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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10501    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:09 AM

A book from 1699:

The History of the works of the learned, or An impartial account of books lately printed in all parts of Europe : with a particular relation of the state of learning in each country / 1699

http://www.archive.o...rksof01londuoft

A book of almost 800 pages, and I haven't found the name of the writer yet, lol.

He appears to criticize/comment on Suffridus Petrus' book about Frisian history:

Attached File  HISTORY_OF_THE_WORKS_OF_THE_LEARNED.jpg   62.07K   8 downloads

Here's part:

(...)

Then he attacks the Opinion of those who say, the Frison’s are
descended from Grunius the Trojan, the Builder of Groningen, and
therefore writ them Phrysii, as nearer the Phryges their Progeni-
tors, and at last tells us his own Sentiments, that Freso, the Foun-
der of their Nation, with his Brethren Saxo and Bruno, came from
an Indian Province called Benedicta Fresia ; where having served
under Alexander the Great, and not daring to stay in the Coun-
try after his Death took shipping with what they could bring
off, and landing in this Country, called it Fresia, after his own
Name.

This he insists upon at large in this Third Book, and thinks it the
more probable, because the Story of Saxo, the Founder of the
Saxon Nation, agrees with it. He says all Authors, Crantzius ex-
cepted, agree. That the Saxons were some Remains of the Mace-
donian Army ; and that before they came into Germany, they
were called Macedonians ; for this he quotes the German Chro-
nicle, printed at Mentz, in 1482. the Annals of Freezland, and
others.

His next Proof for this is ancient Rhimes, Constant Tradition,
and the Universal Opinion of the Frisons, who have entertained it
from Father to Son successively, and convey’d it to one another by
Rhimes, a Custom, says he, which the most prudent Nations have
made use of, as the readiest Preservative against Oblivion. He tells
us moreover, that all the Freezland. Historians he hath seen, give
their Suffrage this way.

As a further Proof of this, he alledges, That the Frisons were
constantly great Lovers of Learning, and therefore could easily pre-
serve their Origin and Antiquities from Oblivion. He says also, that
Freso, their Founder, was versed in all the Learning of the Greeks,
and erected a sort of Academies in many places, where Youth were
instructed in Learning, and the Art of War ; and that he erected
one particularly at Stavren, near Stavo’s Temple, and placed a great
Library in the Temple it self.

The Works of the LEARNED,

In the next place, he acquaints us, that both Frison and Saxon
Historians agree as to Saxo, and that the People of Freezland,
Saxony and Brunswick had formerly one and the same Language,
and form of Government.

Then he gives us an Account of the Arms of the Saxons and
Frisons, from the Heralds Books, and says, that when Friso had
the Defence of the German Ocean committed to his Charge, his
Arms were in a blue Field, three Silver Bars, oblique from the right
to the left, betwixt them 7 red Leaves of a Water Rose, 4 betwixt
the Dexter and the middle Bar, and 3 betwixt that and the Sinister.
These, says our Author, were the most ancient Arms of the Frisons,
and prove that they were used by their Princes, Dukes and Kings,
and that the 7 Leaves signified 7 Islands, into which Freezland was
formerly divided. Saxo’s Coat, he tells us, was also a blew Field,
divided in the middle by a cross Line, from the right to the left, under
the same, at the dexter Point, there was a Lion, and at the sinister
Point a Dragon, their Heads almost joined, and looking upon one
another, with a pleasant Aspect. In the upper part there was an
Eagle flying with expanded Wings, looking upon them both. In this
place, he confutes Crantzius, who says, that those are but New
Bearings, and that Wittekind, Duke of Saxony, who was overcome by
Charlemagne, carried in his Ensigns a black Colt, but when he turn’d
Christian, changed it into a white one. He proves from Methodius,
who is many Centuries elder than Whittikindus, that the Saxons in
his time impressed a Lion upon their Coin. He observes, that
Wittikindus was not King of the Saxons, but one of those twelve
Princes (or Great Men) that governed Saxony by turns ; and there-
fore bore the Arms of the Country, and not his own. He also quotes
Wittikind the Monk, who in his 1st Book of Hatthagar, D. of Saxony,
says, that when he encouraged his Men to Battle, he took up the
Standard or Ensign (which they account Sacred) impressed with
a Lion and Dragon, and an Eagle hovering over them, by which he
would represent Fortitude and Prudence, and their Efficacy, and ex-
press constancy of Mind by motion of the Body.

