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Paris is Burning


Erikl

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PARIS, Nov. 2 -- Clashes between angry youths and French police spread to at least six Paris suburbs overnight, with police firing tear gas and rubber-coated bullets at street fighters who lobbed Molotov cocktails and burned cars and trash bins.

With unrest expanding through the northern suburbs of high-rise apartments that house some of France's poorest immigrant populations, senior government officials were debating how to curb the violence during Wednesday morning's weekly cabinet meeting.

The clashes began last Thursday after two African Muslim teenagers were electrocuted in the northeastern suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois while trying to evade police. On Sunday, as the street fighting continued, a police tear gas canister landed inside a mosque during Ramadan prayers, further inflaming the impoverished communities.

On Tuesday night, sporadic fighting crossed into the suburbs from Clichy-sous-Bois to Aulnay-sous-Bois where groups of youths threw stones at police in riot gear and torched 15 cars.

France-Info radio reported about 150 fires throughout the area, including 69 vehicles and dozens of garbage bins.

Adel Benna tried to put himself in the shoes of his shy 17-year-old brother, Ziad, and two teenage friends who scaled a wall and leapt into the cables of a power substation last Thursday evening -- willing to face electrocution rather than the French police officers they were trying to evade in this impoverished Paris suburb.

"Young people don't just throw themselves into an electrical current," Benna said Tuesday, his voice trembling in anger. "They looked behind them and saw something that made them so terrified, so desperate, they did it out of absolute fear. I hate the police. They are responsible for my brother's death."

Ziad Benna and his friend Bouna Traore, 15, sons of working-class African Muslim immigrants, were both electrocuted. A third youth survived.

It set off five days of rioting, firebombing and car burning that continued here at least through Tuesday.

Groups of young men have attacked postal service vans and a police station, and set fire to trash bins during the rampages. The French news media reported that about three dozen law enforcement officials and rioters have been injured in the violence.

The street fighting less than an hour's subway ride from the heart of Paris has underscored France's failed efforts to stem the growing unrest within a largely Muslim immigrant population that feels disenfranchised and is beset by high unemployment and crime. An estimated 6 million Muslims live in France, many of them in dismal high-rise enclaves like this one.

"It's unemployment, it's pressure -- it just exploded," Bouhout Abderrahmane, 54, who heads the local Muslim Cultural Association, said Tuesday morning, visibly exhausted after an all-night effort to quell the continuing violence in this town.

Many residents were outraged Sunday night when a police tear gas canister was thrown into a local mosque during prayers for Ramadan, the Muslim holy month. About 700 coughing and panicked worshipers ran for the doors.

Residents accused the police of deliberately attacking the mosque. French officials said they were investigating the incident, which occurred during police skirmishes with youths near the place of worship, a white concrete box of a building attached to a small grocery.

The violence focused criticism on Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, a prominent candidate in the 2007 presidential stakes. The week before the youths' deaths, he had announced "a war without mercy" on crime in the Paris suburbs.

Sarkozy, who has also called for affirmative action programs, fumbled in his initial response to the violence. He at first referred to the two dead boys as juvenile delinquents who were wanted in connection with a robbery, then amended that to say they were suspected of vandalizing a construction site.

On Monday, during a visit to the nearby police station, he said the youths were "not criminals" and had no criminal records, and promised a full investigation so that "everyone will know the truth."

In response to the crime problem in the suburbs, Sarkozy said he would deploy more police on the streets and dispatch more undercover agents to penetrate criminal gangs. He said he would start an experimental program in Clichy-sous-Bois to mount video cameras atop police cars to record the actions of suspects and to show that "police are behaving properly" during arrests.

Residents say more police will only exacerbate tensions.

"People are fed up with being controlled by cops, being stopped over and over," said Jean-Jacques Eyquem, a 53-year-old taxi driver who has lived in this town of 28,000 for most of his life.

"My brother paid the price of zero tolerance with his life," Adel Benna, brother of one of the dead youths, said in an interview, referring to Sarkozy's anti-crime mantra.

According to Benna, his brother and two other friends had been playing a game of pickup soccer and were on their way home to break the daily Ramadan fast last Thursday when they spotted a police checkpoint. Officers there were demanding identity papers, a common tactic in the high-crime neighborhoods of the Paris suburbs.

One of the boys had left his papers at home, Benna said. Hungry and fearful of being dragged into the police station after a day of fasting, they tried to dodge the checkpoint, Benna said.

Witnesses told the family that police began chasing the boys, according to Benna and other relatives. French officials have given several versions of the incident, with some officials saying that although the youths were not pursued by police, they believed they were being chased, and panicked. The teenager who survived, the son of Turkish immigrants, is undergoing surgery for severe burns, according to family members.

