Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 3 votes

Snowden helps NSA spot future revolutionaries

snowden nsa leak patriot act natural disaster insurrection

  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#31    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,318 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:36 PM

OK, I understand what you're saying.

Partly true, partly untrue, simply by way of exaggeration.  From Shakespeare on, people have wanted to kill all the lawyers.  Many times I can sympathize, completely.

However many times selfless lawyers seek and deliver justice, as long as a neutral and principled judge ends up in the equation that is a court proceeding.

The rule of law is a good thing, AS LONG AS the laws are just and intelligently written.  The various constitutions, state and federal, are meant to deliver good governance by way of restricting the state's powers and protecting the rights and libery of each and every individual.


#32    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 13,063 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:43 PM

You need balance between and laws and individual discretion.  For example I think the notion of dismissing evidence because proper procedure was not followed is an outrage.  It keeps the jury bound by rules of evidence rather than doing what it is suppose to do.

All societies have a rule of law, even brutal dictators are bound by all sorts of rules in their society.  These rules can be more or less arbitrary.  Rigid, written legal codes create problems, leaving everything up to the magistrate creates problems.  I know it cannot be perfect, but I think the best is a balance.


#33    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,318 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:24 PM

I did not use the term "individual discretion" Frank, you did.

I said "individual rights and liberties".  That is not discretion.

The balance has been struck between the rights and liberties of the individual and the power of the government, way back in 1787 when the US Constitution was written, and 1789 when the Bill Of Rights was incorporated and the document ratified.  That balance was quite simple and quite well defined in those documents.  A fairly concise statement of it can be found in the Preamble to the document, but to really be familiar with the details, one must read the entire document, and scholarly treatments of it over the years.

You may not get to see it there in Vietnam, but soon there will be an HBO special entitled "Gideon's Army" which will go very much into what you and I discuss here.  Gideon is from the big case Gideon v. Wainwright, the case which established that every individual has the right to an attorney in criminal proceedings.

You completely misunderstand the role of the jury in our system Frank.  The jury is "we the people", in the English style.  Further, as will be eloquently described in Gideon's Army, under our system (probably not the Vietnamese system) the presumption of innocence is paramount.  In our system, the defendant must be presumed innocent.  The government MUST PROVE, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant committed any crime.

I hope you get to see the documentary.


#34    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 13,063 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:32 PM

I hate to tell you this but I did go five years to University in the States, and am very familiar with the Constitution and its history, so you do not need to patronize me on that.

My view of the Constitution is that it is reasonably good, but not great, and considerably out of date.  The 14th Amendment made it flexible enough to survive in the modern world, but the logjam you see today is an example of its flaws.


#35    regeneratia

regeneratia

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,824 posts
  • Joined:20 Jun 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:All my posts are my own views, my own perceptions. Will not be finding links for why I think the way I do.

  • It is time to put the big guns down now, Little Boys!

Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:29 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 21 June 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Much the same response that most people would give someone calling them and trying to sell them something, I would imagine. Except they'd probably be a bit more poilte than just to put the phone down.

I call your post speculation.

Truth is such a rare quality, a stranger so seldom met in this civilization of fraud, that it is never received freely, but must fight its way into the world
Professor Hilton Hotema
(quote from THE BIBLE FRAUD)

Robert Heinlein: SECRECY IS THE HALLMARK OF TYRANNY!

#36    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,318 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:47 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 21 June 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

I hate to tell you this but I did go five years to University in the States, and am very familiar with the Constitution and its history, so you do not need to patronize me on that.

My view of the Constitution is that it is reasonably good, but not great, and considerably out of date.  The 14th Amendment made it flexible enough to survive in the modern world, but the logjam you see today is an example of its flaws.

Wow, 5 years at University!  Bravo.

Unfortunately, from what you've posted on this subject so far those 5 years did not include much in the way of constitutional studies.  That, or you failed the course?

Your views remind me of the views of our notorious Constitutional Law Professor Obama.  I'm thinking he bought his diploma at WalMart.


