48 replies to this topic

[Render]

Quote

(CNN) -- The European Union won the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday as it grapples with the worst crisis since its founding -- devastating debt and the threat of disintegration.
The prestigious award was a salute to the struggling 27-nation union for its work in promoting democracy and reconciliation since World War II.
It was a cheer for an entity tackling the continent's economic misery -- particularly in debt-ridden Greece, Spain, and Portugal -- as some member countries might be faced with dropping the euro, the EU currency.
The timing wasn't a coincidence.
"This is, in a way, a message to Europe that we should do everything we can and move forward," said Thorbjen Jagland, the chairman of the Norwegian Nobel Committee and a high European Council official.
"We want to remind all Europeans about what we have achieved on this continent and that we should not let it start disintegrating again and getting nationalism and extremism (to) grow on this continent, because we know what that leads to," Jagland said.
"It's also a clear message to other parts of the world where you have a number of conflicts; this is a good way of solving conflicts, namely getting countries (to) make trade with each other. ..."

http://edition.cnn.c...rize/index.html

[CommunitarianKevin]

[questionmark]

HuttonEtAl, on 12 October 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Lets see 30 years war, 1680
Seven years war 1756
Napoleonic wars 1808
Hereditary enemity wars 1870
First WW 1914
Sewcond WW 1939

And that only what happened between France and Germany, we have not yet included the wars between Germany and Austria, France and Austria, France and Italy, Austria and Italy, Germany and Denmark, Germany and Sweden and Spain and Holland, Britain against all and whathaveyou.

It is pretty evident that the EU is a major peace forming organization in Europe.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

What, all of it? En masse?  I think the Nobel Peace Prize people have rather lost the plot since they gave it to BO purely for not being Bush.

[CommunitarianKevin]

questionmark, on 12 October 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Lets see 30 years war, 1680
Seven years war 1756
Napoleonic wars 1808
Hereditary enemity wars 1870
First WW 1914
Sewcond WW 1939

And that only what happened between France and Germany, we have not yet included the wars between Germany and Austria, France and Austria, France and Italy, Austria and Italy, Germany and Denmark, Germany and Sweden and Spain and Holland, Britain against all and whathaveyou.

It is pretty evident that the EU is a major peace forming organization in Europe.

In Europe...

[stevewinn]

747400, on 12 October 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

What, all of it? En masse?  I think the Nobel Peace Prize people have rather lost the plot since they gave it to BO purely for not being Bush.

i agree,

the reasons for why they give the EU the award makes me laugh. democracy and peace. for start democracy and EU dont even belong in the same sentence. as for peace in europe. since the end of WW2 the lasting peace is thanks to keeping Germany under the thumb. thanks to having allied forces stationed in Germany. and praise has to go the United States of America for the lasting peace and the formation of NATO.

But in true EU style they'll try and claim anything. in truth the EU as achieved nothing. all the EU is, is a club of mickey mouse countries led by Germany and their terrified 'please dont invade' neighbour France. the rest of us are just tagging on behind, going through the motions.

democracy EU style wrong outcome - vote again until desired result. like witnessed in the referendum votes, the Dutch said No the French said NO the Irish said NO, and what happened they carried on regardless. if people who truly believe in democracy cannot whats happening then my god, no wonder countries sleep walk into disasters.

just take the EU referendum in Ireland. they held the democratic vote the result was NO. the EU then threw its propaganda machine into overdrive, spending three times more money than any other election, they threatened the Irish voters, Vote NO again and Ireland's economy will collapse Vote NO again and people will lose jobs. the terrified Irish fearing the worse then went back to the polls and Voted YES. a result which the EU accepted without question. funny how they didnt accept the First vote  which was a NO result.

Then move onto Greece and Italy their leaders removed from office and two pro EU apparatchiks now head these countries governments forcing through the EU's will. people should remember how the Greek primeminister then George Papandreou was forced from office with pressure from German and French leaders. next Italy, we now have mario monti as Italian primeminister a former EU commissioner, and it goes on and on, both Greek and Italian governments brought to power to resolve a 'debt crisis' in truth both previous governments were not towing the EU line so were removed by the forces within.

[questionmark]

stevewinn, on 12 October 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

i agree,

the reasons for why they give the EU the award makes me laugh. democracy and peace. for start democracy and EU dont even belong in the same sentence. as for peace in europe. since the end of WW2 the lasting peace is thanks to keeping Germany under the thumb. thanks to having allied forces stationed in Germany. and praise has to go the United States of America for the lasting peace and the formation of NATO.

