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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2506    Abramelin

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:55 PM

View PostApol, on 25 February 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Yes, that's a problem - but you are solving it, as you have been here all the time and remember what has been posted, You're really a living library in that way.
The thread you have linked to is very interesting - I will study it thoroughly in the coming days. Thank you.

I should have added that it wasn't just me saying, "hey, I was first" or something stupid, but that you can read up about it and then we continue the same discussion if there is a need to.

By that we save a lot of repeating old posts; this part -2- of the OLB thread is already growing quite large again.


#2507    Abramelin

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostKnul, on 25 February 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

This is extremely important, because it would mean that the name Magjari in the OLB has been badly chosen and has nothing to do with the Magyars or Hungary and that it would be just a title, something like king in the Northern countries.

I remember Willem van Haren in his epic poem about Friso used the term "de Mager". That didn't mean 'people who are 'mager' or thin in English, but the Persian  'Magi'

http://www.unexplain...85#entry3768755


.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 February 2013 - 07:13 PM.


#2508    Abramelin

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:44 PM

I found something odd:

Posted Image

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

You can read in the Yule circles: WRALDA , T-ANFANG, T-BIJIN.

Or Wralda, The Start/Beginning, The Start/Beginning.

*bi-je-n-n, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Beginn, Anfang; ne. beginning (N.);

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-B.pdf

I have posted about the first Yule circle (with the letters W-R-A-L-D-A positioned around it) being almost equal to the Biblical "I am the Alpha and the Omega" combined with the Chi-Rho symbol, the Pax Christi symbol, which is often depicted with an apha left and an omega right of the "P", or the Kroder in the OLB.:

http://www.unexplain...20#entry3904889

From the post I linked to:


Posted Image
(and notice what I made of the semi-circle of the -P- : a wheelbarrow, or Kroder)

Posted Image

But in fact the OLB suggest something like Wralda, the Beginning/Start, and the Beginning/Start.

Kind of odd if you ask me...

I am looking for clues, hints in the OLB.

Someone wanted certain people to receive a message. Fellow Masons, maybe?



.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 February 2013 - 08:02 PM.


#2509    Abramelin

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 February 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

<snip>

From the post I linked to:


Posted Image
(and notice what I made of the semi-circle of the -P- : a wheelbarrow, or Kroder)

<snip>


And this is the Little Dipper, a 'heavenly' wheelbarrow:

Posted Image

The Kroder from the OLB carries time around the Yule Wheel.

The Fryans were stargazers, but what did the one(s) writing the OLB mean with all this?

I am convinced we should look for some hidden message in the text, and a cryptographer or a Freemason would be of great help for solving the puzzle.


+++

EDIT:

Posted Image
Posted Image


The Cassiopeia constellation looks very much like an OLB -W- , and the Cepheus constellation looks like an OLB -A- .

And all circling around Polaris.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 February 2013 - 09:15 PM.


#2510    Knul

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

View PostApol, on 25 February 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yes, it was certainly a title - it appears as a title in the OLB also, as "the Magí" is mentioned across centuries. It must have been a lot of them in succession.

But I can't see, however, why this name should have been badly chosen - the Magíara was a ruling priestly caste. One part of it may have settled in Hungary as well as another one in Scandinavia.

The genetic and linguistic relationship between the Fins and the Hungarians have been elaborated by the end of the 19th Century. The OLB does not refer to such relationship neither. The Carpathian magyars in Hungary were an isolated group as compared to the finnugrian settlements along the Volga-river up to Finland. So, the word magi may be derived from finnugrian, but is aplied in the northern areas only as you pointed at.
The funny thing is, that Ottema referred to Buda as to Budapest making the magyars originating from Frisian blood, which of course cannot being the case.


#2511    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:31 PM

According to "the history of Armenia " the Magi were originally a tribe of the Medes, further down the Volga , to what became Persia.


#2512    The Puzzler

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:27 AM

The Hungarians may have split from the main Ugric branch in the 1st millenium BC. The word could simply mean 'those who speak' - which in the way it's introduced in the OLB makes perfect sense. The priests spoke, no one else did, the general others were the Magyar Magy-ar - men (people, followers) of those who spoke. They had no other name, until named Finns.