In a memorial march for the two youths over the weekend, a group of friends and neighbors wore white T-shirts emblazoned with the French words for "Dead for nothing."

Benna described his brother, Ziad, the youngest of five children, as "very shy, very nice, very helpful -- he was a good boy, the baby of the family."

Their father works for the city of Paris as a truck driver based just a block from the Eiffel Tower, in one of the city's most affluent neighborhoods. As he earned enough money over the years, he brought members of his family from their native Tunisia to live in the small apartment in a shabby, 11-story high-rise in Clichy-sous-Bois, which means Clichy Under the Woods. All signs of woods disappeared decades ago.

Ziad, who arrived four years ago, was struggling to learn French in school, Benna said. In a community where 25 percent of all heads of household are unemployed, Ziad was thrilled that his high school teacher had arranged for him to start a vocational training program this week, according to his brother.

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A burnt van as a result of the bloody clashes. (Reuters).

SOURCE

I don't know about you, but many here have been expecting this to happen sooner or later in France...

Edited by Erikl
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I really did not know anything about this, hav'nt seen anything on the News. They must of tried to dampen down to thr international press.

Many residents were outraged Sunday night when a police tear gas canister was thrown into a local mosque during prayers for Ramadan, the Muslim holy month. About 700 coughing and panicked worshipers ran for the doors.

Residents accused the police of deliberately attacking the mosque. French officials said they were investigating the incident, which occurred during police skirmishes with youths near the place of worship, a white concrete box of a building attached to a small grocery

This will not ring well around the country.

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I don't know about you, but many here have been expecting this to happen sooner or later in France...

Yes, but I've been all but crucified if I talk about it. Called racist, small minded, intolerant, ignorant... anti world peace or whatever.

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yup it had to happen sooner or later, the ignorant regressive muslim community fighting for its way, a girl was also set on fire...nice work!

don't these idiots realise that far rightwing groups are still incredibly active in europe and tha this ******** is just going to push public support in that extreme?

Edited by Richdog
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Paris braced for more rioting

Thursday, November 3, 2005; Posted: 1:41 p.m. EST (18:41 GMT)

PARIS, France (CNN) -- Police are bracing for another night of violence in the suburbs of Paris after officers and fire crews faced gunfire as they battled rioters who attacked a commuter train and set buses, a school and a car dealership ablaze.

Ministers were under growing pressure Thursday to deal with the unrest in the impoverished areas north and east of the French capital. The violence was triggered last week by the electrocution deaths of two teenagers.

"It's a dramatic situation. It is very serious and we fear that the events could even get worse tonight," said Francis Masanet, secretary general of a police union, according to Reuters.

The top government official in the Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris, where the violence has been concentrated, confirmed that four shots had been fired at police and fire crews in several overnight incidents.

"Four live bullets were fired," Reuters quoted Jean-Francois Cordet as telling reporters.

"Two shots were fired at La Courneuve against police. One shot was fired at Noisy-le-Sec against fire crews, and one shot was fired against fire crew in Saint-Denis."

No injuries were reported in the shootings, which appeared to mark an escalation of in the level of violence. But Cordet said four officers and two firefighters were hurt overnight, including one burned on the face by a petrol bomb.

Police detained 29 people, and 23 were still being held, he said.

More than 1,000 police were deployed to quell the unrest Wednesday night and early Thursday. Rampaging youths torched 177 vehicles, including two public buses, in at least nine towns.

In the northeastern suburb of Aulnay-sous-Bois, a Renault dealership was set on fire and at least a dozen cars were burned. A supermarket and local gymnasium were also torched, The Associated Press reported.

On a suburban commuter rail line linking Paris to Charles de Gaulle airport, service was suspended Thursday morning after rioters threw stones at two trains overnight at the Le Blanc-Mesnil station, AP quoted the SNCF rail authority as saying.

Rioters forced a conductor from one train and broke windows, SNCF said. A female passenger was slightly injured by broken glass.

A police union official proposed establishing a curfew and bringing in the military to help handle the rioting, while some members of the opposition Socialist Party have suggested the police should withdraw from the communities to quell the unrest.

The continuing violence adds pressure to Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who cancelled a trip to Canada to tackle the situation and soothe a public row between his ministers over the government's response.

On Thursday, de Villepin called a series of emergency meetings with officials throughout the day, including a working lunch with Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.

The situation has sparked a war of words between de Villepin and Sarkozy, his political rival ahead of 2007 presidential elections.