In the rest of his Book he enquires after the Indian Fresia, and
thinks it to be the Pharrasii mentioned by Curtius, beyond the Ganges.
He pretends to trace Freso’s Genealogy, as far as Shem, one of Noah’s
Sons, and gives an Account of the Travels of Freso and his Bre-
thren, c. all which is submitted to the Readers Censure, it being ap-
plicable to Antiquaries better than to any other fort of Men.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 February 2012 - 12:42 AM.


#10502    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:49 AM

EL DESCUBRIMIENTO DE CHILE POR LOS FRISIOS

THE DISCOVERY OF CHILE by the Frisians

http://www.aforteano...os en chile.htm

http://translate.goo...0en%20chile.htm



===


El descubrimiento de Chile por los frisios en el siglo XI - José Toribio Medina/1910

http://books.google....AAJ&redir_esc=y

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 February 2012 - 12:56 AM.


#10503    Knul

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:51 AM

What is the distance of a ketting - chain ?

[p. 176] As wi nw arhalf ketting fon-ra of wêre, bigoston tha Phonisiar to skiata. - Toenwe nu ander half ketting (kabelslengte) van hen af waren, begonnen dePheniciers te schieten - When we were at a cable and a half distance from them the Phonisiar began to shoot. Correct translation: a chain and a half

ketting = 20 meters, 1 1/2 ketting is 30 meters.

The use of ketting for distance dates back to 1620 (see below) and is a good proof, that the OLB can not be older.

chain
20.12 m

10 chains = 1 furlong
100 links = 1 chain
22 yards = 1 chain
      
A chain is the length of a  cricket pitch. It has been used since 1620. Its correct name is a Gunter's  chain or surveyor's chain, since it was invented by the Rev. Edmund Gunter  (1581-1626), a professor of astronomy at Gresham College, London. There is a  different chain called the Ramsden's chain. A correspondent says "The whole of the United States was measured and  mapped using the Gunters Chain and his chain still applies to all title plans  in use today. For this reason all city blocks, roads and avenues are  multiples of the chain. Towns were laid out at 6 miles square or 36 sq miles.  Early farms were sold to would-be farmers as lots of 640 acres or 1 sq mile.  Interestingly enough the Geodetic coastal survey and ordnance surveys of the  entire US are metric." Another correspondent says "Many of the older people in Jamaica use  chains as a measure of distance. 'The shop is about 5 chains down the road'  for example. The only other useage I have ever encountered is on railways,  where the radius of curvature of a line used to be measured in chains."

    


Edited by Knul, 27 February 2012 - 04:01 AM.


#10504    Otharus

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:30 AM

View PostOtharus, on 26 February 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

I often wonder if you have ever read the OLB PROPERLY.

Your fear of it may have troubled your view.
I apologise for this.

We all read the book with different eyes and it inspires us in different ways.

That is at least already one similarity with religious texts, and sure, there are many more.

There is truth in what Abe said.

OLB, if it would go viral, can inspire crowds into bad as well as good things.

In it I read more aversion against 'priests and princes', than against yellow and black people.

I have tried to focus on the most positive (IMO) sides of it.

(I never liked the Finda was ...  and Lyda was ... part that follows the 'creation myth'.)

I will think better before I post again.

Edited by Otharus, 27 February 2012 - 07:57 AM.


#10505    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:44 AM

Goodmorning! It's ok Otharus.

