277 replies to this topic

[Kafkaesque]

Let Texas secede.

[Hasina]

Drayno, on 13 November 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Let Texas secede.

Why?

[Kafkaesque]

Hasina, on 13 November 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Why?

Because they should have the ability to do so if they wish it.

The actual petition's text:

"The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government."

To quote the petition's author, "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

Edited by Drayno, 13 November 2012 - 11:31 PM.

[Hasina]

Drayno, on 13 November 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Because they should have the ability to do so if they wish it.

The actual petition's text:

"The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government."

To quote the petition's author, "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

Best answer I've read.

[Kafkaesque]

The various states opting for secession after the re-election of Obama reminds me how the original rebel states seceded after the election of Lincoln.

[MiskatonicGrad]

pallidin, on 13 November 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

Well, that's fine, but as I pointed-out on a similar topic, the US Congress must also vote to agree on a state seceession from the US, just like the US Congress must vote on a regions petition to be included in the US umbrella.

pallidin, on 13 November 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

It doesn't matter, in and of itself, if 100% of the population of a US state votes to seperate. The final action MUST be approved by Congress.

?? Do you really think what your saying makes any sense? If Texas votes to secede, guess what they just seceded. What does congress have to do with that? they might not recognize Texas as a seperate republic but that's just denial. If you decied to quit this fourm and we all vote that you can't(and we would) would you stay?

[Euphorbia]

Drayno, on 13 November 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Because they should have the ability to do so if they wish it.

The actual petition's text:

"The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government."

To quote the petition's author, "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

If we allowed Texas to secede, what would stop every other state from doing the same if they so wished?

I live in California and we have the eighth largest economy in the world. If we, Texas, and a small handful of the other more productive states seceded, what would happen to the US? What would it be like for a less productive state like North Dakota?

All I have to say is that many states depend on food and other necessities from the other states. Would these less productive states be able to survive?

It'll never happen.......

[MiskatonicGrad]

Drayno, on 13 November 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Because they should have the ability to do so if they wish it.

The actual petition's text:

"The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government."

To quote the petition's author, "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

HEY HEY who told that person they could quote the founding documents when doing something concerning the goverment of this nation? Those two things don't go together them old moldy document are outdated and have no place in the modern world. Or so i've been told.

Edited by MiskatonicGrad, 14 November 2012 - 01:45 AM.

[MiskatonicGrad]

Euphorbia, on 14 November 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

If we allowed Texas to secede, what would stop every other state from doing the same if they so wished?

I live in California and we have the eighth largest economy in the world. If we, Texas, and a small handful of the other more productive states seceded, what would happen to the US? What would it be like for a less productive state like North Dakota?

All I have to say is that many states depend on food and other necessities from the other states. Would these less productive states be able to survive?

It's called trade it happens everyday.

[Euphorbia]

MiskatonicGrad, on 14 November 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

It's called trade it happens everyday.

And if say, California and Texas, etc. decided not to trade? Sure they could trade with other countries, but with what?

[spud the mackem]

A hypothetical question :- If Texas did leave, then a foreign power sailed into Galveston or another port and gave an ultimatum, Surrender or we'll take you out.Would America go to their aid, as they have just dumped the rest of the States.

[Kafkaesque]

Euphorbia, on 14 November 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

If we allowed Texas to secede, what would stop every other state from doing the same if they so wished?

I live in California and we have the eighth largest economy in the world. If we, Texas, and a small handful of the other more productive states seceded, what would happen to the US? What would it be like for a less productive state like North Dakota?

All I have to say is that many states depend on food and other necessities from the other states. Would these less productive states be able to survive?

It'll never happen.......

Well, if Texas legitimately seceded without violence, it would be an unprecedented moment in our nation's history.. Whether or not other countries would view Texas as a legitimate, sovereign nation, is another thing. Had the rebellion in the Civil War lasted a longer period of time, with greater victories, then the international stage would have been quite different at the start of the 20th century as they probably would have acknowledged the south as independent..

States themselves were designed to be sovereign. If Texas seceded, conceptually, as the US was first designed, the rest of the states could hypothetically secede as well. We also have to take into account that if the states are truly sovereign they should not be so affected by another state leaving the Union. In my understanding, secession has always been a controversial subject. I mean, that is how the Civil War began: states rights. If Texas left the Union and became independent, trade, as MiskatonicGrad stated, is always an option - that is, unless the US decided to put sanctions on Texas to pressure them back into the Union - if they were to become independent.

To MiskatonicGrad, those documents may be outdated, but the US Constitution was made precisely to adapt to social change. Our founding fathers anticipated an influx of political and social issues after they declared independence from England and created this nation. The US Federal government, in terms of its relationship with its states, and thus by extension its people, can be comparable to the American colonies to England in the 18th century..

Taxes, taxes, taxes, national draconian laws like the removal of fair representation and due process, unwarranted violation of privacy and personal properties, limiting of free speech, increasing political persecution, the further centralization of power in the executive branch, almost non-existent transparency in terms of the Federal government's governing.. In fact, I would say Texas is more than obliged to secede.

Do I advocate another Civil War? No.

Do I advocate states rights in the face of an uber-powerful centralized Federal government? Yes.

Edited by Drayno, 14 November 2012 - 02:24 AM.

[Lilly]

Looks like there might be a bit of a backlash to all this secession stuff:


https://petitions.wh...e-them/ZbMjcwPf

[Euphorbia]

Lilly, on 14 November 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:

Looks like there might be a bit of a backlash to all this secession stuff:


https://petitions.wh...e-them/ZbMjcwPf

Where would they deport them to?

North Korea would be a good choice.    Then maybe they would appreciate what they had......

[Hasina]

Lilly, on 14 November 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:

Looks like there might be a bit of a backlash to all this secession stuff:


https://petitions.wh...e-them/ZbMjcwPf

This just proves my point that they're also Nutter Butters.