403 replies to this topic

[Still Waters]

The Church of England and Church in Wales will be banned in law from offering same-sex marriages, the government has announced.

Other religious organisations will be able to "opt in" to offering ceremonies, Culture Secretary Maria Miller told MPs.

David Cameron has said he wants churches in England and Wales to be part of the plans.

But Mrs Miller said they had strong opposition and would not be included.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-20680924

[shadowhive]

Still Waters, on 11 December 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

The Church of England and Church in Wales will be banned in law from offering same-sex marriages, the government has announced.

Other religious organisations will be able to "opt in" to offering ceremonies, Culture Secretary Maria Miller told MPs.

David Cameron has said he wants churches in England and Wales to be part of the plans.

But Mrs Miller said they had strong opposition and would not be included.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-20680924

An extremely misleading topic heading.

I'm glad that we'll finally have same sex marriage. It's just a shame outspoken religions have scaremongered so much that they've had to have so many concessions, especially when they've already had protections and exemptions in place already.

Edited by shadowhive, 11 December 2012 - 02:01 PM.

[Armchair Educated]

As a christian i cant promote gay marrige but at the same time, i think that laws are meant to be put in place to protect the public, and homosexuality in no way endangers the public.
marriage from the church and marriage from state should be different things, if you dont believe in christianity theres no need to get married in a christian church as its contrary to the rules of the church that arnt meant to change. im sure there must be some churches of other religions or non religious registry offices that can be just as official for homosexuals and more pleasing to their needs. a preist held at gunpoint to marry the same sex might ruin their ceromony (jokes lol)

Edited by Armchair Educated, 11 December 2012 - 02:02 PM.

[shadowhive]

Armchair Educated, on 11 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

As a christian i cant promote gay marrige but at the same time, i think that laws are meant to be put in place to protect the public, and homosexuality in no way endangers the public.
marriage from the church and marriage from state should be different things, if you dont believe in christianity theres no need to get married in a christian church as its contrary to the rules of the church that arnt meant to change. im sure there must be some churches of other religions or non religious registry offices that can be just as official for homosexuals and more pleasing to their needs. a preist held at gunpoint to marry the same sex might ruin their ceromony (jokes lol)

The original intention of the law was for same sex civil marriages only. However some religious groups (some of which are christian) actually wanted to marry gay people, which is why we have it in the way it is now. You can only speak for your demonination though. There are other christian churches that would absolutely love to marry gay people.

Like I said, a lot of scaremongering was done by the church to make out like churches would be forced to doing it. Hopefully that'll stop now that it's been stated point blank that they won't. But, hopefully, internal change for those churches will come evenuallly.

Also remember that you are a human being first, a christian second. Christianity says to do plenty of things that you, in good conscience, would never do. Please don't use your faith as an excuse.

Edited by shadowhive, 11 December 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[Armchair Educated]

shadowhive, on 11 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

The original intention of the law was for same sex civil marriages only. However some religious groups (some of which are christian) actually wanted to marry gay people, which is why we have it in the way it is now. You can only speak for your demonination though. There are other christian churches that would absolutely love to marry gay people.

Like I said, a lot of scaremongering was done by the church to make out like churches would be forced to doing it. Hopefully that'll stop now that it's been stated point blank that they won't. But, hopefully, internal change for those churches will come evenuallly.

i could swear on my left hand that you will never get support from the other churches as they base their religion on the bible, as for the others i can understand from your point of view that they are christian but surely you cant be contraryto the bible and be a christian.
This might sound like its inciting an argument but you unknowingly insult christians with your suggestions of bettering christianity by  christians not believing in christianity.

Edited by Armchair Educated, 11 December 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[shadowhive]

Armchair Educated, on 11 December 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

i could swear on my left hand that you will never get support from the other churches as they base their religion on the bible, as for the others i can understand from your point of view that they are christian but surely you cant be contraryto the bible and be a christian.

The bible says to kill people for planting different crops side by side, that selling children into slavery is ok, that wearing mixed frabics should be punished among other things. Do you follow them simply because they're in the bible? You don't? But those things are in the bible! How can you call yourself a christian for not doing what the bible tells you to!

You see, every christian does things 'contrary to the bible', even you. So you can't critise people for doing what you do.

I know it's shocking, but you can be christian and use common sense.

I'm told that you just have to believe in jesus and his teaching to be a christian. Since most of the bible is nothing to do with that, well...

Edited by shadowhive, 11 December 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[shadowhive]

Also I find the church of England's arguement particularly hypocritical. After all the church was founded because one man wanted to change marriage so he could get a divorce.

[Armchair Educated]

shadowhive, on 11 December 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

The bible says to kill people for planting different crops side by side, that selling children into slavery is ok, that wearing mixed frabics should be punished among other things. Do you follow them simply because they're in the bible? You don't? But those things are in the bible! How can you call yourself a christian for not doing what the bible tells you to!

