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The repercussions of being Atheist


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#1    Spock_the_Future

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:09 PM

Hi All,

  My first post after all this time and I have only one thing to ask (Didn't ask the question to my family as I intended to as they all are deeply religious, All of them I assure you, I am the only black sheep, they get angry whenever I do and the discussion is lost, rather it's torn to smithereens) .

If we believe in us and our abilities to do good to others irrespective of getting in Heaven in end.

Why the lure of going to Heaven, Why not just be a good Human Being and help people in need ?, Isn't that what separates us from a so called way of the Animals, By the way I had seen a documentary on Animal Planet which showed a lioness taking care of a baby deer. Animals have no souls the religion says, or again are they the "lord works in mysterious" quotes, Again why for these two and not the rest?  mysterious and we look for evidences first in this website ? Come on People, enlighten me here !!!

Why is a GOD required ? (My whole family believes which I say again ). Why am I the bad guy in the family for not believing ?

And it's not just my family it is the people around them who make them act this way, I've heard them (Priests and all), Why do they force the issue when I never try to convert a believer of GOD into non-believer and never argue against their faith ?

What is exactly the thinking or so called GOD fearing people ? Make me fear too ??

Sorry folks, Just venting my frustration here. Always wondered who is more stubborn ? I am not that much stubborn as the religious people, but does that make them right ?.


Spock the Future

And a lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths.

I am a bad subject for polls, I believe almost anything.

#2    Sweetpumper

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:20 PM

Eh, I avoid the topic all together. You're not the bad guy for not believing but to have your family judge you like that, says a lot more about them.

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#3    Spock_the_Future

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostSweetpumper, on 28 May 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Eh, I avoid the topic all together. You're not the bad guy for not believing but to have your family judge you like that, says a lot more about them.

Hi,

I don't ever blame them, It's the doctrines that propel them which I blame. They are good at heart and they love me and try to think of the best for me (judged by their own religious teachings of course), even if it is what they believe is best for my going to heaven.

Love and good will and persuasion at it's best eh ?. How to cure that ?

Bet they think that I will go to Hell the way I am and they try to make me amend my ways. Actually I am against what my family was preached. They were preached not to leave guys like me alone and convert them. They judge me on a perception fed to them since their childhood.

How do you fight that ?? At least I got the freedom to follow my own way to thinking (Would thanks my family for that). Many don't get that and are forced (Maybe forced, speculating here My Honor !!)

But it does say a lot about the style of preaching that goes on here for the religious people, I am happy at least it is not Kill the non-believer kind of thing.

Spock The Future

And a lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths.

I am a bad subject for polls, I believe almost anything.

#4    and then

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 09:17 PM

View PostSpock_the_Future, on 28 May 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

Hi All,

  My first post after all this time and I have only one thing to ask (Didn't ask the question to my family as I intended to as they all are deeply religious, All of them I assure you, I am the only black sheep, they get angry whenever I do and the discussion is lost, rather it's torn to smithereens) .

If we believe in us and our abilities to do good to others irrespective of getting in Heaven in end.

Why the lure of going to Heaven, Why not just be a good Human Being and help people in need ?, Isn't that what separates us from a so called way of the Animals, By the way I had seen a documentary on Animal Planet which showed a lioness taking care of a baby deer. Animals have no souls the religion says, or again are they the "lord works in mysterious" quotes, Again why for these two and not the rest?  mysterious and we look for evidences first in this website ? Come on People, enlighten me here !!!

Why is a GOD required ? (My whole family believes which I say again ). Why am I the bad guy in the family for not believing ?

And it's not just my family it is the people around them who make them act this way, I've heard them (Priests and all), Why do they force the issue when I never try to convert a believer of GOD into non-believer and never argue against their faith ?

What is exactly the thinking or so called GOD fearing people ? Make me fear too ??

Sorry folks, Just venting my frustration here. Always wondered who is more stubborn ? I am not that much stubborn as the religious people, but does that make them right ?.


Spock the Future
I am a believer.  I do not try to beat people over the head to make them come to faith because it is ridiculous to try.  The sad thing about some Christians (especially) is that they want so much to share the good news of Christ's message that they alienate people. Maybe your family fears you will miss out on heaven?  I absolutely believe that we go on in a conscious state after death and that our Creator will be made known to us at that time.  Most religions are a bunch of man made silliness I guess but the bottom line is that if one does not care to know the Creator enough to try to study His message to us then it is difficult to imagine that person being happy when they meet Him.
As to the right to be a non-believer.... I think God ABSOLUTELY respects that decision among His created...
I'd say be gentle with your family - they do love you, even if they are being a pain :)

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#5    Spock_the_Future

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 09:53 PM

View Postand then, on 28 May 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

I am a believer.  I do not try to beat people over the head to make them come to faith because it is ridiculous to try.  The sad thing about some Christians (especially) is that they want so much to share the good news of Christ's message that they alienate people. Maybe your family fears you will miss out on heaven?  I absolutely believe that we go on in a conscious state after death and that our Creator will be made known to us at that time.  Most religions are a bunch of man made silliness I guess but the bottom line is that if one does not care to know the Creator enough to try to study His message to us then it is difficult to imagine that person being happy when they meet Him.
As to the right to be a non-believer.... I think God ABSOLUTELY respects that decision among His created...
I'd say be gentle with your family - they do love you, even if they are being a pain :)

CREATOR ? Well I beg your permission to disagree. Last time I did had a very good and learning experience while discussing evolution, I maybe still understand a half or a quarter of it but then, you are always entitled to your beliefs, I don't agree to a CREATOR as you term it, but then it's me and I am not asking you to believe otherwise because as you term it "it is ridiculous to try" .

