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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#4006    The Puzzler

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:27 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 May 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

Sundaland got its name from the Sunda Islands:

http://en.wikipedia....i/Sunda_Islands
Yes...and? What is the etymology of Sunda in Sunda Islands?

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#4007    Abramelin

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:03 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 18 May 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

Yes...and? What is the etymology of Sunda in Sunda Islands?

The name Sunda derives from the word su which means goodness. Sunda also means light, cleanness, bright, and white.

http://en.wikipedia....undanese_people


#4008    The Puzzler

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 18 May 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

The name Sunda derives from the word su which means goodness. Sunda also means light, cleanness, bright, and white.

http://en.wikipedia....undanese_people
OK thanks.

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#4009    Abramelin

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:45 AM

In this thread we had a discussion about the spelling of the word MAGYAR/MAGIAR :

http://www.unexplain...0

View PostThe Puzzler, on 18 May 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

The OLB talks about - look closely - MAG then a back to front Y - (for Magy)
Then Page 3 of Knuls copies MAG-back to front Y-ARA
Why would this back to front Y be an I when I is already an OLB letter? But same with Y...
You can answer me in the OLB thread if you like. Check the original. http://www.rodinbook.nl/olbscans.html
Then check the alphabet in the OLB - what letter does that back to front Y equate to do you think?

Only in MS 003 it is spelled MAGYAR (with the OLB -Y- ) :

http://www.rodinbook.nl/ms001-050.html

But everywhere else "Magyar" is spelled with the OLB  -i-  which translates into a Dutch -J- :

MS 052/056/057/059/063/094

http://www.rodinbook...ipt051-100.html

MS 161/203/204/206/210

http://www.rodinbook...ipt151-210.html

(Best thing to do is to highlight MAG with your browser if you want tocheck it)


#4010    The Puzzler

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:32 PM

I find su in Tamil as words associated with heat and maybe even to sun.

In Sanskrit I find this: eu- Posted Image word-forming element in modern use meaning "good, well," from comb. form of Greek eus "good," eu "well" (adv.), also "luckily, happily," from PIE *(e)su- "good" (cf. Sanskrit su- "good," Avestan hu- "good"). http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none Makes me also think son is a word from this meaning. son (n.) Posted Image Old English sunu "son," from Proto-Germanic *sunuz (cf. Old Saxon and Old Frisian sunu, Old Norse sonr, Danish søn, Swedish son, Middle Dutch sone, Dutch zoon, Old High German sunu, German Sohn, Gothic sunus "son").

The Germanic words are from PIE *sunu-/*sunyu- (cf. Sanskrit sunus, Greek huios, Avestan hunush, Armenian ustr, Lithuanian sunus, Old Church Slavonic synu, Russian and Polish syn "son"), from root *su- "to give birth" (cf. Sanskrit sauti "gives birth," Old Irish suth "birth, offspring").[/I] http://www.etymonlin...search=Sanskrit From root *su- ; to give birth - related to Sanskrit sauti - which should have a common root as IE languages should. So, su in Sanskrit as ' good'  imo should really be relative to the above. Indus Posted Image river in Asia, from Sanskrit sindhu "river."

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#4011    The Puzzler

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 18 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

In this thread we had a discussion about the spelling of the word MAGYAR/MAGIAR :

http://www.unexplain...0



Only in MS 003 it is spelled MAGYAR (with the OLB -Y- ) :

http://www.rodinbook.nl/ms001-050.html

But everywhere else "Magyar" is spelled with the OLB  -i-  which translates into a Dutch -J- :

MS 052/056/057/059/063/094

http://www.rodinbook...ipt051-100.html

MS 161/203/204/206/210

http://www.rodinbook...ipt151-210.html

(Best thing to do is to highlight MAG with your browser if you want tocheck it)
OK, I did some checking and see MAG-back to front Y-ARA and I do also see lots of MAGIARA.

The letter is in the alphabet there, that back to front Y, still wonder what it was.

Posted Image

Anyway, I actually think they were Zoroastrian Magi as well, who were Medians, maybe relative to the mention of Medea even, since Medea in myth is a namesake for the Medians themselves.


The Median people are mentioned by that name in many ancient texts. According to the Histories of Herodotus;[19]


The Medes were called anciently by all people Aryans; but when Medea, the Colchian, came to them from Athens, they changed their name. Such is the account which they themselves give.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes

Not to mention, the famous mention, of them being Aryans.

This is a priestly class also, associated again in myth, to Colchis, Aia, led by King Aeetes, a son of Helios. Medea, a sorceress who knew magic, seemingly a Magi priestess herself, worshipping a Helios, sun cult figure.