#37    Raptor Witness

Raptor Witness

    Savant

  • Member
  • 2,246 posts
  • Joined:17 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So beautiful

  • ראה

Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:55 AM

From the sound of it, common sense says this is an unlikely conspiracy. I would then argue that it doesn't have to be a conspiracy for someone bad to use the information gathered, in the advent of a revolt, major natural disaster, or a third world war. It's just too easy to capture, or kill, based upon whatever criteria you search for in your PRISM program. According to Snowden, they will have not just our published material, but the keystrokes used to construct the ideas. That's beyond sinister to me. That's evil beyond words, and I'll fight that with every breath I take, because I've seen evidence to support what he's saying.

I now consider the NSA the enemy of mankind.

View PostRaptor Witness, on 19 June 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

Abbas meus hostilis ...

Posted Image



Edited by Raptor Witness, 26 June 2013 - 06:02 AM.

Posted Image "Make Manifest Destiny a memory ..." 12-7-2011  "When the earth is displaced fully three times at the point of destiny ..." 10-29-2013

#38    DONTEATUS

DONTEATUS

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 17,047 posts
  • Joined:15 Feb 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet TEXAS

Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:25 AM

MArk my words,In two months We will hear ,and remember nothing of Snowden! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#39    Professor Buzzkill

Professor Buzzkill

    Integrity is all we have

  • Member
  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:White Cloud

Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:09 AM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 28 June 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

MArk my words,In two months We will hear ,and remember nothing of Snowden! :tu:

i agree we will hear nothing from the media, but good people will remember


#40    coolguy

coolguy

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,879 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:east islip , new york

  • Star trek rules

Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:48 AM

I don't think he did any thing bad,


#41    nothinglizx2

nothinglizx2

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 118 posts
  • Joined:15 Apr 2006

Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

I figured something was up when he was able to somehow get through firewall and he was able to slip out of China and not get caught because of technicalities.  Somehow he got refugee documents that he shouldn't have been able to get.  This Snowden guy isn't safe.  Unless he's somehow a hacker and has hacker friends.  Even This site though is used to find out information about the people who use it, along with facebook, and other websites.  Potentially this bulleton might be used to find out what we all think to identify us.


#42    DONTEATUS

DONTEATUS

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 17,047 posts
  • Joined:15 Feb 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet TEXAS

Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:07 PM

He Will Rot in Russia ! Nobody cares really what he told anyone ! Its All B.S. Its His personal 15 sec`s of Infomany !

This is a Work in Progress!

#43    -M7

-M7

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 145 posts
  • Joined:06 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Planet Earth.

  • Open your mind to new ideas. There can be something else in play.

Posted 01 September 2013 - 11:56 PM

So...Its a conspiracy theory inside a conspiracy theory inside a conspiracy? Or something like that...Now this just complicated things...More. UGH!


#44    Reann

Reann

    Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 901 posts
  • Joined:28 Aug 2012

Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:48 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 21 June 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Seriously? Make a list of the acts of crime and terrorism perpetrated by the Tea Party, and then compare the damage and violence at their rallies to those of "Occupiers" and varied leftists. Some Tea Party events look like lines at the local cafeteria's early bird special. Grandparents, who want a small government, are the new bogeymen of progressives. :rolleyes:
the remark made about the tea party was funny. The tea party are like old timers sitting on lawn chairs holding small flags in their hand , like as though they're just simply patriotic people who want the best for us all , happiness and freedom. And so , that's why they have tried to defend our constitutional liberties.
I don't understand the deception within the far left .They know in their hearts  that these people are harmless.

Edited by Reann, 07 January 2014 - 01:54 PM.


#45    preacherman76

preacherman76

    Humble Servent

  • Member
  • 10,735 posts
  • Joined:16 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Parts Unknown

Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:34 PM

View PostReann, on 07 January 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:


the remark made about the tea party was funny. The tea party are like old timers sitting on lawn chairs holding small flags in their hand , like as though they're just simply patriotic people who want the best for us all , happiness and freedom. And so , that's why they have tried to defend our constitutional liberties.
I don't understand the deception within the far left .They know in their hearts  that these people are harmless.

Shhh, dont tell em that. We love playing the violent bad guys, who could start gunning folks down at the drop of a hat, lol.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users