The origin of the "Magyar" expression (the self-definition of the Hungarians) could prove the period when the separation of the proto-Hungarians and the groups speaking proto-Ob-Ugric languages took place, but there are several theories on its origins; the word may be composed of two parts (magy and ar)[1] or it may have been borrowed from a proto-Iranian language.[14]
Words similar to the proposed magy element of the word are also used by the Khanty and Mansi peoples (referring to one of their groups /mos/ or to themselves /mansi/ respectively) which suggest that it is of Ugric origin and it possibly means "those who speak".[1] The assumed ar element of the word may be either of Ugric or Turkic origin and it probably means "man".[1][3] Those who assume that the expression ar originated from a Turkic language, also think that it may refer to a Turkic tribe that joined to a group of the proto-Ugric peoples and thus the two groups formed the Magyar people.

http://en.wikipedia....rian_prehistory

It may be the Magi of Persia and other areas were derived from this group of men priests who had travelled or however joined into other realms, Persia, Chaldea etc rather than being another different priestly caste.

Edited by The Puzzler, 27 February 2013 - 04:28 AM.

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#2513    Apol

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:25 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 February 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

I found something odd:

Posted Image

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

You can read in the Yule circles: WRALDA , T-ANFANG, T-BIJIN.

Or Wralda, The Start/Beginning, The Start/Beginning.

*bi-je-n-n, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Beginn, Anfang; ne. beginning (N.);

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-B.pdf

I have posted about the first Yule circle (with the letters W-R-A-L-D-A positioned around it) being almost equal to the Biblical "I am the Alpha and the Omega" combined with the Chi-Rho symbol, the Pax Christi symbol, which is often depicted with an apha left and an omega right of the "P", or the Kroder in the OLB.:

http://www.unexplain...20#entry3904889

From the post I linked to:


Posted Image
(and notice what I made of the semi-circle of the -P- : a wheelbarrow, or Kroder)

Posted Image

But in fact the OLB suggest something like Wralda, the Beginning/Start, and the Beginning/Start.

Kind of odd if you ask me...

I am looking for clues, hints in the OLB.

Someone wanted certain people to receive a message. Fellow Masons, maybe?



.

Yes, 'Abramelin', that's quite a strange concurrence. One can ask if it is accidental, or not.
I don't believe in your wheelbarrow, though,,,

Edited by Apol, 27 February 2013 - 06:14 AM.


#2514    Apol

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:06 AM

View PostKnul, on 26 February 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

The genetic and linguistic relationship between the Fins and the Hungarians have been elaborated by the end of the 19th Century. The OLB does not refer to such relationship neither. The Carpathian magyars in Hungary were an isolated group as compared to the finnugrian settlements along the Volga-river up to Finland. So, the word magi may be derived from finnugrian, but is aplied in the northern areas only as you pointed at.
The funny thing is, that Ottema referred to Buda as to Budapest making the magyars originating from Frisian blood, which of course cannot being the case.

Yes, Ottema's placing of Bvda in Budapest is near to ridiculous - Fryasland's core area didn't stretch near to that far. And Overwijn dosn't make the solution any more credible by placing it only a little closer - in České Budějovice (Budweis) in the Czech Republic.

I have made a lot of pondering around where Bvda could have been situated. What I have come up with, is that Bvda may have been the original spelling of Bata, which certainly is a Roman transliteration - placing the burgh of Bvda somewhere in the Batavian area. There are several places up the river (or near to it) from their capital Batavodorum (which may have been either Nijmegen or Wijk bij Duurstede) starting with Büde- and the like; for instance the quarters of Büderich ('Bvda-Reich') in both Meerbusch, Wesel and Werl. Though, their capital or burgh might have been the site of Batavodorum.

Edited by Apol, 27 February 2013 - 06:12 AM.


#2515    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:14 AM

Quote from the OLB:

Ther Saxman Storo, Sytjas man, grêvetman ovir-a hâga fenna aend walda. Njvgun wâra is-er to hêrtoga, thaet is to hyrman, kêren. Tha burga Bvda aend Manna-gârda-forda send vnder sin hod.

The Saxman Storo, Sytia’s husband; Grevetman over the high fens and woods. Nine times he was chosen as duke or heerman . The burghs Buda and Manna-garda-forda are under his care.



