The biggest problem with UFOlogy

[ambelamba]

The biggest problem is UFOlogy is that people try to make money out of it.

And we all know how it goes. Rather than being somewhat agnostic about UFOs and aliens, people tend to go whole nine yards and come up with some really wild (kindly speaking) stuff. In my observation, vast majority of UFOlogists are in for money, including Charles Hall and Steven Greer.

Well, if we are brutally honest about UFOlogy, the we won't have that many books on this subject. Probably the saner side of belief is that something's happening and something's out there. Beside that we have no idea what's really going on.

Same thing can be said on paleo-contact hypothesis. I gotta be honest, I consider that it is worth exploring. Even Carl Sagan didn't rule out the possibility. The problem is that we really don't have solid evidence of it. And I am NOT talking about pyramid of Giza or Stonehenge.

Like many egyptologists, I feel furious when people underestimate the human capability. You will be surprised what WE can do when the right conditions are applied. Building a pyramid? Yep, we can do it. Just whip the crap out lazy bums and feed and pay well the motivated workers. It can be done. Same with Stonehenge.

The most likely explanation of paleo-contact thing is that it might have happened much older than we speculate. Probably it happened around the emergence of homo sapiens, which is about 100,000 years ago. If the contact was made at that time, it can be reasonable to assume that any kind of evidence was pretty much destroyed without trace.

[MrBene]

Yeah, many ufologists fabric their own pieces of evidence and many people fake videos, photos and more in order to "make believe" non-believers. The thing is, most of us, we do believe that there is life out there, but certainly not in the way media wants to show us.

[EnderOTD]

It is so damn true that many a money can be made. Just gather a few loosley related pictures, artifacts, stories and write a book. The thing is you dont even have to get a highschool diploma, go to college, or get a degree in any respectable field, you can still be a world renowned Ufologist. Hell you can be ousted as a fraud numerous times and still be taken seriously. Just have to have the gift of gab and a gullible market base to exploit.

[skookum]

Totally agree with you.

However on the other side I suppose it costs money to investigate. Travelling to meet witnesses, analyzing pictures and video all costs I suppose. Plus they like all their own equipment, they shouldn't fabricate anything but I suspect some do.

[Kaa-Tzik]

People are of course free to believe any nonsense they like, even make money out of propogating their nonsense, after all, nobody forces us to buy this rubbish, and caveat emptor applies. Though the peddlers of self delusional fantasies, pseudo science and outright fraud should be mercilessly exposed for the charlatans they are. Now I don't say we cannot dream, for we all like mysteries, and I do not say we cannot share our dreams, for not every book that is printed in the general "mysteries/UFO" category is some cynical fraud designed to seperate people from their money. I have books on these subjects, and many are entertaining and harmless. The problem is with the likes of the "professional" ufologists etc, people who know they are lying and do so as it is their way of earning a living. The modern snake oil sellers that nowadays mostly sell their fake goods on numerous documentaries, many of which are adverts for a book. Knowingly selling a false idea for $ is no less criminal that selling fake watches, imo. The problem with doing anything about these charlatans in law is that it would have to be proved that they are in fact lying. They know it, we know it, but the law needs evidence, and this inability to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a con trick is being perpetrated allows the criminals to continue defrauding the gullible. Now I hope some people do not get the wrong end of the stick here and think I call anybody who believes in UFOs and other mysteries a criminal, or gullible, far from it, for I myself actually wish some of these things to be true as they are so fascinating. This is aimed at the target the OP has pointed out, the professional charlatans, the cynics who themselves do not believe in what they preach, the dealers in psuedo science and outright lies wanting to steal our money.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[Star Man]

The problem is that most people think they could solve the mystery with what do they learn from the school, so they study ufology “scientifically” and with those “sense”. they do not consider the UFO may not obey our physical law. The exposures of ufo are depend on alien not from us. You just check on those major ufo research organization, how much do they know about ufo objects, especially those ufo light balls…..?

[Star Man]

Most problems of UFOlogy is commentator pretend to be an expert, people who have seen few times ufo or write few article about it, that does not mean they become an ufo expert. in fact they do not know what are the UFO.

[zoser]

The biggest problem is UFOlogy is that people try to make money out of it.

No it's not the biggest problem at all.

If you want to appreciate where it all went wrong then you have to look at the continual pattern or denial, cover up. deception and information monopoly.

That's where the problem still lies.

Then having expressed frustration at all of this over the last 70 years, people have tried to exploit this thirst for disclosure, by generating a hoaxing industry. At first it was not too big a problem. Now with the aid of modern technology things have gotten well and truly out of hand.

The net result is that it plays into the hands of the authorities who own the information more and more.

The investigators are entitled to make money if it keeps the information flowing and so are the witnesses for the same reason. But I would strongly suggest that this is nothing in comparison to the culture of secrecy.

Edited October 7, 2013 by zoser

[Spacenut56]

No it's not the biggest problem at all.

If you want to appreciate where it all went wrong then you have to look at the continual pattern or denial, cover up. deception and information monopoly.

That's where the problem still lies.