Speaking to parliament Wednesday, de Villepin demanded punishment for lawbreakers but used calmer language than that used by Sarkozy, who has been criticized for calling the protesting youths "scum."

"Let's avoid stigmatizing areas .... let's treat petty crime differently to major crime, let's fight all discrimination with firmness, and avoid confusing a disruptive minority with the vast majority of youngsters who want to integrate into society and succeed," he said.

Earlier Wednesday, President Jacques Chirac called for calm and warned of a "dangerous situation" in the capital's suburbs.

"The law must be applied firmly and in a spirit of dialogue and respect," Chirac told a Cabinet meeting Wednesday. "The absence of dialogue and an escalation of a lack of respect will lead to a dangerous situation."

"Zones without law cannot exist in the republic," Chirac said. His remarks were passed on to reporters by government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope.

The spokesman said Chirac acknowledged the "profound frustrations" of troubled neighborhoods but said violence was not the answer and that efforts must be stepped up to combat it, AP reported.

All but forgotten

The rioting began last Thursday in Clichy-sous-Bois after two teenagers were accidentally electrocuted and a third was injured while apparently trying to escape from police by hiding in a power substation. Officials have said police were not chasing the boys.

But the original cause has been all but forgotten as residents of other communities -- weary of poverty, unemployment and discrimination against the large immigrant and Muslim populations -- have vented their frustration.

In some areas, unemployment runs as high as 20 percent -- more than twice the national average, de Villepin told lawmakers.

Jean-Louis Borloo, minister for social cohesion, said officials need to react "firmly" to the unrest but that France also must acknowledge its failure to deal with decades of simmering anger in the impoverished suburbs of Paris.

"We cannot hide the truth: that for 30 years we have not done enough," he told France-2 television, AP reported.

Borloo also urged people not to have a one-sided view of the suburbs.

"One must not think for one second that this is the life of these neighborhoods," Reuters quoted him as saying. "They are an integral part of our country. It is in these neighborhoods that most companies are being founded."

CNN's Jim Bittermann contributed to this report

Copyright 2005 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.

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don't these idiots realise that far rightwing groups are still incredibly active in europe and tha this bull**** is just going to push public support in that extreme?

The thing is, that this time, those radical right-wingers would actually be right when they'll say those people are a threat.

Back in WW2 the minority groups in Europe didn't fight against their own countries - they were loyal citizens.

One must guess what would have happened if the Jews and Gypsies would have acted more like the Muslims, rioting and calling for different european countries to be destroyed - maybe then the holocaust would have been prevented out of fear of the ordinary German from the wrath of the angry jewish\gypsy mob.

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The thing is, that this time, those radical right-wingers would actually be right when they'll say those people are a threat.

of course, these north africans are not only screwing things up for themselves, but also for those who have assimilated, who do love france. The far right isn't going to differentiate:(

maybe then the holocaust would have been prevented out of fear of the ordinary German from the wrath of the angry jewish\gypsy mob.

nah, i blame the proponants of multiculturalism and the strange self-loathing you find in many of the leftwing. Of course its the WEST that is causing this etc etc it isn't their fault

Edited by bathory
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Entering week 2 of riots... purely amazing how the goverment hasn't cracked a whip at them. :blink:

They wanted to be heard... well... now it's world news about their riots.

Edited by __Kratos__
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The riots have to be seen and analyzed in the context of the deeply rooted economic, political and social problems France faces today. It's easy to jump on the occasion and bash the Muslims as usual, but unfortunately, that does not help at all to understand the underlying issues involved. We call that method 'going fishing in troubled waters' (an old Persian proverb), because the purpose of such people in this case is to use the occasion to spread blind hatred against Muslims; not understanding the problems and finding viable solutions that would bring peace for the French. In fact the fishers don't really care what happens to France and the French, all they're interested in is to hate, and use what in reality is a very sad situation for all of France to spread that hatred around. What is really outragous is the fact that some people find justifications in the ways of the extreme right-wing fascists as long as they are spitting their hatred against the Muslim community as a whole; disgusting! <_<

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The riots have to be seen and analyzed in the context of the deeply rooted economic, political and social problems France faces today. It's easy to jump on the occasion and bash the Muslims as usual, but unfortunately, that does not help at all to understand the underlying issues involved. We call that method 'going fishing in troubled waters' (an old Persian proverb), because the purpose of such people in this case is to use the occasion to spread blind hatred against Muslims; not understanding the problems and finding viable solutions that would bring peace for the French. In fact the fishers don't really care what happens to France and the French, all they're interested in is to hate, and use what in reality is a very sad situation for all of France to spread that hatred around. What is really outragous is the fact that some people find justifications in the ways of the extreme right-wing fascists as long as they are spitting their hatred against the Muslim community as a whole; disgusting! <_<

I actually do not blame Islam. I blame the French government.

