boundary between animals and us

[man_in_mudboots]

religiously, the boundary between animals and humans is, of course, the possetion of a soul.

scientifically, i think we became truly human when we mastered matter. we can control matter and change our environment like no animal can. an ant can take a sand grain, and move it over here, and a beaver can take a dozen logs and build a dam, but a human can take a stone and chip it into an arrow head, or take two metals and make a new matal, not just move it and build with it, but make it something new. we have mastered matter.

phylosofically we are humans because we recoginze that we are different than an animal. we can figure out why an animals does a thing, not just that it does. because we realize we are better, we are better.

the last two can be debated.

[STIX]

Thats what I was thinking, its very true.

I believe that mastering matter makes a species intelligent, but mastering gravity makes them supperior, and i dont know if you read the news about anti-gravity devices but they are being devised and experimented with by Boeing. Soon enough we can call ourselves a supperior species in the universe. mabye the next classification of a species could be the mastery of space and time.

[man_in_mudboots]

what do you mean by mastering gravity?

[Althalus]

Animals do have souls though, why would they not, and then you have the numerous photo's and sightings of ghost animals. But, saying that, you also the sightings of ghost vehicles, and they do not have souls, but then again why do they not, Buddhist religious views say that rocks and plants have souls, as at one time the material that cars and other man-made objects are made from came from the ground, so why should they not have souls?

[Spartan]

Animals are the toys for humans ,while woman are the comfort

this means you can tame your toy but not your comfort

if you love a particalur animal,lets say your pet dog,then there are no bounderies,well i belive,

sometimes depending on the person a human can learn from a animal

example are mentely ill people,and as soon as they can learn to have a pet,example you start with a fish,then you move to bird or insect,until they bind the bounderies and can then look after a dog or cat

SO the bonderies between human and animal is the amount of careing we place on eachother,even in diverse enviroment(primal or modern)

the answer is simple"love em or watch em die"

[man_in_mudboots]

Animals do have souls though, why would they not, and then you have the numerous photo's and sightings of ghost animals. But, saying that, you also the sightings of ghost vehicles, and they do not have souls, but then again why do they not, Buddhist religious views say that rocks and plants have souls, as at one time the material that cars and other man-made objects are made from came from the ground, so why should they not have souls?

i agree. i believe animals ahve some sort of a soul, maybe not like ours, but something filling the oid, or else they wouldnt be able to love. the religious bit in my first post was merely common opinion. or at least i thought so. rocks and things havein gsould i thik is a littel too much of a stretch.

[X~File_Agent]

Spartan

Animals are the toys for humans

You have to be f*ing kidding me. Try playing with a bear that hasn't been trained since he was a little, and then tell me what happens. Animals can be trained, because they can grow up with us and learn our ways. Even then there is a risk. I can' remember his name, but we all know what happened to one of those guys that did a show in vegas with a tiger. As far as I know he's still in the hospital. Yet somehow all these years, he used the tiger as a "toy", but the tiger said that's enough and nearly killed the guy. You can't go to the wild, and try to tame a wild tiger, at least not without getting a few limbs chewed off.

The point is, your point of view on animals is to put it bluntly "jacked up".

Last time I checked, if a Mosquito wanted to feed. It didn't care if you were the president, it would still come around bite you. And trust me that's not a fun game.

As for the theory of conquering matter. Birds make nests out of pretty much anything, leaves, grass, etc. It's a cycle, yes humans are smarter, but Spartan your making animals sound dumb, and that they are just here for us to hunt or play with, not only is that wrong but you would probably get your head chopped off by some religions who view animals as sacred beings. Think about that for a second.