I think my comparison with THE Bible set you and Knul on the wrong footing, lol.

Books are not 'dangerous', it's aways what people get out of reading those books and do with the ideas they spin around their 'understanding' of what they read that is often more dangerous.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 February 2012 - 08:33 AM.


#10506    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:56 AM

I am not sure if this has already been posted, but here is Suffridus Petrus' original book from 1590:

De Frisiorum antiquitate et origine libri tres : in quibus non modo eius gentis propriae, sed & communes Germaniae totius Antiquitates multae, hactenus incognitae, produntur ; & obscuri veterum scriptorum loci plurimi illustrantur .- Suffridus Petri, 1590

http://books.google.... Fresia&f=false

Alas, only for those who read Latin.


#10507    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:27 AM

http://dissertations...k/Waterbolk.PDF

SUMMARY:

This study deals with the Frisian historians of the l6th and 17th
centuries. Part I, in three chapters, contains a description of the
causes which led them to historical reflection; part II, also in three
chapters, dealing with the same period and persons as the three
chapters of part I, considers the development of a historical sense
and historical criticism.

It was after 1524 in particular that many took to writing, when
party-hatred was subsiding. They were defining their attitude to
the absolutism of Charles V. In East-Friesland, on the other hand,
it was humanism that led to historical reflection.

Humanism strengthened national unity. Although this sense of
unity existed in the Middle Ages also, humanistic nationalism was
more conscious and was distinguished by all sorts of gradations.

The Greater-Frisia idea of race-consciousness is subordinated to a
wider Germanic consciousnessin lesser degree than in Holland and
Zeeland. The distinctive traits of the Frisians, particularly of their
language, are fully emphasized. It is not until the end of the l7th
century that the Greater-Frisian sense of unity declined, and the
bond with the Netherlands grew stronger.

From this love of native things arose a sense of obligation to
study them and also their past history. This produced all kinds
of new types of historical writing.


Typical of this new nationalism is the lack of restraint with which
it is declared, manifested, for instance, in the desire for glory. To
this is unquestionably due the peculiar variety of wild and fictitious
history, seen most fully displayed in the so-called Chronicle of
Ocko Scharlensis. There are indications that the Chronicle is of
humanistic origin and a deliberate fiction. This was not unusual,
but while in Holland proper, for example, the type was stifled at
birth, this did not happen in Friesland. National pride and the
aristocratic character of Ocko's story may account for this. There
are points which suggest that the Chronicle is voicing the opinions
of a group of nobility suffering from a sense of neglect following
the emancipation of the towns. The first official historiographer
of Friesland, Suffridus Petrus, shares this aristocratic point of
view, in contrast to Ubbo Emmius, the greatest of Frisian historians,
who stresses the importance of the peasantry and is pleading for
municipal privileges.

In the light of these contrasts the relations of the States of
Friesland to Emmius, of Stadtholder Willem Lodewijk to Emmius
and Furmerius, Suffridus' successsor, and of the municipality of
Leeuwarden both to Emmius and to the official historiographers
Winsemius and Gabbema are treated in some detail.

It is next demonstrated that the fictitious histories are not
influenced by the Roman-Catholic Counter-Reformation, as has
sometimes been maintained.

In the third chapter it is shown how in all districts of Frisia,
during the latter half of the 16th century, the absolutist tendency
came into conflict with the tradition of privileges. People turned
in particular to the past to find legal justification for resistance to
absolute rulers, such as Philip II, the Cirksena's, or the town of
Groningen.

The practice of writing history thus achieves a new dignity
hitherto unknown in Friesland. The status of the historiographer
rises because the historian has a social function. Everywhere this
fact is acknowledged by governing authorities, as is shown by the
appointment of official historiographers about 1600. The historian
is also in a position to advise the politician in concrete difficulties.
He tries to find out how people used to act in a given situation,
in order to discover rules for action which will have universal
validity. This drives Winsemius into platitudes; but Emmius has
the insight to perceive that there is a relationship between human
psychology and external circumstances.