I blame it of hypocricy, of being blind and think that by being overall pro-Arab they could avoid Islamists from rioting.

I blame them and I have been expecting these very scenes to happen years ago.

They thought the Middle Eastern conflict was just that - a Middle Eastern conflict.

The truth is that there are movements inside the Arab and Muslim world who despise the West and attack certain western middle-eastern countries solely for the fact that they are westerneners.

Americans, after the tragic and awful events 4 years ago, are now starting to understand that. But the truth is that America is pretty much safe. Bin Laden was quite smart, if you look at the overall picture. Sure, he now has the most powerfull nation in the world after him, but he knew Europe, already pretty much anti-American, would try to align itself as an American criticiser rather than completely cooperate in the war on terrorism.

The only country to actually fully participate in this conflict is Britain (and some Eastern European countries which do not have large muslim population anyhow).

The Western European countries have portrayed themselves as anti-Bush, anti-War on terrorism, etc. This enabled continued muslim immigration into western europe and the conversion of western europe into part of the muslim world (this WASN'T something planned by the immigrants ofcourse, who only immigrate to Europe to find better life and because they can, this was planned by islamist groups such as Al-Qaeda, who wish to see these immigrants keep coming in the millions and not assimilating).

France is now 10% muslim (officially... it is predicted that there are as much as 18% but many of them are illegal immigrants and so are not registered as living in France). None muslims french population is shrinking, and many french girls marrying un-assimilated muslims are converting to islam. Overall, if things wouldn't change, muslims would become 50% in 20 years, maybe 30. It doesn't matter though, cause if so many would continue to not integrate, then even 30% muslims organized under an islamic party could take the elections and then you'll have Sharia law in France.

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Erikl, has Zephyr said, the main problem is not the religion of the rioting, but the conditions that caused the riotings. These youngs are third/generation descendants of inmigrants in france. The economic crisis and the high cost of living pushed their families to poor neighbordhoods, where if you live there your probabilities of getting job reduce greatly (we have the same problem in argentina) . These youngs comes from poor homes, seeing their amilies in opverty, whiout hope, whiout a viable future. They are in dispair, the fear the future, they are angry, and sadly, they found refuge and disipline in religion. In this case, Islam.

What i want to say? The ocurrence of these people rioting is not because of them beign descendants of islam people or islamist thenselfs, but to the manuvers of certan organizations.

If the situation was diferent, and the rioting would be jew, or budhist, what you would say?

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Erikl, has Zephyr said, the main problem is not the religion of the rioting, but the conditions that caused the riotings. These youngs are third/generation descendants of inmigrants in france. The economic crisis and the high cost of living pushed their families to poor neighbordhoods, where if you live there your probabilities of getting job reduce greatly (we have the same problem in argentina) . These youngs comes from poor homes, seeing their amilies in opverty, whiout hope, whiout a viable future. They are in dispair, the fear the future, they are angry, and sadly, they found refuge and disipline in religion. In this case, Islam.

What i want to say? The ocurrence of these people rioting is not because of them beign descendants of islam people or islamist thenselfs, but to the manuvers of certan organizations.

If the situation was diferent, and the rioting would be jew, or budhist, what you would say?

As I said, I blame the french government, not the people rioting themselves.

I actually do not blame Islam. I blame the French government.
.

I also blame the french government of allowing multi-culturism as a result of european pressure.

Normally french had a policy of "frenching" every immigrant group and making them fully french. They didn't do enough in this case. Now you have a nation within a nation.

Indeed some immigrants who have been assimilated are now fully french, just adhere different religion. Many other immigrants have been enabled to hold to their foreign culture and now do not have anything to do with France other than living in it.

The same is happening in my country. In the past, a french-like "fusion pot" was the policy - every immigrant group would have been encouraged to assimilate and become part of the Hebrew culture.

As of the mid-1980s, this policy has been dropped, and now you have 20% of the population speaking and living in a middle eastern branch of Russia.

Not that I have a problem with it, because my father is a Russian Jew, but those immigrants from the USSR that came in the beginning of the 1990s haven't been assimilated at all and are now part of somewhat another ethnic minority.

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Prime Minister Sarkozy yesterday said the rioting "was not spontaneous, it was perfectly organized -- we are looking into by whom and how."

So yeah, they need to look at the "conditions of the rioting" and these"certain organizations" Mekorig is talking about.

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Its easy: poor living conditions + discrimination + no support from the state to get an start + discontent + any organization whit a minimal coordination, manpower and conection in the comunity = BIG TROUBLE. I can see problems like it in UK too.

