254 replies to this topic

[The Puzzler]

This is not based in anything sci-fi or Sitchin-like, it is based in what seems like an obvious answer (to me).

The Great Pyramid was built to be able to be a vehicle for the body to astral travel or astral project, that is have an out of body exprience (OOBE) that took one to the stars and Heavens for a journey and back again.

If anyone is interested I'll add some links and other info on why I think this is the most logical answer for the Pyramid Texts and their use.

Here is a small link to a part that seems to indicate the Pharoah was not dead when he used the texts, he was very much alive.
http://www.midlandss...ntum_realm.html

“Re‘ and Thot, take (the traveler?) with you…….that he may sit on that which ye sit,………that he may voyage in that wherein ye voyage” (210) and they go off to the night sky to “reeds” and “marshes”.
Then, very clearly, “thou didst not depart dead; thou didst depart living,” (213). They travel “regions” and “secret places” and he has to “beware of the ocean”. The “dew of the stars” purifies him.

I don`t think this could be any clearer, “thou didst not depart dead, thou didst depart living”. It seems quite clear to me that the traveler is alive!

He is then told very clearly he is not perishable, and that the imperishable stars have carried him away. The stars are always interchangeable with people; they are star persons. WE call famous people `stars`, so why shouldn`t they have?  Where did we get the term `star` when referring to a famous person?

In 216, the evening boat comes for him and he is enveloped by something “pure and living” in the horizon. Apparently he is “cool” and it is all very pleasing.

[cladking]

The Puzzler, on 10 May 2010 - 01:05 AM, said:

http://www.midlandss...ntum_realm.html

Quote

Ancient Egypt is in the hands of Egyptologists who spend so much time looking down at sand and clay, their thinking turns to concrete and they can`t `imagine` a different possibility. They don`t take the content of the texts seriously, passing it off as magical funeral gibberish. However, a retired physics teacher, C. Harvey, asserts that the grammar and alphabet of the hieroglyphs has a scientific form that is extremely programmable, so the super computers of the scientific community should be able to make some sense of it. However, the scientists don`t yet know it could be important. They are too busy smashing atoms together in underground laboratories to go on holiday and get curious about the Ancient Egyptian underground laboratories….which are probably just as interesting as their own!

I did the math.  It works out to 0 = 0.  

I would suggest the physicist type watch this if the link will work;




No!  No human being could learn all those so-called spells in the Pyramid
Texts such that he might live forever.  The king would take one look at
that monstrosity and say he'd much rather die thank you very much.


Egyptologists are so far off the beam that they couldn't even get back to
square one.


Link repaired.  I highly recommend it.

Edited by cladking, 10 May 2010 - 01:27 AM.

[Swede]

Nothing like credibility (?);


"It is proven that tiny particles from the Sun called neutrinos, and electromagnetic forces or waves carry some kind of `intelligence` to us. The texts refer to the “messengers” that come from the Sun.  136b.” The messengers of thy ka are come for thee; the messengers of thy father are come for thee; the messengers of Re‘ are come for thee.”
Re is the Sun God, and these neutrinos come out of the Sun" - Posted reference.

http://www.midlandss...out_alison.html - Source

.

[The Puzzler]

Swede, on 10 May 2010 - 01:49 AM, said:

Nothing like credibility (?);


"It is proven that tiny particles from the Sun called neutrinos, and electromagnetic forces or waves carry some kind of `intelligence` to us. The texts refer to the “messengers” that come from the Sun.  136b.” The messengers of thy ka are come for thee; the messengers of thy father are come for thee; the messengers of Re‘ are come for thee.”
Re is the Sun God, and these neutrinos come out of the Sun" - Posted reference.

http://www.midlandss...out_alison.html - Source

.

So, what's the problem, she is an astrologer and has come up with an idea on what the Pyramid Texts might be about, I don;t know about all the other stuff she writes but I thought the overall idea of the Pyramid Texts being read to astral travel was pretty sensible actually when put into context of the myths and such.

She is not the only one, I just used that particular reference to show how it could be the Pharoah/King was not dead, but actually still alive.

Here's another site that is very detailed comparing it to the practice of shamans.

