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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2431    Abramelin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:23 AM

men thi rêd thêr hju jef, was immer in thjustere worde. Thêr vmbe warth hju thrvch tha stjurar Kaelta hêten, tha landsâta mênadon that et en êrnôma wêra.

maar de raad die zij gaf, was immer in duistere woorden. Daar om werd zij door de Stjurar (sturers/stuurlui) Kaelta genoemd, de landzaten meenden dat 't een erenaam waar.

but the advice she gave was always in dark words. That's why the Stiurar (steersmen/sailors) called her Kaelta, the landlubbers thought it was a title.


#2432    Abramelin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:29 AM

View PostApol, on 06 February 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

Thank you, Mario and Puzz, for your compliments.
Puzz is right, the heading of my website is a Scandinavian Bronze Age ship petroglyph - from Bjørnstad in Skjeberg close to Sarpsborg, Southeast Norway.

I have borrowed it from the book

Anton Wilhelm Brøgger and Haakon Shetelig: Vikingeskipene – Deres forgjengere og etterfølgere (Dreyer forlag, Oslo, 1950).

It is also published in English:

Anton Wilhelm Brogger and Haakon Shetelig: The Viking Ships (Twayne Publishers Inc., New York, 1971).

I have tried to paste the photo into this blog, but I don't know how to do it. Maybe someone of you can tell me, or maybe it isn't possible

What photo do you mean? From the cover of the book?

Anyway, you could create an account with a free picture host (like Photobucket), upload the photo, and copy the link that will be created, the one that's in HTML code, <img src=" and so on (so not the one in BBCode), and paste it somewhere in your blog.


#2433    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:35 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 February 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

men thi rêd thêr hju jef, was immer in thjustere worde. Thêr vmbe warth hju thrvch tha stjurar Kaelta hêten, tha landsâta mênadon that et en êrnôma wêra.

maar de raad die zij gaf, was immer in duistere woorden. Daar om werd zij door de Stjurar (sturers/stuurlui) Kaelta genoemd, de landzaten meenden dat 't een erenaam waar.

but the advice she gave was always in dark words. That's why the Stiurar (steersmen/sailors) called her Kaelta, the landlubbers thought it was a title.

Yes, Ive thought about that now more.

The dark words (unclear words) + her nimble tongue = the name of chatterer - who speak so fast their words are unclear (dark and mysterious sounding)

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2434    Abramelin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:43 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 06 February 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

Yes, Ive thought about that now more.

The dark words (unclear words) + her nimble tongue = the name of chatterer - who speak so fast their words are unclear (dark and mysterious sounding)

Her nimble tongue had nothing to do with it. That's how I read that line.


#2435    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:47 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 February 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

Her nimble tongue had nothing to do with it. That's how I read that line.
OK, so what do you make of it? If you go on dark words, what is the word the OLB speaking Frisians would be referring to Kalta? call, cold - and if skald is what you say, is that a word used in Old Frisian and what is the root for it?
And it will be etymologically (or at least the same meaning ie; Rum/spacious) related so don't use that one on me.

Edited by The Puzzler, 06 February 2013 - 04:48 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2436    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:53 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatti

The Chatti (also Chatthi or Catti) were an ancient Germanic tribe whose homeland was near the upper Weser.[1] They settled in central and northern Hesse and southern Lower Saxony, along the upper reaches of the Weser River and in the valleys and mountains of the Eder, Fulda and Weser River regions, a district approximately corresponding to Hesse-Kassel, though probably somewhat more extensive. According to Tacitus,[2] among them were the Batavians, until an internal quarrel drove them out, to take up new lands at the mouth of the Rhine


Nico Roymans has suggested that the Chatti developed in proto-history from "complex, multi-ethnic origins" and were likely part of a "considerable local continuity of settlement and material culture". He considered the society was made up of all sorts of older tribes as well including the Eburoneans

Edited by The Puzzler, 06 February 2013 - 04:55 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2437    Abramelin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:25 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 06 February 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

OK, so what do you make of it? If you go on dark words, what is the word the OLB speaking Frisians would be referring to Kalta? call, cold - and if skald is what you say, is that a word used in Old Frisian and what is the root for it?
And it will be etymologically (or at least the same meaning ie; Rum/spacious) related so don't use that one on me.

You yourself have used Old Norse in the past to explain words in the OLB.