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Its easy: poor living conditions + discrimination + no support from the state to get an start + discontent + any organization whit a minimal coordination, manpower and conection in the comunity = BIG TROUBLE. I can see problems like it in UK too.

I blame too much multi-culturism.

You can't give any minority group it's own autonomy, eventually it'll blow in your face.

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nah, i blame the proponants of multiculturalism and the strange self-loathing you find in many of the leftwing.

How come with you it always comes done to the leftwing? :huh: Multiculturalism it not a left or right issue and there many moderate right-wingers who support it. In fact in the UK, multiculturalism was the pet project of the rightwing Conservatives because they didn't want to live next to blacks, so they had a 'great idea' of making them live in their own communities. And there are many leftwingers like myself who see multiculturalism for what it is - Aparthied with a friendly face - but still segregation.

I blame too much multi-culturism.

You can't give any minority group it's own autonomy, eventually it'll blow in your face.

Thats true. Being isolated and with no connection to the European country they are born into its obvious that it would breed extremism.

Edited by Talon
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Disabled Woman Set Ablaze

Updated: 12:36, Friday November 04, 2005

A handicapped woman was doused with petrol and set on fire by youths during another night of rioting in Paris.

The 56-year-old suffered third degree burns to 20% of her body in the attack.

Witnesses said a youth poured petrol over the woman and then threw a Molotov cocktail on to the bus she was travelling on in the suburb of Sevran.

Other passengers were able to flee but she was unable to escape because of her disabilities.

It was the worst incident so far in more than a week of rioting.

For the first time, there were also signs of copycat rampages elsewhere in France.

Police said several cars in the eastern city of Dijon were set alight, while similar attacks took place in the western Seine-Maritime region and the Bouches-du-Rhone in the south of the country.

More than 160 cars were reportedly torched in the Paris region, as well as 33 in the provinces.

But police said the night seemed calmer than the one before, when 315 vehicles were burnt in the Ile-de-France region around the capital.

Buses, fire engines and police were again stoned in the Paris suburbs, with five policemen reported slightly injured.

However, there were fewer direct confrontations between police and "troublemakers".

One of the worst incidents took place at Neuilly-sur-Marne where police vans came under fire from pellet pistols, but nobody was hurt.

Neuilly-sur-Marne is in the worst-hit northeastern region of Seine-Saint-Denis, where 1,300 officers were deployed, and more than 30 people were arrested there and elsewhere.

The rioting is a direct challenge to the authority of the French government and to Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin in particular.

On Thursday he told parliament authorities "will not give in" to the violence and will make restoring order their "absolute top priority".

SOURCE

This is going too far... we are witnessing a French Intifada of France's muslims.

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Here it is - the French Intifada is now entering day nine....

Violence flares again in France, deepening sense of crisis

PARIS (AFP) - Arson attacks flared overnight around Paris and police made more than 30 arrests as the worst violence the capital has seen in decades dragged on into its ninth straight night.

Two textile warehouses and a car showroom were set on fire to the northeast of the city, while some 180 vehicles were torched in the Paris region.

A fire-bomb was also thrown against the wall of a synagogue in the northern suburb of Pierrefitte-sur-Seine, police said.

At least 30 people were arrested, including some minors found to be carrying material to make incendiary bombs.

Similar scenes were also reported in the northern city of Lille, the western city of Rennes and in Toulouse, in the southwest.

The gangs of youths from low-income, high-immigration neighbourhoods blamed for the violence largely ditched their earlier tactics of pelting police with stones, bottles and Molotov cocktails, preferring instead to run away after setting the fires.

The new round rampages came just hours after Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin held a crisis meeting with Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy on the riots, which are the worst since a 1968 student revolt.

Villepin also met a group of suburban youths for two and a half hours in his office to discuss the situation and hear their grievances.

Much of the fury in the streets, though, has been aimed at Sarkozy and his hardline policies aimed at cleaning up the crime-ridden suburbs with, as he put it, "a power-hose."

Shots have been fired at riot police, without causing injury, and at least three people -- including a handicapped woman -- have been badly burnt by Molotov cocktails.

The enduring troubles have dealt Sarkozy's ambition of running in 2007 presidential elections a heavy blow. Many of the youths in the disaffected suburbs have called for his resignation over his description of them as "rabble" -- a demand echoed Friday by the opposition Communist and Greens parties.

The riots were sparked October 27, when two teenagers were electrocuted in a tough, low-income suburb north of Paris as they hid in an electrical sub-station to flee a police identity check.

