132 replies to this topic

[ouija ouija]

Do we know what the current position is with the case? Are the Zahaus and the Shacknais still trying to get it reopened or has it been declared closed with no avenue left for the families to go down?

Yes, I think we can agree on the 6 points that you made, at the very least. And yes, I see no reason why we can't moved forward on the assumption that those points are the truth ....... there's nothing to stop us changing any point at any time if we come across more information that suggests a change.

Sorry, can't do any more tonight ...... I have to go to bed! Goodnight.

[Duncansmom]

The last I heard they were all together, Rebecca's parents, Max's mother and even Jonas... were all together in asking for a review of the facts and reopening of Rebecca's ccase.  .  What I read re. Jonas's view point was that it was really hurting him businesswise to have these questions remaining.... But It was only the mother that had been forced to sue for Max's autopsy results.  Her lawsuit... was for no money.... just for the findings.... I think that amount of resistance  on the part of the police was really unbelieveable !!

And I hope both you and Antilles know when I ennumerate things, in no way am I trying to "take over" the thread..... No, not after the history of this thread., it doesn't need another judge~  .. It is just good when I read back that I think we agree on so much!  Tell me if I'm wrong please....... I just thought it would be beneficial to bring our findings/beliefs together and go from there,.... I have to go back and reacquaint myself with facts.

I'm so excited now about really having an honest debate of the facts !!!  When this happened None of my friends are into the "Unsolved"... I had no one to ever discuss it with... didn't know UM then...

Antilles, you brought up those knots way back in the beginning of the thread.  Could you share what t do you know about that type of knot?

Edited by Duncansmom, 27 January 2013 - 12:32 AM.

[Antilles]

I don't honestly know that much about that type of knot! If you look at the crime scene photos, that just seems to be a really complicated way for a 26 year old girl to commit suicide.

Look, I'm leaning towards the she had  help angle but I'm still not convinced it wasn't her own intention. The boy died and she was there. She lied about giving him CPR. I've not read anything that convinces me her brothers, either one of them, killed her or at least had a motive to kill her.

I still believe that this whole case revolves around the little boy's death.

[Duncansmom]

I haven't had much time for detective work today.  However, I did find a site www.radaronline.com that has a wealth of informaition, including a sheriff's deputy reenacting how those knots were tied.....I went back a moment and looked at them.... for someone in the process of hanging themself, they are might precise!  There's also a story regarding the set of her footprints on the balcony left cleted (sp.) prints.  She must have been wearing her work boots are basketball shoes when she went out on the balcony.  Didn't have time to read all yet but I thought I'd put this site out there if anyone else wants to take a look.

[regi]

Antilles, on 29 January 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

I don't honestly know that much about that type of knot! If you look at the crime scene photos, that just seems to be a really complicated way for a 26 year old girl to commit suicide.

I've not read anything that convinces me her brothers, either one of them, killed her or at least had a motive to kill her.

Antilles, no one's bothered to correct you with the facts.

I don't know if it would make a difference to you, but Zahau was 32.
Anyway, my own opinion about that is that I don't find the bindings around the ankles and wrists complicated; I find that the wrappings were excessive- 6 loops around rt. ankle, 8 around lft.; 5 loops around rt. wrist, and 6 around left.
Personally, I don't think anyone proficient with rope would be unnecessarily excessive. (Also, I fail to find a purpose for it in the first place.)

The autopsy report described the knot around the bed leg/frame as "a simple slip loop". (Interesting to me, the body was unclothed but wore three bands on the wrists. Left wrist- a black band that read "Bionic", and a yellow "Livestrong" band, and on the right wrist was one that read "Power Balance".)

The brothers are Max's father- Jonah Shacknai, and his brother, Adam, and Zahau was not legally married to Jonah Shacknai.

[Duncansmom]

Have you looked at the knots around the bed post?  I dont' think any knoting could be more precise.

Regi:  You have posted again and again that you see no reason for this discussion.  In every post you state that you find everything in the police and autopsy reports to be accurate. I have to mention here that all of the parties directly concerned have asked repeatedly that the investigation be reopened, stating in their minds it is not complete.  

