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Does Absolute Reality Exist?


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#1    Zabarov

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:25 PM

One of the most profound questions that always puzzles me about the universe is the query about whether or not an absolute reality really exists. For example, is grass really green? Sure by the act of observation our perception tells us that the grass is green, but how do we know if the grass really is green? A color-blind person or someone who looked at a bright light might find the grass to be a different color. Not just the grass, but the world as well.

There is also evidence in Quantum Mechanics where photons behave as billard balls and paradoxically, waves according to The Double-Slit Experiments. What makes Quantum Mechanics even more weird is the strange fact that the act of observing them causes them to behave differently. For example, if you leave the photons unobserved in The Double-Slit Experiment, they behave as waves and thus, form an interference pattern. However, when you observe which way the photons go, they start behaving as billard balls rather than waves!

So, what is the true reality of photons? Is it a particle or a wave? Or can it be that what we interpret as reality is nothing but in the eye of the beholder?


#2    Rlyeh

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostZabarov, on 15 November 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

One of the most profound questions that always puzzles me about the universe is the query about whether or not an absolute reality really exists. For example, is grass really green?
It reflects light that is in the frequency of which the average human eye detects as green. Both the grass and the light reflected is real.

Quote

So, what is the true reality of photons? Is it a particle or a wave?
Both.
Edit: Although it is still defined as an elementary particle.

Quote

Or can it be that what we interpret as reality is nothing but in the eye of the beholder?
Opinions don't quite effect reality in that sense.

Edited by Rlyeh, 15 November 2012 - 05:04 PM.


#3    Lilly

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

Does absolute reality exist?...absolutely.

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#4    StarMountainKid

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:05 PM

Zabarov said:

For example, if you leave the photons unobserved in The Double-Slit Experiment, they behave as waves and thus, form an interference pattern. However, when you observe which way the photons go, they start behaving as billard balls rather than waves!

Interesting thread. I think we have to define the concept of "observer". I think in physics, the word "observer" means measurement by some technical device, or interaction with a measuring instrument, and not just "looking" at something. I'm not implying that you mean anything different in your statement, it's just that I think people sometimes misunderstand the word "observer" in this context.

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#5    CuriousGreek

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:42 PM

This question reminds me of the question ''If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?''. It doesn't matter who's there to listen to this sound, the sound exists. For the existence of any wave (sound wave or anything else) there must be a transmitter, but it's not necessary that a receiver should exist. Now, to your question, the absolute is one, unique and it exists. There is a source and from that source we get everything we know, see, feel. For example it's no use to know how people see the grass (green or no color at all). The grass exists and it has a color. The visual experience of everyone of us differs, but there is always something to see, just as everyone's opinion about one fact  differs, but still we create an opinion, which is based upon our experiences, mood, way of thinking etc.

Edited by CuriousGreek, 15 November 2012 - 05:43 PM.

Αν ανάμεσα σ’ όλον τον κόσμο,
νιώθεις πως δεν υπάρχουνε λύσεις,
τότε μόνο δυο μάτια μπορούνε,
να σε κάνουν να θέλεις να ζήσεις.

#6    CuriousGreek

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

To finish with, my point is that, if i hadn't seen grass for once in my life, that doesn't mean that grass does not exist. I hope i made myself clear!!!

Edited by CuriousGreek, 15 November 2012 - 05:45 PM.

Αν ανάμεσα σ’ όλον τον κόσμο,
νιώθεις πως δεν υπάρχουνε λύσεις,
τότε μόνο δυο μάτια μπορούνε,
να σε κάνουν να θέλεις να ζήσεις.

#7    StarMountainKid

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

For myself, the reality we as human beings experience is a sort of self-created fantasy world that is a result of and derived from Reality. Our brain creates our version of reality for our own benefit.

I think, when we consider what Relativity tells us about how the universe behaves on the large scale, the quantum behavior of elementary particles and fields, the origin of the Big Bang, our human conception of Reality is very limited in scope. I think Absolute Reality is a kind of nether region even more fundamental than what science has as yet discovered about the raw mechanics of the universe.