The High Fens (French: Hautes Fagnes; German: Hohes Venn; Dutch: Hoge Venen), which were declared a nature reserve in 1957, are an upland area, a plateau region in the province of Liège, in the east of Belgium and adjoining parts of Germany, between the Ardennes and the Eifel highlands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Fens
http://www.naturpark...ohesvenn_eifel/

Manna-gârda-forda = Münster

Mimigernaford
http://de.wikipedia....ter_(Westfalen)

Mimigernaford - Mimegardeford. Die ursprünglichen Namen der Stadt Münster
(The original name of the city of Münster)

http://epub.uni-regensburg.de/24584/



Bvda:

It's not just Bvda/Buda, it's the burgh of Buda or the Budaburgh.

It's the place after which the Bodensee is named.


Aus der Völkerwanderungszeit stammt nordöstlich des Dorfes auf halber Bergeshöhe bei der „Bodenburg“ ein alemannisches Reihengräberfeld

From the migration period northeast of the village at half height in the mountains near the "Bodenburg" originates an Alemannic cemetery

http://de.wikipedia....an-Ludwigshafen

http://en.wikipedia..../Lake_Constance

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 February 2013 - 08:26 AM.


#2516    Apol

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:22 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 27 February 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Quote from the OLB:

Ther Saxman Storo, Sytjas man, grêvetman ovir-a hâga fenna aend walda. Njvgun wâra is-er to hêrtoga, thaet is to hyrman, kêren. Tha burga Bvda aend Manna-gârda-forda send vnder sin hod.

The Saxman Storo, Sytia’s husband; Grevetman over the high fens and woods. Nine times he was chosen as duke or heerman . The burghs Buda and Manna-garda-forda are under his care.



The High Fens (French: Hautes Fagnes; German: Hohes Venn; Dutch: Hoge Venen), which were declared a nature reserve in 1957, are an upland area, a plateau region in the province of Liège, in the east of Belgium and adjoining parts of Germany, between the Ardennes and the Eifel highlands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Fens
http://www.naturpark...ohesvenn_eifel/

Manna-gârda-forda = Münster

Mimigernaford
http://de.wikipedia....ter_(Westfalen)

Mimigernaford - Mimegardeford. Die ursprünglichen Namen der Stadt Münster
(The original name of the city of Münster)

http://epub.uni-regensburg.de/24584/



Bvda:

It's not just Bvda/Buda, it's the burgh of Buda or the Budaburgh.

It's the place after which the Bodensee is named.


Aus der Völkerwanderungszeit stammt nordöstlich des Dorfes auf halber Bergeshöhe bei der „Bodenburg“ ein alemannisches Reihengräberfeld

From the migration period northeast of the village at half height in the mountains near the "Bodenburg" originates an Alemannic cemetery

http://de.wikipedia....an-Ludwigshafen

http://en.wikipedia..../Lake_Constance

.

This is really interesting, 'Abramelin'! You have given me something to study.


#2517    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostApol, on 27 February 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Yes, 'Abramelin', that's quite a strange concurrence. One can ask if it is accidental, or not.
I don't believe in your wheelbarrow, though,,,

You don't believe what exactly about the wheelbarrow?


.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 February 2013 - 12:37 PM.


#2518    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostApol, on 27 February 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

This is really interesting, 'Abramelin'! You have given me something to study.

And let's not rule out the Hungarian Buda just yet:

View PostKnul, on 26 February 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

The genetic and linguistic relationship between the Fins and the Hungarians have been elaborated by the end of the 19th Century. The OLB does not refer to such relationship neither. The Carpathian magyars in Hungary were an isolated group as compared to the finnugrian settlements along the Volga-river up to Finland. So, the word magi may be derived from finnugrian, but is aplied in the northern areas only as you pointed at.

The funny thing is, that Ottema referred to Buda as to Budapest making the magyars originating from Frisian blood, which of course cannot being the case.


While Pest was mostly Hungarian in the 15th century, Buda had a German majority. Buda became part of Ottoman ruled central-Hungary from 1541 to 1686. It was known as Budin Eyalet during the Ottoman era. Ottoman Empire settled Serbian settlers in the nearby areas of the city. The original christian citizens (Germans and Hungarians) of the city fled.