You see, every christian does things 'contrary to the bible', even you. So you can't critise people for doing what you do.

I know it's shocking, but you can be christian and use common sense.

I'm told that you just have to believe in jesus and his teaching to be a christian. Since most of the bible is nothing to do with that, well...

Every thing you just said shows that you have a lack understanding of the bible and how its meant to relate to people, you know nothing about me and how closely i follow my religion. you are very presumptous and lack common sense as you judge something as an expert even though you havent read it, as i shown in your answer. i have read the bible from beggining to end in order

Edited by Armchair Educated, 11 December 2012 - 02:24 PM.

[Armchair Educated]

shadowhive, on 11 December 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Also I find the church of England's arguement particularly hypocritical. After all the church was founded because one man wanted to change marriage so he could get a divorce.

Henry the 8th started it but in no way represents christianity as he was using a levitcal law that didnt even apply to him
Most christians dislike the church of england and the catholic church so any arguments between them are void.

Edited by Armchair Educated, 11 December 2012 - 02:25 PM.

[shadowhive]

Armchair Educated, on 11 December 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Every thing you just said shows that you a understanding of the bible and how its meant to relate to people, you know nothing about me and how closely i follow my religion. you are very presumptous and lack common sense as you judge something as an expert even though you havent read it, as i shown in your answer. i have read the bible from beggining to end in order

And yet you don't follow it's laws when it comes to executing people left and right so obviously you don't follow it that closely.

My point is this. You ignore lots of parts of the bible so you don't really have room to critise people that ignore one other (very small) part of it.

You're right, I've not read it I don't want to. If you held me at gunpoint and told me to, I'd prefer the shot than reading that fiction.

[shadowhive]

Armchair Educated, on 11 December 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Henry the 8th started it but in no way represents christianity as he was using a levitcal law that didnt even apply to him
Most christians dislike the church of england and the catholic church so any arguments between them are void.

So what brand of christian are you then? There's just so many isn't there? It just goes to show how unclear and open to interpretation that the bible actually is that there's more denominations then is necessary.

Funny you bring up the levetical laws since the main 'arguement' against homosexuality by the church is from them. A list of laws that is (ar that one) universally ignored.

Edited by shadowhive, 11 December 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Armchair Educated]

shadowhive, on 11 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

And yet you don't follow it's laws when it comes to executing people left and right so obviously you don't follow it that closely.

My point is this. You ignore lots of parts of the bible so you don't really have room to critise people that ignore one other (very small) part of it.

You're right, I've not read it I don't want to. If you held me at gunpoint and told me to, I'd prefer the shot than reading that fiction.

tell me where in the bible it says a gentile has to kill people and then look at your comment and then try to if you can read your comment seriously.

[shadowhive]

Armchair Educated, on 11 December 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

tell me where in the bible it says a gentile has to kill people and then look at your comment and then try to if you can read your comment seriously.

Ah of course. The bible says one thing but oh wait, you've got this out so you don't have to follow it. But if other people don't follow something that's equally ridiculous you do the christian thing of saying they're 'not real christians'.

Look back at what I read. I purposely used examples of things that most people of good conscience would never even consider. Yet at points in the bible, it ok's them. My point being Just because something is in the bible doesn't mean it's ok or right. Clearly you missed my point.

Edited by shadowhive, 11 December 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[Armchair Educated]

shadowhive, on 11 December 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

So what brand of christian are you then? There's just so many isn't there? It just goes to show how unclear and open to interpretation that the bible actually is that there's more denominations then is necessary.

Funny you bring up the levetical laws since the main 'arguement' against homosexuality by the church is from them. A list of laws that is (ar that one) universally ignored.

if i told you the kind of christian i was you wouldnt understand as you dont understand basic christian theology, you think that christians are under the laws of the old testament, the main of of the new testament is they are not. are you saying sexual imorality isnt mention in the new testment because it is and your making a fool out of your self by revealing more and more about the lack of christianity you do know.

[shadowhive]

Armchair Educated, on 11 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

if i told you the kind of christian i was you wouldnt understand as you dont understand basic christian theology, you think that christians are under the laws of the old testament, the main of of the new testament is they are not. are you saying sexual imorality isnt mention in the new testment because it is and your making a fool out of your self by revealing more and more about the lack of christianity you do know.

Try me.

Again. I'm saying these things are in the bible. Like I said in my last post: just because they're in the bible doesn't make them right and doesn't mean they should be followed.

As for sexual imorality, it's down to the translation and interpretation. Homosexuality itself is a fairly recent word. It's felt the original meaning of the text was aimed at something else, yet it got translated to mean homosexuality and it's just stuck.

Christians, like any other person have free will. they can make their own choices and decisions. They shouldn't be chained to what the bible says or doesn't say anymore than anyone else.