When you say "Most religions are a bunch of man made silliness" I Agree and I would replace Most with All. Can't we do Good without asking for Heaven ?, Kill people for 72 Virgins in heaven ?. Would we when there is a promise of none ?. I do border on stupid when it comes to paranormal other then religion and their so called miracles and I guess it makes me a whole new kind of weird person, Still the concept of GOD and HER/HIM letting out the children from the back door to play the destructive games makes me shudder.

All I know is that We play our games and blame or attribute it to someone non-existent, there is no GOD, just US with preachers trying to gain power with fear as is so with current politicians. Power and mob mentality is what makes these people gain leverage over all of us,

As for my family,I love them as much as they love me. I just don't approve of them trying me make me fear GOD because their preachers tell them that even when I am a good person, if I don't believe in GOD I'll go to Hell. I hate that.

Spock The Future

And a lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths.

I am a bad subject for polls, I believe almost anything.

#6    flbrnt

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:13 PM

View PostSpock_the_Future, on 28 May 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Hi,

I don't ever blame them, It's the doctrines that propel them which I blame. They are good at heart and they love me and try to think of the best for me (judged by their own religious teachings of course), even if it is what they believe is best for my going to heaven.

Love and good will and persuasion at it's best eh ?. How to cure that ?

Bet they think that I will go to Hell the way I am and they try to make me amend my ways. Actually I am against what my family was preached. They were preached not to leave guys like me alone and convert them. They judge me on a perception fed to them since their childhood.

How do you fight that ?? At least I got the freedom to follow my own way to thinking (Would thanks my family for that). Many don't get that and are forced (Maybe forced, speculating here My Honor !!)

But it does say a lot about the style of preaching that goes on here for the religious people, I am happy at least it is not Kill the non-believer kind of thing.

Spock The Future
Think of this in evolutionary terms and as a religion being an organism. If it does not have certain characteristics to perpetuate itself it dies out. It has to reproduce-i. e, seek more adherents. It has to survive-i. e. threaten penalties for those who fall away. It has to protect itself from infections-i. e. foster an us vs. them mentality. Not all religions have gods but they all, of necessity, share these characteristics or they do not last. This is completely independent of whether they are true or not or confer any benefits.


#7    GreenmansGod

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:52 PM

I am a pantheistic Pagan.  I follow a Druid path. You can be a Druid and an atheist. I'm more agnostic, don't know, don't care.  I see gods whether they are there or not as irrelevant. I am evolution of the Universe to reflect on itself, so I guess that makes me god. I'll be honest, Paganism is lot of fun and that is the main reason I stick with it.

   I get a long much better with atheists than most people of the Abrahamic religions .  They have strange idea I worship Satan, so I explain the whole thing and it seems to circle back round that I worship Satan.  I have  come to the point,  I just admit I worship Satan, have horns and dance naked round a circle. I have done the horns and naked part but not the Satan part.  Sometimes it is easier just to go a long. I have a high priestess who has never told her Catholic Mother she is a Pagan. She is actually really high up in her religion. If she was my daughter I would be extremely proud of her.  

My Dad was an atheist and a moral hard working man and a WWII vet.  He taught me right from wrong without a little black book or a god.  What gets me mad is when people say you can't be a moral person without religion.  That is just nonsense. Ethics, he taught me ethics. Ethics has been around a lot longer than the most religions. If they taught Ethics and Logic in high school it would serve kids much more than any religion.

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#8    little_dreamer

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:50 AM

Forget about arguing about it with other people.  Just say "I prefer not to discuss it".  It's a waste of energy.   It's difficult if not impossible to get most people to change their perspective.

Spend your energy thinking of ways to improve your life instead.

I am another anonymous face in the crowd. I am just another tiny wheel in the machinery of the world I live in.

#9    Amalthe

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:59 AM

Mr. Spock, your problem lies in too much loving. :D I mean, your family loves you so much, they firmly believe they will miss you in heaven because of what you declare. There is a question if they themselves will go to heaven, because merely verbally declaring someone's faith isn't getting someone into heaven.

What gets people into heaven is state of heart, humility and willingness to forgive and help other people at the cost of your time, resources, etc.
Now on other hand, doctrine of Christianity helps there a lot, because humans are trained from early years the law about cause and consequence. Like when you do something bad, you deserve punishment.This guilt that you feel effectively stops your heart from becoming humble, so you pass on unforgiveness and stubbornes in other parts of your life.
And Jesus shows in practice what are principles of humility and sacrifice.
Christianity teaches that He took the guilt and punishment for our wrongdoings, and hence made humans free from guilt.