Since then, they have spread every night. On Thursday, copycat violence occurred in Marseille, Dijon and in Normandy.

Overwhelmed police have found themselves powerless to stop the conflagration, which has seen a total of over 1,000 vehicles torched and more than 200 people arrested.

Those responsible are groups of young Muslim men, the sons of families from France's former Arab and African colonial territories, who have said in interviews that they are protesting economic misery, racial discrimination and provocative policing.

The leader of one police union, Bruno Beschizza, has described the riots as "urban terrorism", but Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe of the opposition Socialist Party warned against hastily lumping together "one religion, Islam, and a few extremists" in apportioning blame.

SOURCE

Edited by Erikl
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French rioters calling for reorganization of France into separate religious enclaves

WHY PARIS IS BURNING

By AMIR TAHERI Fri Nov 4, 6:00 AM ET

AS THE night falls, the "troubles" start — and the pattern is always the same.

Bands of youths in balaclavas start by setting fire to parked cars, break shop windows with baseball bats, wreck public telephones and ransack cinemas, libraries and schools. When the police arrive on the scene, the rioters attack them with stones, knives and baseball bats.

The police respond by firing tear-gas grenades and, on occasions, blank shots in the air. Sometimes the youths fire back — with real bullets.

These scenes are not from the West Bank but from 20 French cities, mostly close to Paris, that have been plunged into a European version of the intifada that at the time of writing appears beyond control.

The troubles first began in Clichy-sous-Bois, an underprivileged suburb east of Paris, a week ago. France's bombastic interior minister, Nicholas Sarkozy, responded by sending over 400 heavily armed policemen to "impose the laws of the republic," and promised to crush "the louts and hooligans" within the day. Within a few days, however, it had dawned on anyone who wanted to know that this was no "outburst by criminal elements" that could be handled with a mixture of braggadocio and batons.

By Monday, everyone in Paris was speaking of "an unprecedented crisis." Both Sarkozy and his boss, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, had to cancel foreign trips to deal with the riots.

How did it all start? The accepted account is that sometime last week, a group of young boys in Clichy engaged in one of their favorite sports: stealing parts of parked cars.

Normally, nothing dramatic would have happened, as the police have not been present in that suburb for years.

The problem came when one of the inhabitants, a female busybody, telephoned the police and reported the thieving spree taking place just opposite her building. The police were thus obliged to do something — which meant entering a city that, as noted, had been a no-go area for them.

Once the police arrived on the scene, the youths — who had been reigning over Clichy pretty unmolested for years — got really angry. A brief chase took place in the street, and two of the youths, who were not actually chased by the police, sought refuge in a cordoned-off area housing a power pylon. Both were electrocuted.

Once news of their deaths was out, Clichy was all up in arms.

With cries of "God is great," bands of youths armed with whatever they could get hold of went on a rampage and forced the police to flee.

The French authorities could not allow a band of youths to expel the police from French territory. So they hit back — sending in Special Forces, known as the CRS, with armored cars and tough rules of engagement.

Within hours, the original cause of the incidents was forgotten and the issue jelled around a demand by the representatives of the rioters that the French police leave the "occupied territories." By midweek, the riots had spread to three of the provinces neighboring Paris, with a population of 5.5 million.

But who lives in the affected areas? In Clichy itself, more than 80 percent of the inhabitants are Muslim immigrants or their children, mostly from Arab and black Africa. In other affected towns, the Muslim immigrant community accounts for 30 percent to 60 percent of the population. But these are not the only figures that matter. Average unemployment in the affected areas is estimated at around 30 percent and, when it comes to young would-be workers, reaches 60 percent.

In these suburban towns, built in the 1950s in imitation of the Soviet social housing of the Stalinist era, people live in crammed conditions, sometimes several generations in a tiny apartment, and see "real French life" only on television.

The French used to flatter themselves for the success of their policy of assimilation, which was supposed to turn immigrants from any background into "proper Frenchmen" within a generation at most.

That policy worked as long as immigrants came to France in drips and drops and thus could merge into a much larger mainstream. Assimilation, however, cannot work when in most schools in the affected areas, fewer than 20 percent of the pupils are native French speakers.

France has also lost another powerful mechanism for assimilation: the obligatory military service abolished in the 1990s.

As the number of immigrants and their descendants increases in a particular locality, more and more of its native French inhabitants leave for "calmer places," thus making assimilation still more difficult.

In some areas, it is possible for an immigrant or his descendants to spend a whole life without ever encountering the need to speak French, let alone familiarize himself with any aspect of the famous French culture.

The result is often alienation. And that, in turn, gives radical Islamists an opportunity to propagate their message of religious and cultural apartheid.

Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the population to be reorganized on the basis of the "millet" system of the Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right to organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its religious beliefs.

In parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place. In these areas, all women are obliged to wear the standardized Islamist "hijab" while most men grow their beards to the length prescribed by the sheiks.

The radicals have managed to chase away French shopkeepers selling alcohol and pork products, forced "places of sin," such as dancing halls, cinemas and theaters, to close down, and seized control of much of the local administration.

A reporter who spent last weekend in Clichy and its neighboring towns of Bondy, Aulnay-sous-Bois and Bobigny heard a single overarching message: The French authorities should keep out.

"All we demand is to be left alone," said Mouloud Dahmani, one of the local "emirs" engaged in negotiations to persuade the French to withdraw the police and allow a committee of sheiks, mostly from the Muslim Brotherhood, to negotiate an end to the hostilities.

President Jacques Chirac and Premier de Villepin are especially sore because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of

Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim community.

That illusion has now been shattered — and the Chirac administration, already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be clueless about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a "ticking time bomb."

It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.

So what is the solution? One solution, offered by Gilles Kepel, an adviser to Chirac on Islamic affairs, is the creation of "a new Andalusia" in which Christians and Muslims would live side by side and cooperate to create a new cultural synthesis.

The problem with Kepel's vision, however, is that it does not address the important issue of political power. Who will rule this new Andalusia: Muslims or the largely secularist Frenchmen?

Suddenly, French politics has become worth watching again, even though for the wrong reasons.

Amir Taheri, editor of the French quarterly "Politique internationale," is a member of Benador Associates.

SOURCE

Edited by Erikl
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French riots spread outside Paris

By Kerstin Gehmlich Fri Nov 4,10:26 AM ET

AULNAY-SOUS-BOIS, France (Reuters) - Rioters set fire to hundreds of vehicles in impoverished suburbs of northeastern Paris in an eighth night of unrest that spread for the first time to other parts of the capital and towns in France.

Local officials said they had lost patience with the government. Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin and his rival, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, opted for low profiles after days of squabbling over how to handle the crisis.

Police reported fewer clashes than previous nights and residents said the Eid al-Fitr holiday ending Ramadan may have calmed areas with many Muslims of North African and black African origin who feel treated as second-class citizens.

But the rioting spread, with some attacks reported in western Paris suburbs -- including the spectacular burning of 23 buses at a depot -- and a few cars firebombed around Rouen in northern France, Dijon in the east and Marseille in the south.

The pattern of violence also changed, shifting from crowds clashing with police to targeted arson attacks, many against businesses and warehouses.

"I've had enough of this," said an angry woman wearing a headscarf in Aulnay-sous-Bois, a northeastern Paris suburb where a large warehouse was burned down overnight. "This must stop quickly. It's just not right."

Mayors from the riot-hit areas were also exasperated after Villepin briefed them on Thursday evening about an "action plan for the suburbs" he aims to present later this month.

"Many of us told him this isn't the time for an umpteenth plan," said Jean-Christophe Lagarde, mayor of Drancy. "All we need is one death and I think it will get out of control."

"IMMENSE VIOLENCE"

Justice Minister Pascal Clement was visibly shaken after being briefed about a handicapped woman in her 50s who was badly burned on Wednesday evening when rioters poured petrol on a city bus she was riding in and set it ablaze.

"This is immense violence," he told reporters in Bobigny, another town in the Seine Saint Denis department between central Paris and Charles de Gaulle airport that has been the worst hit. "I think all French are shocked to see things like this."

With the blazing suburbs making headlines around the world, Foreign Ministry spokesman Jean-Baptiste Mattei complained about foreign coverage of the riots -- without naming any media -- and said foreign tourists were not in danger.

"One is sometimes surprised at the international coverage of these events," he told reporters. "These are very serious incidents ... but we are very far from such a serious situation as some commentaries or television reports lead one to think."

Officials in Seine Saint Denis said 187 vehicles had been destroyed there overnight. Police detained 27 people and reported two injuries.

French media said up to 600 vehicles were destroyed in the whole greater Paris region, including 23 buses at a terminal in Trappes in the southwest near Versailles. An amateur video aired on television showed them all in a row and all in flames.

Security officials said the presence of hundreds of riot police had acted as a deterrent, but rioters nevertheless set fire to two textile warehouses, a bus depot and a school.

"Why a school, why a car? What can you say about such blind violence," one local mayor, Michel Beaumale, said.

FEAR OF VIOLENCE SPREADING

Villepin spent Friday out of public view in his Matignon offices. Mayors who criticized him expressed concern the rioting could spread to other cities with similar suburbs that keep the poor far from rich city centers.