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/ast.htm

Wiki - Astral travel http://en.wikipedia....tral_projection

Ancient Egypt - Similar concepts of "soul" travel appear in various other religious traditions, for example ancient Egyptian teachings present the soul as having the ability to hover outside the physical body in the ka, or subtle body.

Astral projection (or astral travel) is an interpretation of any form of out-of-body experience (OOBE) that assumes the existence of an "astral body" separate from the physical body and capable of travelling outside it.[1] Astral projection or travel denotes the astral body leaving the physical body to travel in the astral plane.

The idea of astral travel is rooted in common worldwide religious accounts of the afterlife[2] in which the consciousness' or soul's journey or "ascent" is described in such terms as "an...out-of body experience, wherein the spiritual traveller leaves the physical body and travels in his/her subtle body (or dreambody or astral body) into ‘higher’ realms."[3] It is therefore associated with near death experiences and is also frequently reported as spontaneously experienced in association with sleep and dreams, illness,[4] surgical operations, drug experiences, sleep paralysis and forms of meditation.[5]

It is also sometimes attempted for its own sake,[6] or may be believed to be necessary to, or the result of, some forms of spiritual practice.[7] It may involve "travel to higher realms" called astral planes but is commonly used to describe any sensation of being "out of the body"[8] in the everyday world, even seeing one's body from outside or above. It may be reported in the form of an apparitional experience, a supposed encounter with a doppelgänger, some living person also seen somewhere else at the same time.


Rooted in common worldwide religious accounts of the afterlife. It really isn't such a strange idea.




It was actually once very common it seems and something we have generally lost the ability to do.

[Mattshark]

Well the problem is, is that astrology is nonsense, astral travel is nonsense. It is called fiction and you are taking it over evidence.

Edited by Mattshark, 10 May 2010 - 02:37 AM.

[The Puzzler]

Mattshark, on 10 May 2010 - 02:36 AM, said:

Well the problem is, is that astrology is nonsense, astral travel is nonsense. It is called fiction and you are taking it over evidence.

Fair enough, I have no answer for that. I know this was probably a waste of time starting this topic and after reading some more it does appear that they were for use after death. I have been reading this
http://books.google.... texts"&f=false

It seemed to make alot of sense but I guess as I read more and more on their actual construction and seperation into the seperate rituals it doesn't leave much room for it to have been anything else but the spells for getting the soul safely back to the stars.

I don't think astral travel is nonsense though completely, it is a very ancient practice and the Australian Aboriginals practiced it, I even know one who has done it. I still say it was done in ancient times and that astral travel is still being performed imo on the dead in these Pyramid Texts, it's just they are dead but are still seen as living, working with a dead person instead of being alive but being seen as alive which may have caused my confusion.

Edited by The Puzzler, 10 May 2010 - 04:19 AM.

[cormac mac airt]

Quote

I still say it was done in ancient times and that astral travel is still being performed imo on the dead in these Pyramid Texts...

As astral travel is pretty much by definition something that is performed or experienced by a living being, it would not apply to the dead. What you are referring to sounds more like some form of soul migration, which is probably closer.

Edit to clarify:  Closer to AE beliefs, not necessarily reality.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 10 May 2010 - 04:41 AM.

[cladking]

The Puzzler, on 10 May 2010 - 04:17 AM, said:

Fair enough, I have no answer for that. I know this was probably a waste of time starting this topic and after reading some more it does appear that they were for use after death. I have been reading this

You give up too easy.

Allen's translations don't agreee with those which have come before.

While some of this could be caused by new knowledge it's very improb-
able that much of it is since past agreement was excellent.  It's dif-
ficult to even compare the works since Allen dumped the numbering
system that was in use for one that is unique to his own "translation".
This entire work appears generally distinct and unique.  

If you want to study the PT you might be well advised to use any of
the older versions;

http://web.archive.o...y/pyt/pyt06.htm

http://www.pyramidte...ranslation.html

Also there's Sethe.

