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Time travel


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#136    keninsc

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:57 AM

Ok, it's a measure, so just for giggles what's it measuring?


#137    joc

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:03 AM

View Postkeninsc, on 06 January 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

Ok, it's a measure, so just for giggles what's it measuring?
How fast.  How slow.  How far.  etc.
Imagine a world with no clocks.  No watches.  No measuring anything.  The sun comes up you get up.  The sun goes down, you go to sleep.  You get hungry you eat.
Time is an illusion at best.  We envision Time as 'passing'.  After all yesterday came and went.  Tomorrow will come.  As Janis Joplin said...as we discovered on the train, it's all the same ****ing day man.   Tomorrow and Yesterday are fragmented in our minds as separate events...they aren't.  The illusion of time having past is just that illusion.   It seems to me that it is always now...and yet...now is undefinable.   And yet it is always now.  I've set in hospital waiting rooms like everyone else.  Time drags.  When I'm busy...where did the time go?  The old saying is there is only 24 hours in a day...but the reality is that there aren't any days or nights...at every second of every day the morning is dawning on someone.  Time?  Pfft.

Edited by joc, 06 January 2013 - 06:05 AM.

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#138    keninsc

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:21 AM

Ok, so we're talking about two different things. Never mind. :unsure2:


#139    joc

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

View Postkeninsc, on 06 January 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

Ok, so we're talking about two different things. Never mind. :unsure2:
I am however interested to hear what Time means to you.

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#140    Emma_Acid

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:14 AM

View Postjoc, on 06 January 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Time is an illusion at best.

You're talking about time from a subjective point of view. The fact that you can't unbreak an egg shows that the universe does have a direction that things happen in. So time does exist.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#141    joc

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:02 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 08 January 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:


You're talking about time from a subjective point of view. The fact that you can't unbreak an egg shows that the universe does have a direction that things happen in. So time does exist.
Okay.  I concede.  Time exists. :yes:
It must...because I am always running out of it.

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#142    Hasina

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

I had a time machine. Morlocks will be taking it.
-ba-dum-tsh-

Edited by Hasina, 08 January 2013 - 01:06 PM.

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#143    green_dude777

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

There is something wrong here.... In the previous 9 1/2 pages, I've seen this conversation devolved away from science, and be dominated by a person who doesn't 'believe' general relativity (as if there's an option), another who doesn't 'believe' in the measurement problem in quantum mechanics or time dilation. The people who were actually contributing scientific input (Rlyeh, Star Mountain Kid, Emma Acid) are either being drowned out, or apparently they gave up after beliefs were introduced to the Science and Technology forum.

I hope the mods aren't ever truly wondering why excellent former posters are no longer here.

End rant :/

Edited by green_dude777, 08 January 2013 - 09:51 PM.


#144    joc

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:10 PM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 08 January 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

There is something wrong here.... In the previous 9 1/2 pages, I've seen this conversation devolved away from science, and be dominated by a person who doesn't 'believe' general relativity (as if there's an option), another who doesn't 'believe' in the measurement problem in quantum mechanics or time dilation. The people who were actually contributing scientific input (Rlyeh, Star Mountain Kid, Emma Acid) are either being drowned out, or apparently they gave up after beliefs were introduced to the Science and Technology forum.

I hope the mods aren't ever truly wondering why excellent former posters are no longer here.

End rant :/
I thought it was a free expression board...please excuse me while I go spontaneously combust.

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#145    Lilly

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

View Postjoc, on 08 January 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

I thought it was a free expression board...please excuse me while I go spontaneously combust.

No combusting please (could be painful).

However, you're correct, this is a free expression board. That said, those who choose to promote what they believe over what is supported by sound evidence won't be swaying the opinions of any 'excellent posters' any time soon. A person's opinion is only as good as what supports it.

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#146    joc

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

View PostLilly, on 09 January 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

No combusting please (could be painful).

However, you're correct, this is a free expression board. That said, those who choose to promote what they believe over what is supported by sound evidence won't be swaying the opinions of any 'excellent posters' any time soon. A person's opinion is only as good as what supports it.
I'm not really trying to sway anyone's opinion...especially excellent posters.  I simply refuse to have my 'opinion' swayed by unprovable scientific theory.  And, my opinion remains that Time Dilation has not been 'proven'.
None the less...Emma_acid is correct...most of my postulating on the subject of time is subjective.  I tend to look at things from more of a philosophical/quantum/metaphysical point.  Of course everyone 'knows' that Time exists.  I haven't put my finger on it yet but if and when I do...I will surely wave it in the air for all to smell...see.  ...I held my breath for 25 seconds and did not spontaneously combust and since I don't drink copious amounts of alcohol and smoke cigarettes...it is somewhat doubtful that will happen.  :lol:

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#147    StarMountainKid

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

(I thought I posted this yesterday, but either it disappeared or time for me skipped a beat.)

I was thinking about a statement I made in a previous post here. I said, "if the past does not exist, the technology for a time machine does not exist".

Conversely, only if the past does exist, does the technology for a time machine exist.

Now, in quantum mechanics, all elementary particles are quantized as discrete units. Electrons, protons, photons, etc. And because we understand mathematically how these particles behave we are able to manipulate them

For example, the technology of a radio transmitter manipulates electrons. Laser technology manipulates photons.

Now, the hypothetical quantum particle of time is the chronon. If we could mathematically understand the properties of the chronon and the laws it obeys we could theoretically develop a technology to manipulate them.

The hypothetical quantum particle of space is the spacion, and the same applies. If we understood the spacion and its behavior, we could theoretically develop a technology to manipulate them..

The properties of these two particles must be interrelated. We cannot just manipulate time independently of space. Just traveling in time by itself is meaningless, and traveling only in space is also meaningless. Time and space are covariant. If we travel in time we must correspondingly be traveling in space. The two cannot be separated.

Saying, “I’ll meet you at twelve o’clock” is meaningless unless I specify the place we will meet. If I say, “I’ll met you on the corner of Fifth and Main St.”, that also is meaningless unless I specify the time I’ll be there.

Every moment in time has its corresponding location in space and every location in space has its corresponding moment in time.

So, in the hypothetical mathematical description of these elementary particles, both the chronon and the spacion would be described together in one set of equations. A description of either particle independently would be incomplete. Neither quantum particle could be described without a corresponding description of the other particle.

If we could accomplish discovering the nature of these quantum particles of time and space, I think we could develop a technology to manipulate them. This technology would be our time machine.

As I stated above, if the technology for space-time travel exists, then all space and time must exist, past, present and future.

Just my conjecture.

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#148    jaffa

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:19 PM

I'm sure a government scientist has already created the solution to time travel and is tweeking it as we speak.   Its just top secret.....for now.
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#149    joc

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:20 PM

Quote

Now, the hypothetical quantum particle of time is the chronon. If we could mathematically understand the properties of the chronon and the laws it obeys we could theoretically develop a technology to manipulate them.
...and then we would not be held back by the Chronosynclasticinfindibulum!

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#150    StarMountainKid

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

joc said:

..and then we would not be held back by the Chronosynclasticinfindibulum!

:yes:

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