Manuel Valls, mayor of Evry south of the capital, said: "We're afraid that what's happening in Seine Saint Denis will spread. We have to give these people a message of hope."

Rioting among young men of North African and black African origin -- mostly locally born citizens who feel cheated by France's official promises of liberty, equality and fraternity -- began last week after two teenagers of African origin died while fleeing the police.

Villepin and Sarkozy, whose bitter political rivalry has overshadowed the government's reaction, teamed up on Thursday to announce that restoring order was their "absolute priority."

Villepin blamed the riots on gangs he said terrorized residents and sought to keep police out of their districts, and vowed law and order would be restored.

In several interviews on Friday morning, conservative politicians said drug traffickers and Islamist militants were fanning the unrest, although they gave no details.

SOURCE

Edited by Erikl
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It is France, and in my opinion these folks can't just tell the government that they now want their own little section of the country. The immigrants are just that; immigrants. They chose to move to the area that they are in; they were not forced.

If they do not like it, get the heck out and quit acting like savages. They are not exactly helping their point now, and if it is going anything like Noew Orleans I would imagine that there are plenty of big screen TV's missing from storefronts :rolleyes:

To a lesser degree the same thing happens in the US on a regular basis. people move in from other countries in large numbers and instead of assimilating into the culture they decide to create their own little country. There are public streets in Orange county california where an english speaking person can't read a single sign, as everything is in spanish or vietnamese.

It is rediculous in my opinion.

If I were on the french police department I would have gotten rid of the rubber bullets long ago in exchange for the real thing.

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Prime Minister Sarkozy yesterday said the rioting "was not spontaneous, it was perfectly organized -- we are looking into by whom and how."

So yeah, they need to look at the "conditions of the rioting" and these"certain organizations" Mekorig is talking about.

Sarkozy is not the prime minister, he is the interior minister. Many in France see his remarks and policies as the trigger for the current riots, the communists have even called for his resignation. He seems to have goofed a little in his political manouvering, he hopes to be the next president of France! :w00t:

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How come with you it always comes done to the leftwing? huh.gif Multiculturalism it not a left or right issue and there many moderate right-wingers who support it. In fact in the UK, multiculturalism was the pet project of the rightwing Conservatives because they didn't want to live next to blacks, so they had a 'great idea' of making them live in their own communities. And there are many leftwingers like myself who see multiculturalism for what it is - Aparthied with a friendly face - but still segregation.

i'm not saying multiculturalism is a left or rightwing problem, i was refering to certain sections of the leftwing that are too quick to blame whitey for the problems and actions of minority groups, surely you see this kind of discourse bandied around, just because you don't adhere to it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As for your summation of multiculturalism, i totally agree.

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13 Cars Torched As Unrest Reaches Paris

Nov 05 8:46 PM US/Eastern

By ELAINE GANLEY

Associated Press Writer

PARIS

The urban unrest that triggered scores of arson attacks on vehicles, nursery schools and other targets across France reached the capital overnight, with police saying early Sunday that 13 cars were burned.

By 1 a.m., at least 607 vehicles were burned _ including those in Paris, said Patrick Hamon, spokesman for the national police. The overall figures were expected to climb by daybreak, he added.

The violence _ originally concentrated in neighborhoods northeast of Paris with large immigrant populations _ has spread across France during the past 10 nights, extending west to the rolling fields of Normandy and south to resort cities on the Mediterranean.

In the Normandy town of Evreux, arsonists burned at least 50 vehicles, part of a shopping center, a post office and two schools, Hamon said.

Five police officers and three firefighters were injured battling the blazes, he said.

The unrest is forcing France to confront long-simmering anger in its suburbs, where many Africans and their French-born children live on society's margins, struggling with unemployment, poor housing, racial discrimination, crime and a lack of opportunity.

The violence that began Oct. 27 in a suburb northeast of Paris took an alarming turn late Saturday when arsonists struck in the French capital.

Hamon had no immediate information on the Paris neighborhoods where the vehicles were torched. Paris police headquarters said three cars were damaged by fire in the Republique section, northeast of City Hall.

Hamon called the spreading arson "copycat" acts by vandals.

"It's copycat acts," he said. "All these hoodlums see others setting fires and say they can do it, too."

Evreux, 60 miles to the west, appeared hardest hit by marauding youths. The number of vehicles burned likely would top 50, Hamon said.

The burning of the shopping center showed that "there is a will to pillage," Hamon said. "This has been true since the start," referring to grocery stores, video stores and other businesses that have been set afire.

___

Associated Press reporter John Leicester in Acheres contributed to this report.

SOURCE

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