Not only the politician but also the reader in general must profit
by history. Thus, it is often possible to detect a moralizing tendency,
while the point of view of orthodox Christianity can also be
observed in the narrative.

Nothing was allowed to hamper the search for truth in order to
attain all these objects. For that reason Emmius advocates freedom
of criticism and free admittance to archives. He fiercely lashes
opponents whom he thinks to be suppriming the truth. His violence
is, indeed, not unconnected with the fact that the writing of history
and politics are closely interconnected.

From the Twelve Years' Truce onwards, the aggressive tone in
historical writing becomes less loud. The theocratic conception of
history is gaining ground. Schotanus is a striking example of this.

There are many signs that humanistic inspiration is on the wane.
Writers are now addressing a different audience. Creative force
fades. Historiography broadly based upon tribal relationship, the
humanistic starting-point and aim, is abandoned. Not until the 19th
century will Romanticism rekindle interest in Frisian past.


About 1500 a new age is in evidence. The Frisian writers are
aware of this and attest the fact. New material rouses interest,
and the treatment of it must satisfy new requirements. A more
critical attitude towards sources can be discerned. Doubt is beginning
to be felt in regard to the vast number of stories about
the remote Frisian past. There is a greater desire for facts as
distinct from tradition.

Contact with classical authors leads to still greater scepticism.
The fact that the writer is conscious of an audience also helps to
advance historical criticism. He seeks to guard himself against
detractors. The interest in geography also has a particularly
stimulating effect upon the critical sense of our writers. Personal
observation comes to be highly esteemed, while there is an
awareness of impending change. A rational, causal method of
explaining phenomena is developing. The number of available
documents increases; charters are more frequently consulted; the
idea of the "historical record" acquires a wider sense.

The Chronicle of Ocko may be regarded as a reaction against
humanistic scepticism. Suffridus Petrus, of great renown in his
day, appears as a defender of the Chronicle. He opposes the
fastidious humanists, who turn up their noses at everything that
the Middle Ages, the "aetas barbara", have achieved. As a collector
of Frisian historical documents and as editor of medieval chronicles,
Suffridus Petrus is a man of great merit. For him the classics are
no longer sacrosanct; he believes implicitly in the native Frisian
writers and in Frisian tradition. Later writers of fictitious histories,
such as Furmerius and Winsemius, no longer show quite the
same confidence in Ocko's version of history: several turn away
from it altogether.

In the fourth quarter of the l7th century the uncritical type of
history emerges again, and once more for reasons not unconnected
with the spirit of the age.

Frisian historiography meanwhile reached its zenith about 1600,
especially in Ubbo Emmius. Emmius in Groningen keeps closer
than Dousa in Leiden to the humanistic requirements in the aesthetic
of historical narrative, though he will not sacrifice clarity and
accuracy to form. But like Dousa, Emmius stands out as the
adversary of mythography. His view is that history must be based
on actual documents and he firmly turns his back upon native
writing and tradition. In treating his sources, he discriminates
consistently between them according to the date of their composition
and inquires into the attitude of their writer, Events must
fit the framework of their age; separate periods are to be
distinguished. Political changes are attended by new cultural
standards; change is gradual and brought about by natural causes.
Many other writers are beginning to realise the same thing.

Emmius is a pioneer in the study of charters. Furmerius too is
important as a student of charters, medieval, authentic records, and
as a collector. Owing to his use of the "leges barbarorum" Siccama
comes to rewrite social history, if only in his notes to an edition
of the text.

Schotanus' theocratic and Calvinist view of history yields profit
as well as loss. His outlook changes considerably, but his criticism
becomes less "enlightened", though he retains much of the outlook
of his predecessors. This is also true of Gabbema, whose critical
acumen is again somewhat dulled. But as collectors these two
writers have bequeathed us a notable legacy, Schotanus in the
Tablinum, printed at the end of his "Geschiedenissen", Gabbema
in his editions of letters. Later generations will indeed be grateful
to them.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 February 2012 - 08:51 AM.