So, we know the Zoroastrians worshipped a fire altar and a God, and Zoroaster looks like Jesus, lol, so that's good enough for me to also think the Magi are the same as what you think - HOWEVER - I do not see why they could not have been originally a Uralic speaking people who learnt a language of that area, but in other places they kept their Uralic speech, culminating in a group migrating into the Hungarian Plain, from of all places, the Volga, where Snorri pinpoints Asaland, a place of dark sacrifice - because I also think that it's only the Finns who actually hold the Nordic stories of giants, elves and the like, because Fryans didn't. The people of Scandinavia hold these stories, often connected to shaman and a Uralic language, imo, because they originate with a Uralic speaking people. Greeks changed their language from Pelasgian, why not other people, especially priests who integrated into other peoples cultures, don't tell me all these Magi are different, I see a priest class spreading and integrating when I see Magi, Chaldean wanderers watching stars, guided by the Pole star, like Sami have a meaning for the Pole star too. All over, even being druids, seers, all priests everywhere in the ancient world and this is why we see the same basic structures in many religions all over the world, possibly then, spread by one dominating force.

Maybe not on track or whatever but it was in my head so wanted to share.

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#4012    Abramelin

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:07 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 18 May 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

I find su in Tamil as words associated with heat and maybe even to sun.

In Sanskrit I find this: eu- Posted Image word-forming element in modern use meaning "good, well," from comb. form of Greek eus "good," eu "well" (adv.), also "luckily, happily," from PIE *(e)su- "good" (cf. Sanskrit su- "good," Avestan hu- "good"). http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none Makes me also think son is a word from this meaning. son (n.) Posted Image Old English sunu "son," from Proto-Germanic *sunuz (cf. Old Saxon and Old Frisian sunu, Old Norse sonr, Danish søn, Swedish son, Middle Dutch sone, Dutch zoon, Old High German sunu, German Sohn, Gothic sunus "son").

The Germanic words are from PIE *sunu-/*sunyu- (cf. Sanskrit sunus, Greek huios, Avestan hunush, Armenian ustr, Lithuanian sunus, Old Church Slavonic synu, Russian and Polish syn "son"), from root *su- "to give birth" (cf. Sanskrit sauti "gives birth," Old Irish suth "birth, offspring").[/I] http://www.etymonlin...search=Sanskrit From root *su- ; to give birth - related to Sanskrit sauti - which should have a common root as IE languages should. So, su in Sanskrit as ' good'  imo should really be relative to the above. Indus Posted Image river in Asia, from Sanskrit sindhu "river."

And this is what "sindhu" means in Sanskrit:

Sindhu: ocean, sea, river, flood, stream, waters, river Indus, country around the Indus, water ejected from an elephant's trunk, exudation from an elephant's temples.

http://spokensanskri...yes&beginning=0


#4013    Abramelin

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:21 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 18 May 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

OK, I did some checking and see MAG-back to front Y-ARA and I do also see lots of MAGIARA.

The letter is in the alphabet there, that back to front Y, still wonder what it was.

Posted Image

Anyway, I actually think they were Zoroastrian Magi as well, who were Medians, maybe relative to the mention of Medea even, since Medea in myth is a namesake for the Medians themselves.

<snip>




Only on page 3 of the MS the word MAGYAR is spelled with that 4th letter from the left, but everywhere else (and that's a dozen times or so) it is spelled with the 2d letter from the left, the one that looks like -i- , the Dutch -J . In English it becomes  -i- .

And that looks to me as though someone spelled it once like MagYar, either on purpose or it was a slip of the pen (not really, the 2 letters are too different).. ...and then thought it was better to use the -i- instead so you'd get MAGIAR (or Magjar in Dutch).

Remember: Willem van Haren's MAGER were Zoroastrians, the Hungarian MAGYAR were not.
And he is one of the many 'suspects' of creating the OLB (or he is one of the sources that inspired those writing the OLB....).


.

Edited by Abramelin, 18 May 2013 - 07:47 PM.


#4014    jaylemurph

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:54 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 16 May 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Jaylemurph, HELP !! I'm hooked, lol.

Just keep in mind that you cannot usefully use historical linguistics on a word-by-word basis. Whenever you take one word and assume it's related to another one word in another language, you automatically remove it from the context that lingusitics explores. There's borrowing. There's sheer coincidence -- humans can make only so many sounds and can only attach so much meaning to three or four letter (orr fewer) morphemes. There's never a preponderance of evidence that truly shows relationship.