Without getting deeper into proselytizing, what I would suggest to you, to become familiar with epistle to Romans. That is excellent passage which you can use to counter your family that true nature of person is not dependent on what they actually believe in. Second thing is to demonstrate that you are kind, humble and loving person, so that you prove that you have as they say "spirit of Christ" in your heart even without believing in Him.


#10    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:28 PM

To answer your question in the OP. The only real repercussion of being an atheist is that you cut yourself off from god and his connection to you, and all the empowerment and increase in human potential being connected to a powerful entity gives a human being

  An atheist can be everything a theist can be, EXCEPT empowered by god, and a physical connection to god.  (unless god decides to empower them anyway)

That is (in my experience) a huge limitation on an individual's human potential and ability. But those who chose not to believe are rarely given the opportunity to experience this empowement and enhancement, and so have nothing to compare their life as an  atheist with. However wonderful and great a life is as an individual being, body and mind, it is better connected to god.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#11    scowl

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

You would be a fantastic car salesman, Mr. Walker.


#12    Spock_the_Future

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:47 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 28 May 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

My Dad was an atheist and a moral hard working man and a WWII vet.  He taught me right from wrong without a little black book or a god.  What gets me mad is when people say you can't be a moral person without religion.  That is just nonsense. Ethics, he taught me ethics. Ethics has been around a lot longer than the most religions. If they taught Ethics and Logic in high school it would serve kids much more than any religion.

Here I Agree with you. Well I see by what you said that people don't understand your mode of worship (Your religion that is).

One of my issues is that if you had been living in a group where everyone is a Pagan would you all tolerate someone living in your midst who declares that she/he wants to be a Christian ?

Issue is religion does not tolerate deviants, it tries to exclude them either socially or brutally based on the extremism in that religion. These are the repercussions that we Atheists face as we don't believe in any religion or the concept of GOD.

And I would also say that within a group of hardliner Atheists someone claiming to love GOD will get the same treatment and I am sorry to have seen that happening, and I'll tell you why that happens, it is because these so called Atheists have tried to make a religion or a cult out of it, for them Atheism is religion and then they are not so different from all the religious people.

Where to go and where not to ? I cannot understand.

And a lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths.

I am a bad subject for polls, I believe almost anything.

#13    Spock_the_Future

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:03 PM

View PostAmalthe, on 29 May 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

What gets people into heaven is state of heart, humility and willingness to forgive and help other people at the cost of your time, resources, etc.

This is that is required I guess and no religious doctrines get there, they do preach it but never practice it

And I Agree when you say " because merely verbally declaring someone's faith isn't getting someone into heaven". You let someone else take the fall for the crimes that humanity did and make that a religion ? Then what is the basis for that religion ? Next time humanity does more crimes let some or other Goat take the blame for it, suffer and die and we all are washed off our sins ?

And sins, Christianity starts with Original sin, does it not ? so even a baby needs to repent when born, and who gets to decide what is sin and blasphemy ? The power hungry priests ? Clergy ? Have you ever stopped and counted the number of Child abuses done by the Clergy ? and they still maintain their posts. Is that not Sin and deserve punishment ? Why do you people let them continue ? Throw them out for your religion's sake and then tell me that your religion teaches all that you are telling me that it does. Show them cause and consequence first.

I am sorry to say Sir that I would beg to disagree as I am unable to understand it.

Spock The Future

And a lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths.

I am a bad subject for polls, I believe almost anything.

#14    Spock_the_Future

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:06 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 29 May 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

To answer your question in the OP. The only real repercussion of being an atheist is that you cut yourself off from god and his connection to you, and all the empowerment and increase in human potential being connected to a powerful entity gives a human being

  An atheist can be everything a theist can be, EXCEPT empowered by god, and a physical connection to god.  (unless god decides to empower them anyway)

That is (in my experience) a huge limitation on an individual's human potential and ability. But those who chose not to believe are rarely given the opportunity to experience this empowement and enhancement, and so have nothing to compare their life as an  atheist with. However wonderful and great a life is as an individual being, body and mind, it is better connected to god.

:whistle:

View Postscowl, on 29 May 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

You would be a fantastic car salesman, Mr. Walker.

I Agree !!!! :clap:

And a lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths.

I am a bad subject for polls, I believe almost anything.

#15    Spock_the_Future

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:15 PM

View Postflbrnt, on 28 May 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

Think of this in evolutionary terms and as a religion being an organism. If it does not have certain characteristics to perpetuate itself it dies out. It has to reproduce-i. e, seek more adherents. It has to survive-i. e. threaten penalties for those who fall away. It has to protect itself from infections-i. e. foster an us vs. them mentality. Not all religions have gods but they all, of necessity, share these characteristics or they do not last. This is completely independent of whether they are true or not or confer any benefits.

Well if religion was a parasite may be it does all these things you say. Your words do have some logic here. It (religion) is not a living thing by itself anyway so the people involved become the cells, limbs, heart and mind. and these are the type of people who make things difficult for people like me.

And if this is a logic which says Okay, religion is like this then why hate Hitler ?

And a lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths.

I am a bad subject for polls, I believe almost anything.




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