The verses of the skalds contain a great profusion of kennings, the fixed metaphors found in most northern European poetry of the time. Kennings are devices ready to supply a standard image to form an alliterating half-line to fit the requirements of dróttkvætt; but the substantially greater technical demands of skaldic verse required that these devices be multiplied and compounded in order to meet its demands for skill and wordplay. These images can therefore become somewhat hermetic, at least to those who fail to grasp the allusions that lie at the root of many of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skald

The skalds also employed complex kennings in which the determinant, or sometimes the base-word, is itself made up of a further kenning: grennir gunn-más “feeder of war-gull” = “feeder of raven” = “warrior” (Þorbjörn hornklofi: Glymdrápa 6); eyðendr arnar hungrs “destroyers of eagle’s hunger” = “feeders of eagle” = “warrior” (Þorbjörn Þakkaskáld: Erlingsdrápa 1) (referring to carnivorous birds scavenging after a battle). Where one kenning is embedded in another like this, the whole figure is said to be tvíkent “doubly determined, twice modified”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning

Hermeticism in poetry, or Hermetic poetry, is a form of obscure and difficult poetry, as of the Symbolist school, wherein the language and imagery are subjective, and where the suggestive power of the sound of words is as important as their meaning.[1] The name alludes to the mythical Hermes Trismegistus, supposed author of mystic doctrines composed in the Neoplatonic tradition.

http://en.wikipedia....ticism_(poetry)



Now this is fun:

oudnoors kilting, kjalta [rok] /  Old Norse kilting, kjalta [skirt]
http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/kilt

Old Norse kilting "shirt," kjalta "fold made by gathering up to the knees".
http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 February 2013 - 07:27 AM.


#2438    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:38 AM

Have been re-reading some books by L.A.Waddell..........he is of the opinion that the British Khatti / catti are one and the same people as the Mediteranian Khatti / catti from around Cilicia , and that they were Phoenicians , who were called by the Greeks/Macedonians as Hattians/Hittites ...Khitti and Khatti being the name they called themselves .

By trying to find more info on whether the Frisian are also the Phrygians......... it was also mentioned that the name Phrygians came from the name Bryges , and that because of dialectic differences the Macedons used the sound Bry,Bri and Bhry , whereas elsewhere in asia minor they used the sound vry , vri and vhry, and also pry , pri , and phry , maybe in scandinavia and the area of Britain we used a different dialectic sound of fry, fri and fhry ..

This B,V,F,P switch often seems ( though obviously not always ) to mean "of" as i think in names like Pindus mountains , being P = "Of" Indus  mtns , and in names like Parmenian , which i think just means "of " Armenia .... and maybe names like Vercingetorix meaning "ov" or "of" Erse (ancient name for Ireland )

As i think Bretons , Britons and Frisians were all one people , possibly with Scans as well i have often wondered why we do not see many peoples /tribes with the start of their names being Fry or Fri in Britain , but on reading Waddell , i wonder if the Fri has become Bri and  the Brigantes are the Frisians/Phrygians in Britain

Note for Abe ... in the Phrygian language Ates is Fathers , and fates of fathers , or of the fathers  , the name Cananfates could be the land of the Cananite fathers  ??

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 06 February 2013 - 11:46 AM.


#2439    Abramelin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:57 AM

I think Waddell as a source of information is a bit outdated:

The Phoenician Origin of Britons, Scots & Anglo-Saxons
by L. A. Waddell (Williams & Norgate, 1924; 2nd ed., 1925)


http://www.jrbookson...com/waddell.htm

And they now know more about the Phrygians than during Waddell's time.


Some words from the Phrygian language will be similar to some words in Nordic languages, but that is based on them being Indo European languages.

The Phrygian language is most closely related to the Greek language, having a shared origin, but it still doesn't resemble Old Frisian at all.


#2440    Abramelin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:17 PM

If we are restarting the discussion about the Chatti, then this is one of my old posts about them:


View PostAbramelin, on 06 November 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Because of the Cananefates and the Batavi, plus the -CH-/-C-/-H-/-G- shifts, I started looking a bit deeper into the tribe they had split off from: the Chatti. And with that I will try to show you what you can 'prove' with nothing but - what I love to call - wordfk.

This will be a long and winding post, so I will start with a copy of the last sentence:

"Chatti/Catti/Cenni/Cananefates/Knn-Canan/Phoenicians/Katwijk/Kadvik/Kaduik/Kadik/Cadiz and so on."



