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EU 'makes UK more valuable to US


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#16    Br Cornelius

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:11 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 10 January 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

i'll have to watch the news at ten to see what the score is. when it comes to foreign affairs has the US always been right? they said Germany would overrun the UK within weeks of France Falling. Did they? they also said the UK couldn't recapture the Falklands, how did that end? moral of the story do not underestimate the British. goodnight.
I think its quite clear that they sit round the table with the EU and carry out negotiations. They understand what it takes to sit at the top table and set the agenda - and the Uk is small beer. They currently see the Uk as a lever of influence within the EU, outside they are not that important when negotiating with the largest open market in the world.

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#17    Br Cornelius

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 10 January 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Who are the US saying our international influence will diminish with? I'm assuming they don't mean the whole planet....and i'm guessing they weren't referring to themselves either...so who exactly?
Within the EU and within the US - they currently  consider us an influential bridge in influencing the EU.

International relations are mediated by political blocks and if you are not in one you are small beer.

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Edited by Br Cornelius, 10 January 2013 - 10:14 PM.

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#18    TSS

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 10 January 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Within the EU and within the US - they currently  consider us an influential bridge in influencing the EU.

Br Cornelius

Ah right. Well what would it matter to them though...they'll still be our number 1 for exports (money matters) so other then not being seen as a bridge for them to walk over I can't see how their new opinion of us in relation to Europe would actually effect us in reality?

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#19    Br Cornelius

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:21 PM

Britain is a sympathetic ear in an generally hostile EU - for them it means less influence, and for Britain it means we could likely see a divestment of industrial investment as the US moved to countries within the EU to avoid trade tariffs.

What they are saying to the Irish nation;

http://www.rte.ie/ne...36849,flash,232

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Edited by Br Cornelius, 10 January 2013 - 10:34 PM.

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#20    shaddow134

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

Well if Cameron won't come out then he should at least Veto everything that doesn't benefit the UK,counter productive yes,but a lot more fun for the British Electorate,who just love it when the French and Germans get upset..

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#21    Render

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:17 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 10 January 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Dont make me laugh, Britain's international influence will be diminished if they leave the EU. and what influence does the EU have they are a laughing stock to the world community, the euro zone for starters is in ruins. keep an eye on this situation just because its gone out of the media doesnt mean problem solved, the PIIGS are still in transit to the slaughter.

The Yanks know you cannot rely upon the Europeans. never have never will. European politics is p*** poor. the EU as shambles. - over half of the people of europe would vote to leave the EU if given the vote. just look at voting in the EU. every single year the turnout as fallen, and politically lurched to the right.

The Dutch said NO, the French said NO the Irish said NO. every time the people have been given the vote on referendums they have voted NO. and each and every time ignored, the Irish Vote was the best. by making them vote twice until they Voted YES, mind you they didn't even give the Dutch or the French a second vote they simply ignored them.

The end game is a Federation, you either believe in national democracy or you don't. its now time for the UK to get in the Life boat and let the EU-titanic sail into that iceberg.

Eum, the dutch or the french didn't have referendums to leave Europe....where the hell are you getting this?? Do you understand the nature of referendums?
They voted on treaties and enlargement of the EU ... not to leave it, quite the opposite. France was one of the founding members lol...do you re-read your posts before you post them ? You should.

Get your facts straight if you're gonna get all emotional about it.

Posted Image France - Before allowing the new candidate member states to join the European Communities, founding member France held a referendum on 23 April 1972. The turnout was 60.7%, with 68.3% in favour.
Following that approval, three of the four candidate states (Ireland, Denmark, Norway) likewise held referendums on the issue of joining the European Communities. The results were: Posted Image United Kingdom The Conservative government of Edward Heath did not hold a referendum before the United Kingdom joined. Labour's manifesto for the 1974 general election included a pledge for a referendum, so after Labour won under Harold Wilson, the referendum was held on whether to remain in the Communities. The result was 67.2% in favour, with a turnout of 64.0%.

Posted Image Ireland The Tenth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland permitted Ireland to ratify the Single European Act. It was approved by referendum on 26 May 1987. The result of the referendum was 69.9% in favour.
Three countries held referendums on the ratification of the treaty of Maastricht: France, Ireland and Denmark. Result was a majority of 68.7% in favour. Turnout was 57.31%. The treaty was verified with a slim margin of victory of 51.1% in favour. Turnout was 69.7%.

Two countries held referendums on the ratification of the treaty of Amsterdam: Ireland and Denmark. Result was a majority of 61.74% in favour. Turnout was 56.2%.
  • Posted Image Ireland - Irish referendums on Treaty of Nice
In 2001 Irish voters rejected the Treaty of Nice by 53.9%, but with only 34.8% of the electorate voting, while in 2002 they accepted the Treaty by 62.9% with 49.5% of the electorate voting.

Several member states used or intended to use referendums to ratify the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe (TCE).
The results were as follows: Ireland - European Fiscal Compact referendum, 60.3% in favour (31 May 2012)


Notice this is not about leaving Europe...haha...seriously, nice try though.