Edited March 3, 2004 by X~File_Agent

[man_in_mudboots]

Spartan

Animals are the toys for humans

You have to be f*ing kidding me. Try playing with a bear that hasn't been trained since he was a little, and then tell me what happens. Animals can be trained, because they can grow up with us and learn our ways. Even then there is a risk. The point is, your point of view on animals is to put it bluntly "jacked up". Last time I checked, if a Mosquito wanted to feed. It didn't care if you were the president, it would still come around bite you. And trust me that's not a fun game.

he didnt mean literallly. he meant, i think, that the animals were put on earth for humans to do what they saw fit with. eat them, tame them, watch them in amusement, or leave them be to breed and make more food. 'toy' means just something underour control, that we can do with as we please. dont get pised off at a figurative speech. Edited March 3, 2004 by man_in_mudboots

[Spartan]

Hahahaha you idiot,fist "toy"means to play with But we dont becouse you say we cant play with ferosious beast(sorry about spelling)

2nd i said Love,that means i ment that animals are smart,only the smart can love.

3rd man-in-mudboots is right to play,watch and eat

and dam i love beef and pork chops

and yes im not that clear in what i wanted to say so 1 point to you hahah

take care agent muldor hehe

thanx man-in-mudboots

[Althalus]

man in mudboots,

All things are alive in a way, all things have some sort of energy running through them, this I believe is it's way of being alive, perhaps not in the way we are, and therefore not like us, but alive all the same.

[STIX]

what do you mean by mastering gravity?

http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/biebrn.htm

The Biefield Brown anti-gravity effect. This is based on a totally opposite understanding of how gravitational forces are formed than the mainstream definition, it has yet to be disproven. after WWII Brown, Einstein, and Tesela were all gathered together to create a design for a craft using this priciple, Im not sure if they succeded.

[X~File_Agent]

man_in_mudboots

'toy' means just something underour control, that we can do with as we please. dont get pised off at a figurative speech.

I know what he meant and I wasn't p***ed, if I was you'd know. Second, my comments were exactly countering your "do with them as we please". I'm simply arguing that sometimes we cannot control them as you think we can.

Spartan - Chill out. I didn't call you any names, I didn't say you we're stupid, ingnorant, etc. I thought your point of view was "jacked up".

If you have nothing good to say, they don't say anything at all.

[Spartan]

Im sorry X-File Agent

and for calling you a idiot,,i saw a **** word there and my blood started pumping alittle,sorry

the "do with them as we please"means a eat what we want,take care of the animals,and in fact Adam was in charge of giving them names,like cow,sheep ect

not to abouse and all that,i was talking about love as the key to binding with them.

and that God told us we are the animals masters

and i love beef and pork chops,,mmmm yum

again sorry

[X~File_Agent]

I'm sorry for using the f* word. That word just kind of flows in a sentence sometimes. Kind of like when people post *wtf*, and think nothing of it.

You know what it was probably all a big misunderstanding. How about we talk it over some ribs and steaks

Edited March 3, 2004 by X~File_Agent

[Druidus]

Alrighty then. Let us begin. First of all we are one in the same. We have a soul, other animals have souls. Second are you saying that if you were to be lost in the woods you would be making arrowheads and living comfortable from the vast amounts of food and fur you get from hunting? I doubt it. We became more "intelligent" because we were weaker physically. And heres where it gets funny. Many people think that they are superior to animals. Many people are idiots who are deluded. All so-called "superiors"= deluded idiots, all deluded idiots do not equal so-called "superiors". What in hell makes us superior to other animals. They are equal. Other animals and plants do have souls. I have no proof but where's the proof that you have a soul. Finally how can you look deep into the eye of a dog and deny that there is a deeper spirit inside. Perhaps if there were a boundary it would be because humans do not have a soul.

[man_in_mudboots]

man in mudboots,

All things are alive in a way, all things have some sort of energy running through them, this I believe is it's way of being alive, perhaps not in the way we are, and therefore not like us, but alive all the same.

i see the problem, mr althalus. you are thinking of a soul as a 'life force' while im thinking of them a 'spirit of Gods grace'e. phylosophical vs theological. not that theres any thing wrong with your views, its just were on two different thought trains here..