#10508    Knul

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:43 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 27 February 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

I am not sure if this has already been posted, but here is Suffridus Petrus' original book from 1590:

De Frisiorum antiquitate et origine libri tres : in quibus non modo eius gentis propriae, sed & communes Germaniae totius Antiquitates multae, hactenus incognitae, produntur ; & obscuri veterum scriptorum loci plurimi illustrantur .- Suffridus Petri, 1590

http://books.google....0Fresia&f=false

Alas, only for those who read Latin.


The full text you can find here: http://books.google....epage&q&f=false .


#10509    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:47 AM

View PostKnul, on 27 February 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

The full text you can find here: http://books.google....epage&q&f=false .

That is exactly the same book, only in black-and-white, lol.


#10510    Abramelin

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:27 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 February 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:


I hope you read that: "In Mainz – where there also was an attestable Frisian colony". That, in connection with me saying "Gosa Makonta" was noone else but "Goswinus Magontinensis" or "Goswinus from Mainz", and you saying that Mainz was too far away from Texel.

.

By accident (I was busy for another thread) I found this:

Religion and Literature in Western England, 600-800 (Cambridge Studies in Anglo-Saxon England)

A review:

In the sixth and seventh centuries pagan peoples who were known as Hwicce and Magonsaetan arrived from unknown parts of Europe and settled the frontierland of the "Welsh Marches" from Warwickshire as far as the Welsh kingdoms west of Offa's Dyke & perhaps also along the Wye Valley. They retained their own kings, aristocracy and independent monasteries up until the eighth century. Dr. Patrick Simms-Williams, professor of Celtic Studies at Abersytwyth University focusses mainly on the literary documents, and on some of the archaeology, excluding Anglian-Mercian sculptures; & perhaps not fully exploring other hypotheses of non-Saxon, non-Celtic provenance. These 2 tribes were able to meld with the Dobunni and other Celtic tribes, yet they were not Celts.

Simms-Williams describes the Christianising of the Hwicce or Wigge peoples (whose name I personally interpret as being the "warriors"). He reviews the origins of diocesan Worcester and Hereford, and the very early flowering of monasticism among the Hwicce and Magonsaetan. Could there be some link with Maguntium - Mainz? and/or other displaced tribes who were potentially not Anglo-Saxon but perhaps Jutish-related. The Dark Age history of this part of Britain went sadly unrecorded by Bede, Gildas and others. We know little of the identity of these noble elites and king-lines and nothing of their provenance. Their absorption into the Anglo-Saxon heptarchies; was not total, even after the 800's
.

http://www.amazon.co...=cm_rdp_product

http://books.google....bcC&redir_esc=y

=

During the 7th century AD the River Severn became a boundary between the lands of two rival tribes. These were the Magonsaetan, who occupied the area to the south of the river, and the Wroecensaetan (people of the Wrekin), who lived to the north of the river. These boundaries have remained the same until today. They now divide regions of church authority; i.e. the dioceses of Lichfield and Hereford. The remains of the Roman town of Wroxeter can be seen here with the Wrekin in the background.

http://www.secretshr...DefenceComm.asp

=

Magonset (Westerna / Herefordshire Saxons)

The British territory of Pengwern was conquered by Oswiu of Northumbria in 656, while he was overlord of the Mercians. Western Pengwern was then settled by Saxon groups who probably migrated northwards from the territory of the West Saxons and the Hwicce, although there is a possibility that some of them were already in the area, perhaps as allies of Pengwern.