With all due respect I have to ask why you continue to post to this discussion?   You could just make one post saying that everything we are discussing is wrong and be done with it.  Maybe you are not aware that your replies have again and again seemed to be disrespectful to our right to even discuss the matter.  I don't think any of the other people in this thread enter their posts for the purpose of having an arguement with anyone.  If you would like to take a meaningful part in the discussion, it would be welcomed.  But since that does not seem to be the case, may I then sincerely ask, since your mind seems to be quite made up as you just posted again "You fail to find any purpose in discussing this,"  that you please act on your own decision.


Thank you!

Edited by Duncansmom, 30 January 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[wolfknight]

Damn that is a very strange case. Lot of twists and turns.

[Antilles]

regi, where did I get 26 from? You're right, she was 32. She had also been convicted of shoplifting in 2009. I'm just adding that because I've been back reading and I hadn't noticed that before. Nothing to do with her death, just interesting.

http://www.utsandieg...coon-boyfriend/

This is way back from the start of this thread. If Schaknai is so rich, why did she quit her job in December? To look after his kids? She was his girlfriend, not his nanny.

[Duncansmom]

Well... maybe... LOL Rebecca fell over her own feel making no footprints while strangling herself with the teeshirt around her neck.... reasonable... All reasonable...

But was she 26 or 32 when she did so????  Oh, gosh, I'm so sorry I brought this topic up...   !d

Edited by Duncansmom, 31 January 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Duncansmom]

I apologize for the typo...Should be" She fell over her own feet while hanging herself at 32 rather than 26....That would also explain the cleet marks in the footprints on the balcony????


She was older so she was wearing heavier shoes?  I think Antilles' initial  comment was the pertinent question.  What possible difference does her age make?

Edited by Duncansmom, 31 January 2013 - 08:47 AM.

[Antilles]

Well, if there were cleet marks on the balcony DM, they wouldn't have been from her work shoes because she'd been working at an optometrist before she ditched her job. So, where did they come from?

Is there any way to get info from the authorities that is actually accurate? There are so many different stories out there, sometimes I wonder if they're from the same case.

[regi]

Duncansmom, on 30 January 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

Regi:  You have posted again and again that you see no reason for this discussion.  In every post you state that you find everything in the police and autopsy reports to be accurate.  

With all due respect I have to ask why you continue to post to this discussion?   You could just make one post saying that everything we are discussing is wrong and be done with it.  Maybe you are not aware that your replies have again and again seemed to be disrespectful to our right to even discuss the matter.  I don't think any of the other people in this thread enter their posts for the purpose of having an arguement with anyone.  If you would like to take a meaningful part in the discussion, it would be welcomed.  But since that does not seem to be the case, may I then sincerely ask, since your mind seems to be quite made up as you just posted again "You fail to find any purpose in discussing this,"  that you please act on your own decision.


Thank you!

I don't know where you get the nerve to even address me, much less with words such as respect, and you know EXACTLY what I'm referring to.

I NEVER posted anything of the sort "again and again", and STOP misquoting me.

[regi]

Antilles, on 31 January 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

regi, where did I get 26 from? You're right, she was 32. She had also been convicted of shoplifting in 2009. I'm just adding that because I've been back reading and I hadn't noticed that before. Nothing to do with her death, just interesting.

http://www.utsandieg...coon-boyfriend/

This is way back from the start of this thread. If Schaknai is so rich, why did she quit her job in December? To look after his kids? She was his girlfriend, not his nanny.

I don't know...I suppose Zahau did what she wanted to do.
I don't know what the arrangements were between Sacknai and his two former wives re: custody of their children. (From what I understand, he had a couple of older children from a first marriage, and then, Max from his second marriage.)
The older children had apparently been visiting for sometime up until the morning of the incident involving Max; Shacknai, with Max had taken the older children to the airport that very morning.
I think Zahau's sister had arrived in the days immediately previous to the incident for a two week visit.
Shacknai, Max, and Zahau had just arrived at the home themselves around Memorial day, and were to be there until around Labor Day.
Anyway...