In 1686, two years after the unsuccessful siege of Buda, a renewed European campaign was started to enter the erstwhile capital of medieval Hungary. This time, the Holy League's army was twice as large, containing over 74,000 men, including German, Dutch, Hungarian, English, Spanish, Czech, French, Croat, Burgundian, Danish and Swedish soldiers, along with other Europeans as volunteers, artilleryman, and officers, the Christian forces reconquered Buda. (See: Siege of Buda)

After the reconquest of Buda, Bourgeoisie from Southern Germany (Bavaria) moved to the almost deserted city. Germans — also clinging to their language — partly crowded out, partly assimilated the Hungarians and Serbians they have found here. With the rural population moving in the capital city, in the 19th century slowly Hungarians became the majority in Buda too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda


++++

EDIT:

The OLB mentions "Tha burga Bvda aend Manna-gârda-forda" or the burghs of Buda and Manna-gârda-forda.

And do the Dutch people still know a "burgh of Buda"? Yes they do:

http://nl.wikipedia....urcht_van_Boeda

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Buda_Castle

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 February 2013 - 12:50 PM.


#2519    Knul

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

View PostApol, on 27 February 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Yes, Ottema's placing of Bvda in Budapest is near to ridiculous - Fryasland's core area didn't stretch near to that far. And Overwijn dosn't make the solution any more credible by placing it only a little closer - in České Budějovice (Budweis) in the Czech Republic.

I have made a lot of pondering around where Bvda could have been situated. What I have come up with, is that Bvda may have been the original spelling of Bata, which certainly is a Roman transliteration - placing the burgh of Bvda somewhere in the Batavian area. There are several places up the river (or near to it) from their capital Batavodorum (which may have been either Nijmegen or Wijk bij Duurstede) starting with Büde- and the like; for instance the quarters of Büderich ('Bvda-Reich') in both Meerbusch, Wesel and Werl. Though, their capital or burgh might have been the site of Batavodorum.

I can hardly believe that, because the whole of the OLB describes the Celtic time before the Romans.  Besides OLB states, that the Saxman [Saks] Storo reigned over the haga fenna [Hoge Venen] and walda [Friese Wouden} and took care of Buda  [?] and Mannagardaforda [?]. Ottema identified Mannagardaforda as Munster, but I would rather identify it as Munksgaard in Danmark. In that case Buda (Beuten ?) should be in Danmark as well. Both Buda and Mannagardaforda were Frisian setlements beyond the territory of Haga Fenna [Hogeveen in Drente, not in Belgium] and Walda, governed by a Saxman. The Haga Fenna and Walda make me think of the territory south of Groningen.

Edited by Knul, 27 February 2013 - 03:18 PM.


#2520    Abramelin

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

Here's a new rant, in real OLB style:


About those Magyar/Magi:


We should not forget that the original text of the OLB gives this spelling: Mâgjara  In English that would be Magiara.

Their chief was called Magy.

The way the OLB describes these Magiara no way resembles the Hungarian variety.

The Magiara had temples/churches (kaerka) with statues inside them, a high priest (Magy), while the Hungarian Magyar had a shamanistic religion, no temples and no statues.

The Magiar are said to have arrived in Europe 2194-101= 2093 BCE, while the Magyar arrived millennia later.

The next quote (Sandbach's translation, adapted) is also great in creating extra confusion:

The priests are the only rulers; they call themselves Magiara, and their headman Magy. He is high priest and king in one. The rest of the people are of no account, and in subjection to them. This people have not even a name; but we call them Finna,

So they DO have a name, Magiar, but then it is said they DON'T have a name...but that depends on how you read the sentence.

The people are called Finna, but their cast of priests are called Magiar and the head of those priests Magy. This cast of priests carry weapons made from copper, the common people (the Finna) carry stone weapons.


Magi (pron.: /ˈmeɪdʒaɪ/; Latin plural of magus; Ancient Greek: μάγος magos; Old Persian:  maguš, Persian: مُغ‎ mogh; English singular magian, mage, magus, magusian, magusaean ; kurdish magi ) is a term, used since at least the 6th century BC, to denote followers of Mazdaism or Zoroaster. The earliest known usage of the word Magi is in the trilingual inscription written by Darius the Great, known as the Behistun Inscription.

