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where did the "sumerians" come from?


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#211    cormac mac airt

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:03 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 01 August 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Homo Sapians left Africa 200,000 years ago and your saying the skin mellons only turned 4000 to 10,000 bc?

That's what genetics studies have determined:

Quote

Researchers have disagreed for decades about an issue that is only skin-deep: How quickly did the first modern humans who swept into Europe acquire pale skin? Now a new report on the evolution of a gene for skin color suggests that Europeans lightened up quite recently, perhaps only 6000 to 12,000 years ago. This contradicts a long-standing hypothesis that modern humans in Europe grew paler about 40,000 years ago, as soon as they migrated into northern latitudes.

and

Quote

Either way, the implication is that our European ancestors were brown-skinned for tens of thousands of years—a suggestion made 30 years ago by Stanford University geneticist L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza. He argued that the early immigrants to Europe, who were hunter-gatherers, herders, and fishers, survived on ready-made sources of vitamin D in their diet. But when farming spread in the past 6000 years, he argued, Europeans had fewer sources of vitamin D in their food and needed to absorb more sunlight to produce the vitamin in their skin.

http://galsatia.file...nche_paleur.pdf

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#212    kmt_sesh

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

Skin mellons? Do you mean melatonin, docyabut2?

Homo sapiens may have left Africa around 200,000 years ago but they did not enter Europe until around 45,000 years ago.

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#213    Harte

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:48 PM

There's more than one way to skin a mellon.

Or, so I hear.

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#214    questionmark

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:50 PM

View PostHarte, on 01 August 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

There's more than one way to skin a mellon.

Or, so I hear.

Harte

could be, in any case: you need a sharp implement.

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#215    The_Spartan

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:59 PM

Well...

God decided to make/bake a human.

He made a human and put him the oven and went for a long walk.
When he came back, the human was overbaked and black in  colour.
Thus came the 1st human -  From Africa.

God decided that since the 1st human was overbaked, he should pay more attention. he stayed next to the oven and was very impatient.
He took out the human earlier than he was supposed to.
The human was pale in color.
Thus came the white human.
God decided that this time he would take all care and do it right
He baked another human. he waited next to the oven and took out the human in the right time.
Thus came the perfectly baked human - The Indians.


lol. an old story.

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#216    PersonFromPorlock

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:26 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 27 August 2010 - 02:42 PM, said:

When in doubt, look it up

Hey! You can lose your Guy Card for that. It's as bad as stopping and asking for directions!


#217    docyabut2

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:41 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 01 August 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

That's what genetics studies have determined:



and



http://galsatia.file...nche_paleur.pdf

cormac


Not be silly or anything:) but I thought it was the cave dwellings of living in the cold that made homo sapians turn lighter, lack of the ultra violet rays


#218    kmt_sesh

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:45 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 02 August 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Not be silly or anything:) but I thought it was the cave dwellings of living in the cold that made homo sapians turn lighter, lack of the ultra violet rays

I hope cormac will also answer but light skin is better at absorbing the sun's heat, and hence building more Vitamin D in the body. In other words, the development of light skin was an eventual environmental adaptation to the brutal Ice Age climate of Paleolithic time.

It's a common misconception that Paleolithic people in Europe lived in caves, and so our common term "cave man" is actually inaccurate. While numerous sites of inhabitation have been found and excavated, they are usually not inside caves.

Edited by kmt_sesh, 02 August 2013 - 02:46 AM.
Clarification

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#219    cormac mac airt

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:12 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 02 August 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Not be silly or anything:) but I thought it was the cave dwellings of living in the cold that made homo sapians turn lighter, lack of the ultra violet rays

Cave dwellings had little to nothing to do with it. It was the result of migrating northward that caused a genetic trigger which allowed the production of Vitamin D in people inhabiting more northern areas where the sunlight was neither as direct nor as intense. And as kmt_sesh has mentioned "cave men" is a bit of a misnomer since most never lived in caves, particularly full time/year round. Which means you're basing your ideas off a rather cartoonish (although somewhat understandable) idea from well over 100 years ago.

Edit to add: All of this means that early modern humans (Hss) that inhabited Europe were brown skinned for around 30,000 years before the genetic trigger that initiated the development of pale skin.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 02 August 2013 - 03:16 AM.

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#220    docyabut2

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 09:45 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 02 August 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

Cave dwellings had little to nothing to do with it. It was the result of migrating northward that caused a genetic trigger which allowed the production of Vitamin D in people inhabiting more northern areas where the sunlight was neither as direct nor as intense. And as kmt_sesh has mentioned "cave men" is a bit of a misnomer since most never lived in caves, particularly full time/year round. Which means you're basing your ideas off a rather cartoonish (although somewhat understandable) idea from well over 100 years ago.