Re: where you got 26 from. I don't know...Of course, I never make such errors
I do know that there's a lot of misinformation out there and you know, it's paramount to stay accurate.

Edited by regi, 31 January 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[regi]

Antilles, on 31 January 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Well, if there were cleet marks on the balcony DM, they wouldn't have been from her work shoes because she'd been working at an optometrist before she ditched her job. So, where did they come from?

Antilles, there weren't cleet marks.

From the autopsy report: "The floor of the balcony was very dirty, and two bare footprints consistent with the decedents dirty bare feet were visible in the dirt just outside the door frame, with heels together and the toes out in the shape of a "V". Toe prints, apparently from the right foot, were close to the balcony railing and with the point at which the rope hung over the balcony. Other than a clearly visible matched police officer's fresh boot print, no other foot or shoe prints were seen on the balcony. In other words, only footprints consistent with the decedent's bound feet were found on the balcony, and there were no other footprints (other than the officer's) or evidence of a struggle."

Edited by regi, 31 January 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[ouija ouija]

After spending many hours last night trawling through information about this case I have more questions and more thoughts about it:

There were two things which really stuck out. The first was: after driving myself nuts trying to imagine how Rebecca tied herself up, got herself to the balcony and then tipped herself over it, I suddenly thought "never mind the HOW what about the WHY!!". Why, why,WHY in heaven's name would Rebecca tie her ankles and wrists? In what way does that benefit her? All it does is hinder her efforts, surely? (Assuming she was trying to kill herself). I believe she was tied so that her murderer/murderers could better handle her .... same goes for being gagged.

The second big thing for me was: looking at an ariel view of the 'Sprenkels' property, there was quite a large house identified as 'Caretaker's living quarters', on the same 'block' as the balcony room and not many yards from it. Did Jonah Shacknai employ a caretaker(am I right in thinking this was only a summer home for the Shacknais?), and if he did, where was he/she at the time of either murder? If such a person was employed, presumably they would have keys for every lock on the property? Did this person(if they exist!), dislike Rebecca and/or Max? Were they in cahoots with one(or more), family member?

I tried to construct a 'Timeline' for some of the events of the night of the 12th/13th, but it was quite difficult because the reports I found contradicted themselves quite a bit. This is my best shot: on the evening of the 12th, Adam, Rebecca and Jonah went out to dinner together. Jonah returned to the hospital at 10pm. At 12:50am on the 13th, Jonah texted(?) Rebecca to tell her that Max had taken a turn for the worse and possibly wouldn't live for much longer. At 1:55am on 13th, Jonah left the hospital and got a room in a nearby hotel. Jonah returned to the hospital at 5:30 - 6am on the 13th. At 6:48am on the 13th, Adam texted Jonah to say Rebecca was dead. When police arrived at the scene, rigor mortis had already set into Rebecca's jaw, which suggested she had died approx. 3 to 4 hours earlier.

It seems odd to me that Jonah would take himself off to a hotel to sleep when less than an hour before he had been told that Max had 'deteriorated rapidly' and probably wouldn't live much longer .......... or at least that is what he told Rebecca (in a text), the situation was. Was this, in fact, not the case, but Jonah exaggerated Max's condition(in the text to her), so that when it(the text), was found it would appear to be a good reason for Rebecca to kill herself? (In fact this was repeatedly put forward as the only reason).  Jonah's pronouncement after Rebecca's death, that he had been planning to ask her to marry him(did he tell anyone else he was thinking of doing that?), would, as it were, 'cancel out' the possibility he was trying to 'tip her over the edge' into suicide by sending her an exaggerated text.

Concerning the length of rope used from the bed to Rebecca's neck ....... anyone else think it seems overly long? (Looking at what is left of it hanging over the balcony, seen from outside). I tried to put myself in the position of judging how much rope I would use so that I could be absolutely sure that my feet wouldn't touch the ground(and defeat the object of the exercise). I think I would try to have my head pretty close to the top of the railings, maybe 18" below.