The historical roots of the European Union lie in the Second World War. Europeans are determined to prevent such killing and destruction ever happening again. Soon after the war, Europe is split into East and West as the 40-year-long Cold War begins. West European nations create the Council of Europe in 1949. It is a first step towards cooperation between them, but six countries want to go further.
9 May 1950 — French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman presents a plan for deeper cooperation. Later, every 9 May is celebrated as 'Europe Day'.
18 April 1951
Based on the Schuman plan, six countries sign a treaty to run their heavy industries – coal and steel – under a common management. In this way, none can on its own make the weapons of war to turn against the other, as in the past. The six are Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.

Posted Image Founding Member States: Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.
http://europa.eu/abo...59/index_en.htm

Educate yourself will ya.


America knows Europe is rising and becoming a stronger force to reckon with...the UK is providing them an easier link to the EU because the UK does nothing better than brownnose the USA.

Edited by Render, 11 January 2013 - 06:22 AM.


#22    Render

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:34 AM

UK risks 'turning inwards' over EU referendum - US official


Quote

The Obama administration has publicly expressed concern about the impact of a UK referendum on its future relationship with the EU.
Philip Gordon, a senior official in the US State Department, said it was in America's interests to see a "strong British voice within the EU".
"Referendums have often turned countries inwards," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-20961651


#23    Render

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:30 AM

German MPs warn UK EU exit would be 'economic disaster'

Quote

A new, strongly worded warning against Britain leaving the EU has come from a delegation of visiting German MPs.
It follows Wednesday's expression of concern from a senior US official.

The cross-party delegation from the Bundestag's EU Affairs committee was in London to highlight Germany's growing alarm at the danger of a possible UK exit.
The chairman of the committee said if Britain left the EU, it would be disastrous for its economy.
The delegation is meeting British government officials and talking to MPs at the House of Commons.
Briefing reporters at the German Embassy in London, Gunther Krichbaum, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's ruling CDU party, said: "Losing the single market for the UK would be an economic disaster."
He added that more business leaders in Britain needed to make the case for continued membership.
Mr Krichbaum also argued that Britain would suffer a significant loss of global prestige if it left the EU club.
"Britain leaving [the EU] would weaken the European idea, but it would weaken Britain's position in the world more," he said.

Following Wednesday's public warning from the US Assistant Secretary of European Affairs, Philip Gordon, that the US wanted to see a continued strong UK voice within the EU, some members of the German delegation expressed the view that a British departure from the EU could damage relations with Washington for both London and Brussels.
Mr Krichbaum added that from his point of view, any attempt by Britain to renegotiate its position to reach a "new settlement" for continued membership would be resisted by its European partners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-20974666


#24    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 10 January 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

The deluded Euro skeptics may not think their influence will diminish outside of the EU, but those of a more sane disposition know better.

Br Cornelius

Britains politicians have gone soft in the head because of WW2.

As a result our economy has been distorted away from those activities which make a nation powerful towards services. We need to rebalance the economy and adopt protectionistic policies to product the new industries.

Once the economy has been rebalanced we need -
1. 10 aircraft carriers not 2.
2. 1,000,000 troops not 220,000
3. Lots of fighter jets, destroyers and tanks.

Then we go take over the oil. Obviously we go for our enemies like Iran and then BP can make a fortune for the British Government.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 11 January 2013 - 01:47 PM.


#25    questionmark

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 10 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Ah right. Well what would it matter to them though...they'll still be our number 1 for exports (money matters) so other then not being seen as a bridge for them to walk over I can't see how their new opinion of us in relation to Europe would actually effect us in reality?

Your #1, but for the US falls  under the chapter another minor trading partner:

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#26    stevewinn

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 10 January 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

I think its quite clear that they sit round the table with the EU and carry out negotiations. They understand what it takes to sit at the top table and set the agenda - and the Uk is small beer. They currently see the Uk as a lever of influence within the EU, outside they are not that important when negotiating with the largest open market in the world.

Br Cornelius

i seen the news report. the Germans have come out warning us about leaving. their main argument is economic - this is precisely why the sooner we leave the better we dont want be so consumed by the EU to the extent such as Greece, and your very own country- Ireland. finding ourselves in a situation were we can never break free.

the only interest for the US is the fact they can reply upon the UK to keep the politics in europe going in a direction likened by the US so they can concentrate their efforts in other parts of the world

US intelligence and strategic planners must now think we are nearing the point at which we'll leave the EU. which for people like me is very encouraging. remember ' A kite flies highest against the wind, Not with it.

Edited by stevewinn, 11 January 2013 - 04:47 PM.

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#27    stevewinn

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

View PostRender, on 11 January 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Eum, the dutch or the french didn't have referendums to leave Europe....where the hell are you getting this?? Do you understand the nature of referendums?
They voted on treaties and enlargement of the EU ... not to leave it, quite the opposite. France was one of the founding members lol...do you re-read your posts before you post them ? You should.

