alive Roman Dolyar.


#10    TheDarkEnergy

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:22 PM

View PostDying Seraph, on 02 October 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:


it is NOT a tool to tell anyone how to live their life. Astrology is supposed to help us understand ourselves (our temperaments etc. and how we carry ourselves etc.) and others and by doing so we can have a better understanding of ourselves and others and how to approach one another.  To speak in generality for just a moment to provide example. If I am trying to hook up with an Aries woman and her ascending sign is also a fire sign...I need to realize how to approach and talk to her as opposed to say a woman who is a Capricorn with a water sign for her ascending sign. In other words Astrology is meant to be a tool to help us understand one another. NOT to answer anything for us. Not to be a say all be all but a tool.

So why astrology? why not relationship counselling or grooming sessions? :innocent:

:cry: Every decision we make is meaningless because somewhere, on a parallel Earth, we have already made the opposite choice.

#11    Anonymous User

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:34 PM

I've always thought of astrology as entertainment, not for me, but for those that enjoy that kind of thing. Like fortune cookies.

Anyone that claims it's a genuine practice and or 'science' that can accurately predict peoples future is unbelievably delusional.

Edit: Deleted common sense part, because clearly, if anyone actually believes 'astrology' it's something they're seriously lacking.

Edited by Thomas J, 03 October 2012 - 04:40 PM.


#12    Alienated Being

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:45 PM

View PostThomas J, on 03 October 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I've always thought of astrology as entertainment, not for me, but for those that enjoy that kind of thing. Like fortune cookies.

Anyone that claims it's a genuine practice and or 'science' that can accurately predict peoples future is unbelievably delusional.

Edit: Deleted common sense part, because clearly, if anyone actually believes 'astrology' it's something they're seriously lacking.
I agree with you, however, that does not mean that I do not take the occasional peek at my horoscope just for fun. The forecast is generally ambiguous, and many of the other forecasts for the different signs apply to me, as well.

For example... If a horoscope reads, "You will overcome a challenge today.", then that could mean pretty much have any meaning that you wish to attribute to it.


#13    Anonymous User

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:58 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 03 October 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

I agree with you, however, that does not mean that I do not take the occasional peek at my horoscope just for fun. The forecast is generally ambiguous, and many of the other forecasts for the different signs apply to me, as well.

For example... If a horoscope reads, "You will overcome a challenge today.", then that could mean pretty much have any meaning that you wish to attribute to it.
Well yeah, I guess they could be seen as forms of motivation and such too. I personally don't see them as anything more than entertainment.

When I say certain people are 'delusional' I mean in the sense of belief that horoscopes are capable of predicting things beyond likelihoods and personal interpretation.


#14    Alienated Being

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:01 PM

View PostThomas J, on 03 October 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Well yeah, I guess they could be seen as forms of motivation and such too. I personally don't see them as anything more than entertainment.

When I say certain people are 'delusional' I mean in the sense of belief that horoscopes are capable of predicting things beyond likelihoods and personal interpretation.
Well, yes; of course. Bill Nye did a fine job in debunking astrology.




#15    Dying Seraph

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostTheDarkEnergy, on 03 October 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

So why astrology? why not relationship counselling or grooming sessions? :innocent:

Greetings The Dark...,
It's quite simple. You don't give a hammer to a welder. Nor do you give a plumber a welding maching but you give the individual the respective tools that work for them. Some feel as I do that astrology works for us. :)

SINcerely,
:devil:

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts




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