The original autopsy stated that Rebecca was alive when she went over the railings and her neck injuries were consistent with a drop from that height. The second autopsy disputed this: 'If the body had plummeted down, the cervical vertebrae would have broken from the base of the skull'. Maybe she never was hanging, or maybe she was placed in position carefully by someone(possibly two people)?

Regarding the bare footprints on the balcony floor: they look kinda big for a 5' 3" woman! Did the police actually measure Rebecca's feet, I wonder? Or did they hold one of her shoes beside it? That wouldn't be very accurate. Could the prints have been made by one of Jonah's older children who had been staying at the house just a few days before? Was the dirt on Rebecca's feet from the path below the balcony, either from walking there or from when Adam cut her down? And what happened between her standing at the balcony doors(feet together at the heels, presumably tied), and the SINGLE footprint right close to the railings? She couldn't have tipped herself over the railings from the 'heels together' position, it's too far away. So how does a SINGLE footprint appear when her ankles are tied together? And she certainly couldn't have tied them after she'd fallen!

I think I'm right in saying that the police said that Rebecca had no marks on her body apart from little cuts on her toes(and presumably a mark around her neck?), and yet surely, when she was tipping herself over the wrought iron balcony railings, with her wrists and ankles tied, naked, she couldn't help but scratch and bruise her upper torso? If her hands and feet had been free she could have made the manoeuvre slowly and carefully, in stages.

Haha! I've just been doing some 're-enactments' of my own, over the back of my sofa! I stood behind the sofa and pretended it was the balcony railings, I clasped my hands together behind my back as if they were tied and clamped my ankles together. I can tell you that I am even more convinced that Rebecca could not have done what the police claim she did! I am 5' 6", so 3" taller than Rebecca, and my sofa back is quite a bit lower than the balcony railings(which I'm assuming are a decent height so that average-sized people can't fall over them easily ...... Rebecca was a small person), and yet I found it impossible to tip myself onto the sofa whilst my ankles and wrists were effectively 'tied up'. If you are forced to keep your legs together and your arms are fixed behind your back, you can't do the shift in balance and position required to have enough weight high enough up to tip you over.

Other bits and bobs that caught my attention:
Twins called 'Nina' and 'Dina'? Seriously? What were their parents thinking?

On 'Radarline' it mentioned that Max's neck was broken ........ anyone know if that is a fact?

Adam's polygraph test was declared 'inconclusive'. The Zanau family(I think), are pushing for him to take another test with different questions.

The police removed(amongst other items), a wooden table leg from the property. Presumably this was from the table just under the balcony ...... did it break because Adam or someone else stood on the table(and not necessarily to cut Rebecca down)? Adam said that he moved the table to be able to get to her body. I wonder if Rebecca was hit with the table leg? This assumes Adam was lying.

I wonder if Nina and Adam carried out the murder together? Remember Nina lied about the time(by over an hour), that she texted Rebecca on the evening/night of the 12th. (I wonder what size feet Nina has?!). They could certainly have carried Rebecca easily between them ....... especially with her ankles and wrists tied and a gag in her mouth to stop her screaming.

'She saved him can you save her' : does anyone know if this was literally painted over(on the door), or if the picture we see is photoshopped/digitally 'painted' over? Who is the 'she' and who is the 'him'?

The bedroom chair was lying on it's side, away from the balcony doors ........ don't know if this has any significance or not.

Were the balcony doors shut or open when Adam found Rebecca hanging?

Police made a thing out of Rebecca's DNA and fingerprints being all around the crime scene(i.e. the guest bedroom), well YEAH, she lived in that house! But also that her 'profile' was the only one there ....... how can that be when there had been at least half a dozen people staying there(up to the morning of Max's death). And so easy for the murderer/ murderers to wear gloves whilst committing the crime. Various latex gloves were taken from the house by the police.

Well, that's me done for now!