Starting later, presumably during the Hellenistic period, the word Magi also denotes followers of what the Hellenistic chroniclers incorrectly associated Zoroaster with, which was – in the main – the ability to read the stars, and manipulate the fate that the stars foretold.[citation needed] However, Old Persian texts, pre-dating the Hellenistic period, refer to a Magus as a Mazdaic, and presumably Zoroastrian, priest.

-

Their influence was also widespread throughout Asia Minor. It is, therefore, quite likely that the sacerdotal caste of the Magi was distinct from the Median tribe of the same name."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi


Now why would these Finna have priests that called themselves Magiar and a head priest called Magy?
The real Magi were followers of Zoroaster, the founder of Zoroastrianism.
And I think it is another example of creative OLB wordfk: Zoroaster, Zoro Aster... Aster Sea, anyone?

And, as we know, the OLB Aster Sea is the Eastern Sea, the Baltic.


Zoroastrian
1743, from Zoroaster, from Latin Zoroastres, from Old Persian Zarathushtra, 6c. or 7c. B.C.E. Persian religious teacher. The name appears to be literally "whose camels are old," from *zarant "old" (cognate with Greek geron, genitive gerontos "old").

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

Zoroaster's name in his native language, Avestan, was probably Zaraϑuštra. His English name, "Zoroaster", and the derivatives from a later (5th-century BCE) Greek transcription, Zōroastrēs (Ζωροάστρης), as used in Xanthus's Lydiaca (Fragment 32) and in Plato's First Alcibiades (122a1). This form appears subsequently in the Latin Zōroastrēs and, in later Greek orthographies, as Zōroastris. The Greek form of the name appears to be based on a phonetic transliteration or semantic substitution of the Avestan zaraϑ- with the Greek zōros (literally "undiluted") and the Avestan -uštra with astron ("star").

In Avestan, Zaraϑuštra is generally accepted to derive from an Old Iranian *Zaratuštra-. While zarat- is strongly referenced to mean "golden" (from the old Eastern-Iranian zar- [-زر], meaning "gold") it does not itself appear in Avestan.[citation needed] The second half of the name (-uštra-) is universally accepted to mean "camel".[4][a] These factors combined open the door for reconstructing the name's meaning, though there have been other alternative etymologies proposed.


And read the rest here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster


The date of Zoroaster, i.e., the date of composition of the Old Avestan gathas, is unknown. Classical writers such as Plutarch proposed dates prior to 6000 BC. Dates proposed in scholarly literature diverge widely, between the 18th and the 6th centuries BC [10]

10.^ "Controversy over Zaraϑuštra's date has been an embarrassment of long standing to Zoroastrian studies. If anything approaching a consensus exists, it is that he lived no later than 1000 BC, give or take a century or so, though reputable scholars have proposed dates as widely apart as 1750 BCE and '258 years before Alexander.'" (Encyclopedia Iranica)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster


Zarathushtra, known as Zoroaster by the Greeks, lived thousands of years ago on the mountainous steppes of Ancient Iran. Some sources, such as Plato and Socrates, claim Zoroaster lived 6,500 years before the Trojan War. This would place the life of Zoroaster around 7,000 BC. Other datings, based on linguistics, however, place the live of Zarathushtra around the 17th-18th Century BCE, about 3700 years ago.

http://www.zarathush...rathushtra.html


Noruz, the new day in Persian, is the cyclical celebration of the Spring Equinox. Instituted by the Zoroastrians well over 3800 years ago, and it is the most cherished and celebrated of all Iranian festivals; - it has been observed by all peoples of the broad Iranian world for millennia. Noruz commemorates the periodic rebirth and rejuvenation of nature, and has been observed in one form or another by all the major cultures that came in touch with Iranian culture, known as 'Persianate Societies'.

http://www.cais-soas...uz_iranians.htm


but according to the historian Bede the English name "Easter" comes from a pagan celebration by the Germanic tribes of the vernal (spring) equinox.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox


;) :o :P



.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 February 2013 - 03:48 PM.





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