Then having expressed frustration at all of this over the last 70 years, people have tried to exploit this thirst for disclosure, by generating a hoaxing industry. At first it was not too big a problem. Now with the aid of modern technology things have gotten well and truly out of hand.

The net result is that it plays into the hands of the authorities who own the information more and more.

The investigators are entitled to make money if it keeps the information flowing and so are the witnesses for the same reason. But I would strongly suggest that this is nothing in comparison to the culture of secrecy.

I agree 1000%. Two entities that come to mind when I think of secrecy and coverup are yes, the U.S. Government, and yes, NASA. Both in my opinion are in deep denial about what is really going on in the skies of the world. At least one of these entities tries to cast doubt and refuses to comment on anything to do with ufo's even though its astronauts over the courses of decades have seen things that NASA continues to deny or won't comment on. The question is why not????

[seeder]

I agree 1000%. Two entities that come to mind when I think of secrecy and coverup are yes, the U.S. Government, and yes, NASA. Both in my opinion are in deep denial about what is really going on in the skies of the world. At least one of these entities tries to cast doubt and refuses to comment on anything to do with ufo's even though its astronauts over the courses of decades have seen things that NASA continues to deny or won't comment on. The question is why not????

as I seem to keep on saying, NASA, are not the only ones to have gone in space, The Russians and Chinese and Japanese have all surveyed the Moon for example, they have all sent craft there for all kinds of mapping. The Bonus with the Japanese and the Chinese of course is that they have done this recently, therefore with much better cameras and gear than the early NASA missions.

So if NASA are covering stuff up, why haven't the Chinese Russians and Japanese revealed that NASA and the US govts are lying? They all 'know' whats on the moon in this instance. And China and Russia especially would love to shame the US govt by publicly proving they lied. But its never happened. There are no secrets.

And again I repeat, just about every developed nation has space agencies, and many have made rocket launches into space, incl the UK, and observe space just as much as nasa does. But are they all lying too?

[Spacenut56]

Some possibly are IMO. I know France has been quite open about their coverage of ufo's, and I thought Russia had opened up considerably about them as well, unless things have changed and I am wrong.

[zoser]

as I seem to keep on saying, NASA, are not the only ones to have gone in space, The Russians and Chinese and Japanese have all surveyed the Moon for example, they have all sent craft there for all kinds of mapping. The Bonus with the Japanese and the Chinese of course is that they have done this recently, therefore with much better cameras and gear than the early NASA missions.

So if NASA are covering stuff up, why haven't the Chinese Russians and Japanese revealed that NASA and the US govts are lying? They all 'know' whats on the moon in this instance. And China and Russia especially would love to shame the US govt by publicly proving they lied. But its never happened. There are no secrets.

And again I repeat, just about every developed nation has space agencies, and many have made rocket launches into space, incl the UK, and observe space just as much as nasa does. But are they all lying too?

The Russian Cosmonauts made many reports. There is no need for me to post them here; just do a little research. As for the Chinese, well who knows what they have or haven't seen; I would be willing to bet that their desperation to achieve technological and military parity with the US has meant that they just can't be bothered with unexplained orbs in space. They have much bigger fish to fry. Indifference.

That's it.

Edited October 7, 2013 by zoser

[Rlyeh]

The problem is that most people think they could solve the mystery with what do they learn from the school, so they study ufology “scientifically” and with those “sense”. they do not consider the UFO may not obey our physical law. The exposures of ufo are depend on alien not from us. You just check on those major ufo research organization, how much do they know about ufo objects, especially those ufo light balls…..?

UFO doesn't mean alien. Sorry.

Unless you're saying you've already some how identified them as alien, then I guess I'd be asking how you've done that?

Edited October 7, 2013 by Rlyeh

[Star Man]

ven I tell you how I've done that, you still can not get it. you must be a contacter or encounter whom choosed by alien(?)

many ufologists after got my information they try to find it. I think they only can see ufos, not alien.

The exposures of alien is not depend with much better cameras and geare......

Edited October 7, 2013 by Star Man

[Rlyeh]

even I tell you how I've done that, you still can not get it. you must be a contacter or encounter whom choosed by alien(?)

many ufologists after got my information they try to find it. I think they only can see ufos, not alien.

What methods have you used to determine UFOs are alien?

Edit: I was talking about verifiable evidence, not anecdotes.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Rlyeh

[Star Man]

read all articles on my blog, what do you get is by your heart not by your brain.

[Rlyeh]

read all articles on my blog, what do you get is by your heart not by your brain.

You should consider using your brain then.

Edit: According to your blog you charge people to see your alien photos because you paid for the photos?

That doesn't sound like research to me.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Rlyeh

[Star Man]

that really shows how much the brain did you used? you not read it properly.

I pay for camera, battery, cost.......

I am a searcher you are the researcher.

[Rlyeh]

that really shows how much the brain did you used? you not read it properly.

I pay for camera, battery, cost.......

I am a searcher you are the researcher.

How can I read something that isn't there?

I imagine you pay for your internet access, do you charge people for looking at your site?