[Qoais]

So now we're back to where we were talking some time ago, about consciousness and why it is we can figure out the answer to a problem when we "sleep on it".  The soul or consciousness goes astral traveling while we're asleep, and finds the answer.  Whether it travels to another planet, another realm, another dimension or whatever, we seem to know things without having been taught them.  Once we became "conscious of ourselves" or whatever the correct terminology is, we started to develop a lot faster.  This points to us being able to access some mine of information that we couldn't before.  Even if we were to "dream" something, and then the next day, make what it is we dreamed of.  I'm thinking here of the first humans that were conscious of self.  Say they had a dream.  Where did the dream come from?  If the mind had not yet experienced what the dream was about, where did the dream come from?  From an outside influence?  Perhaps that is why the AE's believed their king would live on - because the king or the priests, had been astral traveling and knew what was out there.

[cladking]

I'm gonna hafta sleep on it.  

Edited by cladking, 10 May 2010 - 06:05 AM.

[The Puzzler]

cladking, on 10 May 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

You give up too easy.

Allen's translations don't agreee with those which have come before.

While some of this could be caused by new knowledge it's very improb-
able that much of it is since past agreement was excellent.  It's dif-
ficult to even compare the works since Allen dumped the numbering
system that was in use for one that is unique to his own "translation".
This entire work appears generally distinct and unique.  

If you want to study the PT you might be well advised to use any of
the older versions;

http://web.archive.o...y/pyt/pyt06.htm

http://www.pyramidte...ranslation.html

Also there's Sethe.

lol normally I don't, I must be tired.

I will read the text links you showed, thanks.

Q - I reckon that's it, something like dreams conveyed consciousness or the astral travelling conveyed a kind of level that is unattainable to us to understand how they took this so seriously. Your post is very thought-provoking actually.

cladking, on 10 May 2010 - 06:04 AM, said:

I'm gonna hafta sleep on it.  

See what your dreams bring you - good night.

[The Puzzler]

Qoais, on 10 May 2010 - 05:36 AM, said:

So now we're back to where we were talking some time ago, about consciousness and why it is we can figure out the answer to a problem when we "sleep on it".  The soul or consciousness goes astral traveling while we're asleep, and finds the answer.  Whether it travels to another planet, another realm, another dimension or whatever, we seem to know things without having been taught them.  Once we became "conscious of ourselves" or whatever the correct terminology is, we started to develop a lot faster.  This points to us being able to access some mine of information that we couldn't before.  Even if we were to "dream" something, and then the next day, make what it is we dreamed of.  I'm thinking here of the first humans that were conscious of self.  Say they had a dream.  Where did the dream come from?  If the mind had not yet experienced what the dream was about, where did the dream come from?  From an outside influence?  Perhaps that is why the AE's believed their king would live on - because the king or the priests, had been astral traveling and knew what was out there.

There seems to be many references where a dream bought a message of importance of they dreamed a prophecy or similar. The Malta temples have dream cubicles they think and I first became interested in what it all meant way back when looking into Malta, it seems a really ancient practice so I wouldn't be suprised if as you say it led to a higher level of development, hard to word but I know what you are saying, I think.

[SlimJim22]

Here's the sort of thing I was talking about.
http://www.cosmiclig...fe/geometry.htm

This site has a much more indepth explanation. Recommended only for those with an open mind.

http://www.evo-lutio...ontic-megapost/

I think the PT's were meant for astral travel aswell as soul migration. We ae really talking about inducing a NDE or OBE. I imagine there would have been a lot of training before hand and then when it came time, the initiate may have become convinced that it was to be a real death. However, a batch of mushrooms would have altered consciousness, combined with altered vibrations I see no reason why the soul could not become released from the body. When they were put in the sarcophagus they were alive but perhaps not all souls made it back to the body so after three days they wre found dead.

When the Pharoah did die, I think they would be using the Couches of Osiris for his soul migration. It goes something like, the Hippo couch leads to the Underworld or Abyss, the Cow couch is rebirth and the Lion couch is ascension. Something like that anyway.

[SlimJim22]

Some more links of relevance to the topic.

http://soundofallthi...-great-pyramind

http://www.tokenrock...le/article/139/

http://www.highdeser...&_Pyramids.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magick

Hope you find some points of discussion within. I will get back to you.

[SlimJim22]

Just read that Pyramid could mean "Pyre of Fire" where fire is used to mean vibrations. I find it more reasonable to think of the pyramid as a conductor of consciousness that many other suggestions that have been contemplated over the years.

Also, wouldn't the Book of the Dead be the text that deals with funerary rites. I've not studied it so don't know for sure.