Get your facts straight if you're gonna get all emotional about it.

Posted Image France - Before allowing the new candidate member states to join the European Communities, founding member France held a referendum on 23 April 1972. The turnout was 60.7%, with 68.3% in favour.
Following that approval, three of the four candidate states (Ireland, Denmark, Norway) likewise held referendums on the issue of joining the European Communities. The results were: Posted Image United Kingdom The Conservative government of Edward Heath did not hold a referendum before the United Kingdom joined. Labour's manifesto for the 1974 general election included a pledge for a referendum, so after Labour won under Harold Wilson, the referendum was held on whether to remain in the Communities. The result was 67.2% in favour, with a turnout of 64.0%.

Posted Image Ireland The Tenth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland permitted Ireland to ratify the Single European Act. It was approved by referendum on 26 May 1987. The result of the referendum was 69.9% in favour.
Three countries held referendums on the ratification of the treaty of Maastricht: France, Ireland and Denmark. Result was a majority of 68.7% in favour. Turnout was 57.31%. The treaty was verified with a slim margin of victory of 51.1% in favour. Turnout was 69.7%.

Two countries held referendums on the ratification of the treaty of Amsterdam: Ireland and Denmark. Result was a majority of 61.74% in favour. Turnout was 56.2%.
  • Posted Image Ireland - Irish referendums on Treaty of Nice
In 2001 Irish voters rejected the Treaty of Nice by 53.9%, but with only 34.8% of the electorate voting, while in 2002 they accepted the Treaty by 62.9% with 49.5% of the electorate voting.

Several member states used or intended to use referendums to ratify the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe (TCE).
The results were as follows: Ireland - European Fiscal Compact referendum, 60.3% in favour (31 May 2012)


Notice this is not about leaving Europe...haha...seriously, nice try though.


The historical roots of the European Union lie in the Second World War. Europeans are determined to prevent such killing and destruction ever happening again. Soon after the war, Europe is split into East and West as the 40-year-long Cold War begins. West European nations create the Council of Europe in 1949. It is a first step towards cooperation between them, but six countries want to go further.
9 May 1950 — French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman presents a plan for deeper cooperation. Later, every 9 May is celebrated as 'Europe Day'.
18 April 1951
Based on the Schuman plan, six countries sign a treaty to run their heavy industries – coal and steel – under a common management. In this way, none can on its own make the weapons of war to turn against the other, as in the past. The six are Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.

Posted Image Founding Member States: Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.
http://europa.eu/abo...59/index_en.htm

Educate yourself will ya.


America knows Europe is rising and becoming a stronger force to reckon with...the UK is providing them an easier link to the EU because the UK does nothing better than brownnose the USA.


Where in my post did i say France The Netherland or Ireland Held a referendum to leave the EU. - if you read it correctly. i never said what you are implying.

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#28    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 11 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Where in my post did i say France The Netherland or Ireland Held a referendum to leave the EU. - if you read it correctly. i never said what you are implying.

"
The Dutch said NO, the French said NO the Irish said NO. every time the people have been given the vote on referendums they have voted NO. and each and every time ignored, the Irish Vote was the best. by making them vote twice until they Voted YES, mind you they didn't even give the Dutch or the French a second vote they simply ignored them."


#29    stevewinn

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:51 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 11 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

"
The Dutch said NO, the French said NO the Irish said NO. every time the people have been given the vote on referendums they have voted NO. and each and every time ignored, the Irish Vote was the best. by making them vote twice until they Voted YES, mind you they didn't even give the Dutch or the French a second vote they simply ignored them."

where exactly did i say it was a referendum on leaving the EU. just highlight the word in bold, you wont find it because i never said such. - anyone knows if they follow these type of threads or discussions, they'll be well aware of what referendums the French said NO the Dutch said NO and the Irish said NO are referring to and wiki or google should not be needed. still should be fresh in the memory.

Noticed the French have go into former colony of Mali in a bid to stop the terrorists.
President Francois Hollande says French troops are taking part in operations against Islamists in northern Mali.
French troops "have brought support this afternoon to Malian units to fight against terrorist elements"

i guess it'll be on the news tonight.

Edited by stevewinn, 11 January 2013 - 08:10 PM.

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#30    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:11 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 11 January 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

where exactly did i say it was a referendum on leaving the EU. just highlight the word in bold, you wont find it because i never said such. - anyone knows if they follow these type of threads or discussions, they'll be well aware of what referendums the French said NO the Dutch said NO and the Irish said NO are referring to and wiki or google should not be needed. still should be fresh in the memory.

What referendums did they say no to? Joining?

And for the record, when you state "over half of the people of europe would vote to leave the EU if given the vote", then directly move on to the aforementioned quote from my previous post, then it looks like the two are directly related; it looks like you were referring to referendums to leave the EU.

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 11 January 2013 - 08:13 PM.





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