Edit to add: All of this means that early modern humans (Hss) that inhabited Europe were brown skinned for around 30,000 years before the genetic trigger that initiated the development of pale skin.

cormac


If homo sapians migrating northward  caused a genetic trigger and  only turned lighter 6000 to 12,000 years ago, how to you explained the American indian that  migrated northward through the bering straits 14,000 years ago, of the last ice age, that are brown to red skinned? Some how I  think some homosapians turned lighter a lot longer then 30,000 years ago.  I would say because some stayed in the European caves of  the colder climates, instead of migrating like the co magon man.


#221    laver

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:50 PM

This topic seems to have drifted far from the origins of the Sumerians and the rise of the world's first major civilisation. It would seem that we do not know where they came from, if anywhere. They may have developed from hunter gatherer groups in the place they later settled with a lifestyle and location that lent itself to advancement. They believed that it was the influence of their Gods and Goddesses that made them the way were, a highly intelligent and inventive race of people, who were later overun by groups who may have used some of their ideas but may not have follow all their religious and cultural beliefs.


#222    Harte

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:05 PM

View Postlaver, on 02 August 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

This topic seems to have drifted far from the origins of the Sumerians and the rise of the world's first major civilisation. It would seem that we do not know where they came from, if anywhere. They may have developed from hunter gatherer groups in the place they later settled with a lifestyle and location that lent itself to advancement.
Pretty much everyone developed from hunter-gatherers.

However, the Sumerian culture displaced the Ubadian culture in Southern Mesopotamia, so they came from somewhere else.

Maybe Northern Mesopotamia, I suppose.

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#223    cormac mac airt

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:57 PM

Quote

If homo sapians migrating northward caused a genetic trigger and only turned lighter 6000 to 12,000 years ago, how to you explained the American indian that migrated northward through the bering straits 14,000 years ago, of the last ice age, that are brown to red skinned? Some how I think some homosapians turned lighter a lot longer then 30,000 years ago.

If it took more than 30,000 years for the change to lighter skin to occur in early Europeans and Native Americans have only been in the Americas some c.14,000 years, that should tell you something. Namely that there hasn't been sufficient time for said change to take affect in them as well. Not that that's likely since in todays world one can move anywhere they please and therefore pretty much negates the necessity for one skin-tone over another.

.........

Quote

Maybe Northern Mesopotamia, I suppose.

Based on cultural similarities, particularly with pottery styles, there is some thought that the Sumerians originated from the Samarran Culture of Northern Mesopotamia from around Tell es-Sawwan.

cormac

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#224    HollyDolly

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:14 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 August 2010 - 02:33 AM, said:

Hungarians would love to tell you that the Sumerians came from their country, but that's what the Rumanians say too, lol.

Let's say they would agree on the Balkans, based on script found there that resembles the precursor of the Sumerian cuneiform script.

And I read somewhere that the Sumerians themselves say they came from the north, but I don't know what's true about that.

I never heard that before.Where did you learn this. I myself have no idea where  the Sumerians came from.Could they possibly come from somewhere east  maybe?


#225    kmt_sesh

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:50 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 02 August 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

If homo sapians migrating northward  caused a genetic trigger and  only turned lighter 6000 to 12,000 years ago, how to you explained the American indian that  migrated northward through the bering straits 14,000 years ago, of the last ice age, that are brown to red skinned? Some how I  think some homosapians turned lighter a lot longer then 30,000 years ago.  I would say because some stayed in the European caves of  the colder climates, instead of migrating like the co magon man.

The issue with Native Americans is an interesting question and probably not something I am fully equipped to answer. However, to hazard a guess (help me out here, cormac) I'd have to say it's due more to their own genetic mixture. Native Americans journeying across the Bering Straight thousands of years ago were a different race from Europeans, having come from ancient Asian populations. And to this day most Asians have brownish-colored skin. The first Europeans, on the other hand, came from a more "Middle Eastern" ethnicity, and to this day many Middle Easterners can be rather light skinned.

But the idea of living in caves is no longer accepted, docy. Extensive acrhcaeological excavations in Europe have found sites of Paleolithic inhabitations largely in river valleys and other sheltered locations (including alongside large rock overhangs), but to this day there is no demonstrable evidence that Paleolithic peoples of Europe lived in caves.

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