Still you seem to have assumed UFOs are aliens and trying to cash in on it at the same time.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Rlyeh

[seeder]

The biggest problem is UFOlogy is that people try to make money out of it.

I think another HUGE problem with ufology, is that the internet allows for more exposure - than people would have had, pre-internet days, to all the hogwash stories and outright BS hoaxes.

It used to be said and I dont know if its still true, that the 2 most common internet searches, were for porn, and UFO's. So disregarding porn, we can say that perhaps there are many people curious to know about the ET/UFO phenomena. Then you see we also have the issue where the internet and its freedoms, allow for anyone to put up a website, and in this case, there must be hundreds of thousands of ufo sites.

Now this will lead some, like zoser and other believers, to assume because there are so many sites, that the phenomena must be true and the non believers must be mad for not knowing this. You can see this play out by members who incessantly post ufo/et vids as if they have stumbled upon world shaking truths and simply have to inform others about them.

But the sad facts are, that while there may be thousands of websites, closer inspection shows plagiarism, they all have similar if not identical accounts of all the classic stories, and still promote them irrespective of whether the stories have been thoroughly debunked.

And then of course we have youtube. Where once upon a time they were begging for content, all of a sudden, people realise they can promote themselves and their vids for free, again without restriction, and clever, and some not so clever, hoaxes are born to further muddy the waters. So there is an ever increasing amount of bogus stories and outright hoaxes being uploaded by the hour, 24/7, 365 days a week.

Unfortunately too, the people who seek them out, or stumble across them and continue to follow similar links, may form the impression we are truly being visited each and every day by alien saucers. Which simply is not the case.

The waters of ufology are so muddied I dont see any way out of it at all, but it all did seem to start somewhere, and in my opinion, what gave it full impetus was the early space exploration and moon landings, it made people think of space and 'whats out there'

All the 'classic stories in ufology seemed to stem from a similar time....for example, note the dates, and bear in mind the 'space race' began to appear in the media with the Sputnik satellite launch on 4 October 1957. How many classic abductions were before then? There are a few stories sure, but the boom time was....

1961 Betty and Barney Hill Abduction

1967 The Betty Andreasson Abduction

1967 Abduction of Herbert Schirmer

1969 The Buff Ledge Camp Abduction

1973 Pascagoula, Mississippi Abduction (Parker, Hickson)

1975 The Abduction of Sergeant Charles L. Moody

1975 The Travis Walton Abduction

1976 The Stanford, Kentucky Abductions

1976 The Allagash Abductions

1976 The Dechmont Forest Abduction

And of course lots have been debunked since then too. And more importantly, some copycat stories have floated around since then.

So why the boom in the sixties and 70's? Is it coincidence 'space and moon landings and astronauts' were all over the news at the time...and in kids comics, cartoons and tv shows like the Outer Limits and Twilight Zone and their spin offs, not to mention Star Trek? Plus the books appearing at a similar time - like Von Danikens Chariots of the Gods. 1968

Heck even lava lamps were made to look like rockets way back then, the world was literally 'turned on' to space and the moon...and...the possibility of aliens..

And imagination did the rest. Thats half of the problem solved right there, peoples imaginations

Question. Would the world have been gripped with aliens and ufo's if we never went into space in the first place?

Edited October 8, 2013 by seeder

[scowl]

So why the boom in the sixties and 70's? Is it coincidence 'space and moon landings and astronauts' were all over the news at the time...and in kids comics, cartoons and tv shows like the Outer Limits and Twilight Zone and their spin offs, not to mention Star Trek? Plus the books appearing at a similar time - like Von Danikens Chariots of the Gods. 1968

The oddest thing about Chariots of the Gods is that it regularly referred to alien spacecraft as being very much like our rockets and jet airplanes. It showed large slabs that had to have been "launching pads". It shows a painting of something holding a "control stick". All the ancient "spacecraft" are either aerodynamic rockets or airplanes with flames shooting out of their engines. Do I even have to mention the "ancient airport" where spacecraft flew across the galaxy then landed on wheels? I think there is only one reference to something that looks like a drawing of a flying saucer.

The book ignores flying saucers because at the time they were associated with bad movies, cheap magazines, and blurry photos. Instead Von Daniken cleverly attached his ridiculous theories to the American and Soviet space technology that everyone was familiar making them seem far more legitimate. That's why Chariots of the Gods became a world-wide best seller instead of just another UFO book.

[meteorlima]

Are debunkers who write books about ufo's out to make a fast buck too?

[Sweetpumper]

Nah, no way.

[seeder]

Are debunkers who write books about ufo's out to make a fast buck too?

Id expect the ufo debunks threaten to bust too many bubbles for them to have a wildfire popularity. Just look how loudly the believers protest here, they dont really want to hear the debunkers/skeptics side do they? We get accused of trouncing peoples wide eyed acceptance. But even if they did make some dough, they are not making grand claims to start with are they? They just sensibly break down the stories.

[Star Man]

How can I read something that isn't there?

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=112135

http://ufo-spacelife.blogspot.com/