[Talon]

scientifically, i think we became truly human when we mastered matter. we can control matter and change our environment like no animal can. an ant can take a sand grain, and move it over here, and a beaver can take a dozen logs and build a dam, but a human can take a stone and chip it into an arrow head, or take two metals and make a new matal, not just move it and build with it, but make it something new. we have mastered matter.

Actually human is our species not a level of intellegence we've reached, as such we became human the moment our species evolved.

Second, science does not seperate us from animals, as the science of life (biology) simply places us as another animial species, only non-science found beleifs asume humans and animals are seperate.

As for he changing of environment and using tools to make tools, indeed we are the only species to do this, however that is a trait of our species, not a trait of being something more than animal.

People, if your alive your either a plant or an animal. Since we're not plants we must be animals, there is not a special third choose called human of which our species is the only member, deal with it.

[Chris_com28]

because we realize we are better, we are better.

No one is better. We can be as bad as animals and animals can be as good as humans.

I believe that mastering matter makes a species intelligent, but mastering gravity makes them supperior

It would make you very intelligent but it wouldn't make you better than any other species. Anyway that is something that is achieved by a few people, but instead we get stereotyped into all the big things that we have done. A whole species can't discover anti-gravity, only a small percentage of the species.

The only big difference is our physical bodies and our cognitive develpoment. Are adults better than children?

Animals are the toys for humans ,while woman are the comfort

this means you can tame your toy but not your comfort

Are you serious? That makes women seem like a sofa that you dump the moment it starts to get uncomfortable.

[Talon]

Chris_com28 Nice to know someone else isn't forming their argument around possession of souls

[man_in_mudboots]

No one is better. We can be as bad as animals and animals can be as good as humans.

how can an animal be bad? animals are immoral. they cannot do bad because, of course, they have no moral laws or consience to go against. they cannot be good, because they cant follow the moral laws or their consciences, because they have none. animals are neither amoral nor moral, they just act.

[Talon]

how can an animal be bad? animals are immoral. they cannot do bad because, of course, they have no moral laws or consience to go against. they cannot be good, because they cant follow the moral laws or their consciences, because they have none. animals are neither amoral nor moral, they just act.

Although its true that most animals run on instinct, animals like apes do act on consience and although they can't understand good and evil, they can do acts which can be seen to be just or unjust

[man_in_mudboots]

im not being sarcastic, i mean really, give me some acts of apes that can be veiwed asjust or unjust. im completley lost here.

[Talon]

That would be like asking me to list acts of someone I've never met. I've never met an ape out humans, therefore I cannot answer, but they do have the ability to show kindness or be unkind, which varies from individual to individual and is not run by instinct.

[Druidus]

im not being sarcastic, i mean really, give me some acts of apes that can be veiwed asjust or unjust. im completley lost here.

I'll give you some. When I was in Kenya we went to a chimp sanctuary called Sweetwaters. When they were giving out fruits for food, the chimps would get one each and then later get more. They all knew this. One chimp, the one I watched very closely, got a mango and ran off into the brush. Seconds later he came back with no mango. He slipped quitely back in the group and put his hand out as if waiting for another fruit. He got one. He ran off and again repeated it. He ended with a mango, a banana, and some guava thing. Now let me repeat, they all know the rules. When they get a fruit they go eat it. Later there will be more. This guy lied and cheated to get more. It worked too. Is lying or cheating considered unjust? Another example, when boats sink near shore but no emergency signal gets out, dolphins are known to save survivors they don't even know and bring them to shore. Is that considered just? I don't know if some people would do anything like that. Besides that, there are many "unjust" or "just" things that other animals can do. By the way many animals can understand our concept of good or evil. The thing is though, it's just our concept. Our concept changes all the time. Many years ago, divorces were considered evil, now they are commonplace. Sex before marriage was evil now it too is commonplace. It all depends on your point of view.

[man_in_mudboots]

about the chimp, he knew he was doing something his human caretakers didnt like, and that they would be angry if they found out, but beyond that did he actually realize he was doing something morally wrong, or just something his caretakers dissaproved of? if his caretakers would not have fussed at him, would he still think of it as wrong? no.