Chatti

a Germanic tribe. At the time of Julius Caesar (midfirst century B.C.) the Chatti formed one of the Suevi tribes. Later, the Chatti were numbered among the Franks. The last mention of the Chatti dates from the end of the fourth century. The Hessians, for whom the Land of Hesse was named, were descendants of the Chatti.

http://encyclopedia2...onary.com/Catti

The next is a link to a German site about te Chatti. Just check the words in red.

But this remark, "Sprich nicht "Katten, Schatten" oder gar "Tschätten", sondern "Hatten" oder tatsächlich "Chatten" [xatən] mit /ch/ wie bei ach" I will translate:

"Do not say "Katten. Shatten" or even "Tshetten", but "Hatten" or actually "Chatten" [xatən] with /ch/ as in LoCH Ness. (= the Dutch, Semitic and Scottish-Gaelic gutteral consonant, like you are coughing up a bug that's stuck in your throat)"

http://www.heinrich-...volk/chatti.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatti

http://books.google....i catti&f=false



CHATTI
Eth. CHATTI or CATTI (Eth.??tt??, Eth. ??tta?), one of the great tribes of Germany, which rose to great importance after the decay of the power of the Cherusci. Their name is still preserved in Hessen (Hassen). They were the chief tribe of the Hermiones (Plin. Nat. 4.28), and are described by Caesar (Caes. Gal. 4.19, 6.10) as belonging to the Suevi, although Tacitus (Germ. 30, 31) clearly distinguishes them, and that justly, for no German tribe remained in its original locality more permanently than the Chatti. We first meet with their name in the campaigns of Drusus, when they acquired celebrity by their wars against the Romans, and against the Cheruscans who were their mortal enemies. (Tac. Germ. 36, Ann. 1.55, 12.27, 28; D. C. 54.33, 36, 55.1, 67.4, 5; Tac. Hist. 4.37, Agr. 39, 41; Flor. 4.12; Liv. Epit. 140; Suet. Domit. 6; Frontin. Strat. 1.1; Plin. Paneg. 20.) The Romans gained, indeed, many advantages over them, and under Germanicus even destroyed Mattium, their capital (Tac. Ann. 1.56), but never succeeded in reducing them to permanent submission. In the time of the war against the Marcomannians, they made predatory incursions into Upper Germany and Rhaetia (Capitol. M. Anton. 8). The last time they are mentioned is towards the end of the fourth century. (Greg. Tur. 2.9; Claud. Bell. Get. 419.) After this they disappear among the Franks. Their original habitations appear to have extended from the Westerwald in the west to the Saale in Franconia, and from the river Main in the south as far as the sources of the Elison and the Weser, so that they occupied exactly the modern country of Hessen, including, perhaps, a portion of the northwest of Bavaria. Ptolemy (2.11.22) places them more eastward, perhaps in consequence of their victories over the Cheruscans. The Batavi are said to have been a branch of the Chatti, who emigrated into Gaul. Some have supposed that the Cenni, with whom the Romans were at war under Caracalla, were no others than the Chatti (D. C. 77.14); but this is more than doubtful. (Comp. Zeuss, Die Deutschen u. die Nachbarstämme, p. 327, foll.; Wilhelm, German. p. 181, foll.; Latham, Tac. Germ. p. 105, foil.)

http://www.perseus.t...ntry=chatti-geo


Now check this thread, from post 10 and onwards:

2) The name "Chatti" is obviously Germanic, before the first Germanic sound shift (Grimm's Law), the name would have been something along the lines of *Kaddi.

http://www.eupedia.c...in-amp-Gascogne


Keith-1:
The family of Keith, Marischal of Scotland derives its origin from the Catti, people of Germany, bordering on the
Saltus Hircinus [the Hercynian Forest]. [ . . . ] in the time of Tiberius they were entirely routed by Germanicus. On
this overthrow part of the Catti submitted to the Roman yoke, in order to retain their possessions in their native
country, which is now subject to the Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel who [ . . . ] designs himself Princeps Cattorum. But
the most part, under the conduct of their leader Battus, left their native country and settled about the mouth of
the Rhine, from whence that country was named Batavia --In the reign of Corbredus II sirnamed GaIdus, the
Batavian Catti sent acolony to Britain. Being separated in a storm, part of them arrived in the Thames10, and the
rest were driven to the northern parts of Scotland, and landed in that part called Cathness; which name took its
rise from Catti [ . . . ] They remained in possession of the lands for upwards of 900 years, and spread out in several
branches through the Highlands, which are at this day distinguished by several sirnames, such as Keith, Sutherland,
Clanmhurich or Macpherson, Macgillivray, Etc. under the general denomination of Clan Chattan.