They made the most of the sudden power gap to found small kingdoms. The first was based on modern Wroxeter (Roman Viroconium, which evolved into British Caer Guricon), and the new arrivals called themselves Wrocenset based on that name. The second was in modern Kenchester, just west of Hereford in Herefordshire (Roman Magnis), which was probably adapted as Caer Magnis by the Romano-British and bastardised as Magon by the Saxons: Magonset (or Magonsæte) means settlers of Magon. The Magonset kingdom also seems to have been known by several names, including Westerna, or Western Hecani.

The kingdoms were small, but they were not obscure, at least to the people of the time, although few records have survived to describe them. Certainly nothing seems to have been recorded about the Magonset after circa 680, apart from the names of its kings, and even that detail has been lost for the Wroconset. By the beginning of the eighth century, the Anglian Mercians had gained overall control of the territory of the Magonset and Wroconset. It is perhaps around this time that the name Westerna was used for the Magonset territory by the Mercians, perhaps to describe the border region with Powys - the Anglian word for borderlands, 'mercna' was already in use for Mercia itself, and its borders did not yet reach as far as Powys
.


http://www.historyfi...andMagonset.htm

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Magonsæte

.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 February 2012 - 06:28 PM.


#10511    Abramelin

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:14 PM

View Postlilthor, on 16 February 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

And just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better...

...it goes right ahead and does.

For the first time in years... I am the only one left who posts here for a day.

No Alewyn, no Puzz, no Otharus, no Van Gorp, no Cormac, no Swede, not you, no one but me.

Well, at some point the well runs dry.

I think we have by now squeezed out every posssible source to the last drop.

The only thing wanting is a new discovery of an ancient manuscript written in the same script the OLB is written in.

I will bet that will never happen.

Heh, unless it's by my hand. And then it will be found in some monastery in Poland, the country where those ancient Prussians, or as I once called them, "Phruisians" once lived.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 February 2012 - 08:34 PM.


#10512    lilthor

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:18 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 February 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

For the first time in years... I am the only one left who posts here for a day.

No Alewyn, no Puzz, no Otharus, no Van Gorp, no Cormac, no Swede, not you, no one but me.

Well, at some point the well runs dry.

I think we have by now squeezed out every posssible source to the last drop.

The only thing wanting is a new discovery of an ancient manuscript written in the same script the OLB is written in.

I will bet that will never happen.

Heh, unless it's by my hand. And then it will be found in some monastery in Poland, the country where those ancient Prussians, or as I once called them, "Phruisians" once lived.

.

Actually, I was going to comment on the interesting nature of your post #10507 (also to bump the thread!), but you got there first.

I must admit, after all these pages and many swings back and forth on whether the OLB is genuine, I'm as clueless as ever.  Great reading though!

I do believe some answers are out there.  Maybe they rest at the bottom of the Wadden Sea.  Undersea exploration is just now starting to get very interesting, so hopefully many answers will come from the North Sea area.  It wouldn't take too many key artifacts to validate some portions of the OLB, it seems.


#10513    lilthor

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:41 PM

One thing this thread has quite conclusively revealed:

Frisian girls are damn good-looking.


#10514    lilthor

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:12 PM

Sorry for that digression about Frisian girls.


Back to it then:

Abe it is your posts #10501 and #10507 that, for me, represent the extremes which tend to make my head spin a little.

On the one hand we have a culture that had an incredibly strong oral tradition of passing their history and mores down through the generations.  Reading this, it seems possible such stories just might survive intact over millenia.

On the other hand, we see politically-motivated "scholars" who aren't too shy to make stuff up to further some agenda.  Reading this, it seems possible the entire OLB is a bunch of nationalistic hooey.

I still want to dig to the bottom of de Burcht Leiden.


#10515    Abramelin

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:46 PM

View Postlilthor, on 28 February 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

One thing this thread has quite conclusively revealed:

Frisian girls are damn good-looking.

If you prefer long, tall blonds, then yeah.

One of my exes looked like that, and she moved to the province of Groningen, and that's ex-Frisian territory.

She was born and bred in The Hague, though.