If you're amazed at the results, you shouldn't be. They're self-serving, deliberately or not. By definition, you find what you want to find, rather than having the data lead to a result -- which is the point of methodical research. The desired result affects the analysis, leading to false findings. You assume a relationship and -- hey, Presto! -- amazingly enough, you find it. That's not research, it's lexical m********ion.

What would be truly remarkable with this lego linguistics would be if its users ever failed to find a meaningful relationship between two words. Which from what I see, they haven't.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#4015    Abramelin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:05 AM

I know Jaylemurph. It wasn't really a 'cry for help'..

To me it was more of an interesting coincidence (Middle Dutch "sintvloed" - Noah's Flood -  and "Sindh Flood") because I have been saying all along that there were those in the 19th century who assumed that Eden/Paradise was located near the Himalayas. All that, combined with the Hindu legend of a Flood caused by torrential rains, could have been an inspiration for story of the (destruction of) Aldland/Atland in the OLB.


#4016    Abramelin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:43 AM

Post 1975:

http://www.unexplain...65#entry4546369

Angelara sâ hêton mân to fora tha butafiskar
The Angelara were men heretofor called the Butafiskar

A Swedish Wiki about the Batavian Republic... and look how it is called in Swedish (and Danish, and Norse):

http://sv.wikipedia....iska_republiken


#4017    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:18 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Post 1975:

http://www.unexplain...65#entry4546369

Angelara sâ hêton mân to fora tha butafiskar
The Angelara were men heretofor called the Butafiskar

A Swedish Wiki about the Batavian Republic... and look how it is called in Swedish (and Danish, and Norse):

http://sv.wikipedia....iska_republiken

Butafiskar = Bataviska

Meaning the Angles became Batavians or something is your line of thought??? Might be where Buda is...

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4018    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:22 AM

I just found this and maybe it's why English people still sometimes refer to the Dutch as Huns, remember I said that before?

In the German "Saga of Tidreck of Bern", its written versions beginning from the 13th century, the Huns are called Frisians. Frisia was often called Hunaland in the Middle Ages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns

Not the Germans from the war, but Dutch in particular. The Dutch Huns is a common term here, or if a Dutch person comes on TV, you could call him a Hun and it's not derogatory as far as I know, but calling a German a Hun from WW1 propaganda would be.

Edited by The Puzzler, 20 May 2013 - 09:26 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4019    Abramelin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 20 May 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Butafiskar = Bataviska

Meaning the Angles became Batavians or something is your line of thought??? Might be where Buda is...

Yes, that's what the OLB suggests.

As you can read in the link, I thought that the OLB had forgotten about the Batavi, but in a way they show up.

The Romans said the Batavi were not only great horsemen, but also great swimmers and sailors. All that could link them to the Angelara/Butafiskar.

The OLB "Butafiskar" is a name, though the etymology of the name is given ("buite-n-visscher" would be the Old Dutch word, someone who fishes 'outside, ie. at sea).


+++


EDIT:

The Swedish (and Norse and Danish) "Bataviska" is nothing but an adjective meaning "Batavian". In Dutch that would be ""Batavische" or "Bataafse".

The Dutch ending -ISCHE is equal to the Swedish -ISKA and the English -IAN.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 May 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#4020    Abramelin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:57 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 20 May 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I just found this and maybe it's why English people still sometimes refer to the Dutch as Huns, remember I said that before?

In the German "Saga of Tidreck of Bern", its written versions beginning from the 13th century, the Huns are called Frisians. Frisia was often called Hunaland in the Middle Ages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns

Not the Germans from the war, but Dutch in particular. The Dutch Huns is a common term here, or if a Dutch person comes on TV, you could call him a Hun and it's not derogatory as far as I know, but calling a German a Hun from WW1 propaganda would be.

I have never heard of that before, but here they think it were the Franks who were called that way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunaland

OK, and then the Dutch are a mix of Frisians and Franks, so yeah.

+++

EDIT:

Another possible source for "HUN" or "HUNE" is this:

Hünengrab/Hünenbett (German) and Hunebed (Dutch)

The word dolmen has a confused history. The word was first used archaeologically when Théophile Corret de la Tour d'Auvergne used it to describe megalithic tombs in his Origines gauloises using the spelling dolmin (the current spelling was introduced about a decade later and had become standard by 1995).[2][3] The etymology of the German Hünenbett or Hünengrab and Dutch Hunebed all evoke the image of giants building the structures.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolmen


.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 May 2013 - 02:02 PM.





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