But in true EU style they'll try and claim anything. in truth the EU as achieved nothing. all the EU is, is a club of mickey mouse countries led by Germany and their terrified 'please dont invade' neighbour France. the rest of us are just tagging on behind, going through the motions.

democracy EU style wrong outcome - vote again until desired result. like witnessed in the referendum votes, the Dutch said No the French said NO the Irish said NO, and what happened they carried on regardless. if people who truly believe in democracy cannot whats happening then my god, no wonder countries sleep walk into disasters.

just take the EU referendum in Ireland. they held the democratic vote the result was NO. the EU then threw its propaganda machine into overdrive, spending three times more money than any other election, they threatened the Irish voters, Vote NO again and Ireland's economy will collapse Vote NO again and people will lose jobs. the terrified Irish fearing the worse then went back to the polls and Voted YES. a result which the EU accepted without question. funny how they didnt accept the First vote  which was a NO result.

Then move onto Greece and Italy their leaders removed from office and two pro EU apparatchiks now head these countries governments forcing through the EU's will. people should remember how the Greek primeminister then George Papandreou was forced from office with pressure from German and French leaders. next Italy, we now have mario monti as Italian primeminister a former EU commissioner, and it goes on and on, both Greek and Italian governments brought to power to resolve a 'debt crisis' in truth both previous governments were not towing the EU line so were removed by the forces within.

Let me guess: The Napoleonic wars was Germany, The French Italian war was Germany, the British-Dutch war was Germany...

I have the suspicion that some long back to the good old times of glory, blood, guts and slaughter.

[CommunitarianKevin]

questionmark, on 12 October 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Let me guess: The Napoleonic wars was Germany, The French Italian war was Germany, the British-Dutch war was Germany...

I have the suspicion that some long back to the good old times of glory, blood, guts and slaughter.

I only agree with you if we are only talking about what they did for EUROPE. But if we are only looking at a small, one-sided view, we may as well give the Israelies a Nobel Peace Price for their bringing together of the Jewish people and their planting of trees in their desert and their massive building projects in Israel...

[Bavarian Raven]

Quote

WW2 the lasting peace is thanks to keeping Germany under the thumb.

yes, because france, britain, spain, etc, etc, never started wars

[questionmark]

HuttonEtAl, on 12 October 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

I only agree with you if we are only talking about what they did for EUROPE. But if we are only looking at a small, one-sided view, we may as well give the Israelies a Nobel Peace Price for their bringing together of the Jewish people and their planting of trees in their desert and their massive building projects in Israel...

...displacing the original inhabitants. Hardly peace material.

[CommunitarianKevin]

questionmark, on 12 October 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

...displacing the original inhabitants. Hardly peace material.

That's kind of what I am getting at...Europe takes part in many things that are not peaceful. The West as a whole takes advantage of other countries and strips them of their resources.

[questionmark]

HuttonEtAl, on 12 October 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

That's kind of what I am getting at...Europe takes part in many things that are not peaceful. The West as a whole takes advantage of other countries and strips them of their resources.

The West as a whole buys resources from other countries. Nobody forces them to sell any. And if they could do anything themselves with the resources  Take a look at how many cars Africa has been able to build by themselves, oh yes, in the 50s Egypt build the Ramses:



sadly, sadly it was an ill copy of the German NSU Prinz.

[stevewinn]

in my post i referred to the lasting peace in europe since the last world war which was the second world war. not any other war,

raven and Q, the pair of you have missed the point completely.

the reason for lasting peace in Europe was not the creation of the European Union. my previous post contains the powers responsible for peace in europe

Edited by stevewinn, 12 October 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[CommunitarianKevin]

questionmark, on 12 October 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

The West as a whole buys resources from other countries. Nobody forces them to sell any. And if they could do anything themselves with the resources  Take a look at how many cars Africa has been able to build by themselves, oh yes, in the 50s Egypt build the Ramses:



sadly, sadly it was an ill copy of the German NSU Prinz.

Actually you are wrong. They are forced to because they are stuck in the cycle that Colonialism and Imperialism put them into. Jamaca is a great example. The EU, the US, and the World Bank screw them. We are making them poorer by the year. We destroyed their dairy industy and now force them to buy powdered milk, which is actually more expensive than the milk they were producing at home. We (the West,) owns these countries and keep them down with stupid laws and regulations.

And then there is that whole Middle East thing...

Edited by HuttonEtAl, 12 October 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[questionmark]

HuttonEtAl, on 12 October 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Actually you are wrong. They are forced to because they are stuck in the cycle that Colonialism and Imperialism put them into. Jamaca is a great example. The EU, the US, and the World Bank screw them. We are making them poorer by the year. We destroyed their dairy industy and now force them to buy powdered milk, which is actually more expensive than the milk they were producing at home. We (the West,) owns these countries and keep them down.

It is always the evil world bank and the US, the European imperialists and what have you. Some of those nations are independent for almost a century now and the only thing that grew there is rampant graft, theft and corruption. In fact, even countries that were a bright example in colonial and post-colonial times now are the poor house of the continent, see Zimbabwe.

I am tired of everybody pointing the fingers at those who keep them alive. Because without them they would be hunting gnus again.