In my opinion, Absolute Reality is far removed from any possible conception, and is inaccessible to us. It's totally different than what we could expect from our limited viewpoint, but it does exist, magnitudes far distant from any possible knowledge or indication or suggestion of it. Yet, it creates or manifests the reality we observe and the reality that science measures.

Just my opinion.

Edited by StarMountainKid, 15 November 2012 - 05:48 PM.

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#8    Ryu

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

Tell you what, if you really doubt reality then go stand in the middle of a moderately busy highway and see what happens.
Go break someones living room window or kick a bear in the butt..then ask your questions about reality.


#9    freetoroam

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:03 PM

View PostCuriousGreek, on 15 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

This question reminds me of the question ''If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?''.
I always found this a strange one. It just shows how highly man thinks of himself. There are other living things in the forest and if a tree falls, its certain that it will make an animal jump, maybe squash a few insects, set a few birds flying. So man does not have to be everywhere for life to carry on. The fact is life other than humans do share this planet and cows may see grass as orange, its still grass.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#10    CuriousGreek

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 15 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

I always found this a strange one. It just shows how highly man thinks of himself. There are other living things in the forest and if a tree falls, its certain that it will make an animal jump, maybe squash a few insects, set a few birds flying. So man does not have to be everywhere for life to carry on. The fact is life other than humans do share this planet and cows may see grass as orange, its still grass.
Absolutely agree on that and i apologize for not mentioning it in the first place. Thank you.

Αν ανάμεσα σ’ όλον τον κόσμο,
νιώθεις πως δεν υπάρχουνε λύσεις,
τότε μόνο δυο μάτια μπορούνε,
να σε κάνουν να θέλεις να ζήσεις.

#11    Professor T

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:41 PM

View PostZabarov, on 15 November 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

One of the most profound questions that always puzzles me about the universe is the query about whether or not an absolute reality really exists. For example, is grass really green? Sure by the act of observation our perception tells us that the grass is green, but how do we know if the grass really is green? A color-blind person or someone who looked at a bright light might find the grass to be a different color. Not just the grass, but the world as well.

There is also evidence in Quantum Mechanics where photons behave as billard balls and paradoxically, waves according to The Double-Slit Experiments. What makes Quantum Mechanics even more weird is the strange fact that the act of observing them causes them to behave differently. For example, if you leave the photons unobserved in The Double-Slit Experiment, they behave as waves and thus, form an interference pattern. However, when you observe which way the photons go, they start behaving as billard balls rather than waves!

So, what is the true reality of photons? Is it a particle or a wave? Or can it be that what we interpret as reality is nothing but in the eye of the beholder?
lol, There's as many answers to this as there are people who have opinions around here..
I think that the fact that particals can act consciously when they are observed tells us a lot about the nature of reality.. and it all comes down to consciousness..  Therefore, imo, absolute reality is consciousness.


#12    JGirl

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

View PostCuriousGreek, on 15 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

This question reminds me of the question ''If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?''.
i prefer this one:
if a mime was shot in the forest and there was no one around to hear it, would he make a sound?


#13    StarMountainKid

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

Professor T said:

I think that the fact that particals can act consciously when they are observed tells us a lot about the nature of reality.. and it all comes down to consciousness..  Therefore, imo, absolute reality is consciousness.

How do elementary particles have consciousness? I would think when elementary particles interact with each other, the interaction is a cause and effect relationship that occurs automatically, determined by the probabilistic behavioral laws the particles adhere to.

The only way our consciousness relates to elementary particle's behavior is if and when we decide to turn on some measuring device to discover what the particle has done. I think this is one step away from our consciousness interacting with the particle directly. I see no direct relationship between our consciousness and the behavior of matter on the quantum scale.

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#14    freetoroam

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:27 PM

View PostJGirl, on 15 November 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

i prefer this one:
if a mime was shot in the forest and there was no one around to hear it, would he make a sound?
Do you mean a mute? unless it was suicide, the person who shot them would hear it.....although may not admit it if caught.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#15    Alienated Being

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:43 PM

View PostLilly, on 15 November 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Does absolute reality exist?...absolutely.
Badum-tiss!





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