The ancient name of Chatti, or Catti, came in time to be changed to Kethi, Keycht, and more lately to Keith, the
present name of this ancient family.


http://www.clan-macp...nts/alang10.pdf


Katwijk, Dutch equivalent of Chadwick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadwick

Chadwick is a English surname, and appears to mean "from Katwijk"



The name "Katwijk" probably has its origins in the name of a Germanic tribe called the Chatten (Chatti). The Dutch word "wijk" means "area", so the name probably meant something like "the Chatti area".

In Romans times, Katwijk was a place of strategic importance. It was located at the Roman Empire's northern border, at the mouth of the Rhine river, which in Roman times was larger in this area than it is today. There was a good deal of traffic along the Rhine. Katwijk was also a jumping-off point for the voyage to Britain.

Built during the reign of Emperor Claudius (41-54), the town's name was Lugdunum Batavorum. The town's name was later associated with the name of the city of Leiden, but this is now thought to be incorrect.

In 1231, the first reference to Catwijck appeared in records.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katwijk



Keith-2:
The history of the Chatten or Catti before living in Hesse is quite shrowded. Some claim that they descend from phœnician traders, and even from the Tribe of Gad. What happened to them after the Rome arrived in germaniæ historicæ is even more interesting. Those who stayed became part of Germany under Roman rule. Some bravehearts moved on. From the College of Arms, London, England, is an extract from a work on the origin of names about the Keith clan: "This family derive their descent from the Chatti, or Catti, now Hesse, a tribe of Germans, who dwelt in what is now called Hesse-Cassel, and whose name ... is preserved in Katzenfort, Katzenburgh, etc., Germany. About B. C. 100, a part of this tribe descended the Rhine, and settled in Batavia or Holland, where the name is also maintained in Katwijk aan Zee, Katswoulde, etc."

During the reign of Corbred the second, King of Scotland, circa A. D. 76, a part of these Catti emigrated to Britain, some of whom, called Fordun, "Catti Meliboci," were driven to the northern parts of Scotland and landed in that part called Kateness, or Caithness; i.e. Catti's promontory. The Celtic name for that district is "Catt taobh," Catti's side; and the inhabitants are styled "Cattich." Caithness is also called "gall taobh," "Stranger's side, way, or shore."

The first of the tribe named by the Senachies is Gilli Chattan Noir, chief of the Catti, temp. King Alpine (A.D. 831-834), from whom descend the Kethi, Keychts, Keths, or Keiths; and also the MacPhersons, Sutherlands, etc., known under the general name of Chattan Clan. The ancient title (Celtic) of the Earls of Sutherland is "Morfhear chat," Lord Cat; literally Greatman Cat."

The 17th century English/Scottish historian, Sir Robert Gordon stated, "In the year of Christ four score and two, there arrived {in Scotland] a great company of Germans named "Catti", a valiant people of mighty bodies who were banished out of their native land for killing of a Roman general. At their first arrival, their captain went onshore to spy the land, when he was suddenly invaded by a company of monstrous big wild cats that much molested the country. The fight between them was cruel, yet in the end he killed them all. From thence the thanes and earls of Catti, or Sutherland, even unto this day do carry on their crest or badge, above their arms, a cat sitting with one of its feet upwards ready to catch his prey." He continued, "There is not a rat in Sutherland. And, if they do come thither in ships from other ports, which often happeneth, they die presently as soon as they do smell the air of that country." Whatever the fate of rats in the area, there is tradition that after landing in the north of Scotland, the Catti named the area of Caithness and their chief married the daughter of the Pictish King Brude.

Robert, the chief of the Catti in 1010, fought against the Norsemen. He slew Comus, the Viking leader of the invaders, and thus gained a complete victory, for which Malcolm II gave him the lands of Keith in East-Lothian. He was succeeded by his son Robert, who also fought against the Norsemen in Fife. Somewhat later on the 7th of November, 1324, Robert I. granted a charter of the lands of Keith Marischal to Sir Robert Keith and his heirs, and the office of Great Marischal of Scotland, on account of his support against the English -- but then I have far departed from my task, which should focus on Hessen and what happened to the people who did not depart Roman rule.


http://larocheusa.org/deutsch1.htm


Chatham:
There are several theories as to the origin of the name Chatham. It was first recorded as Cetham in 880, its name coming from the British root ceto and the Old English ham thus meaning a forest settlement.[1]. The origin of the word 'Chatham' may have come from the same root as Catti or 'Chatti' named after people who immigrated to Britain.[2]. An alternative explanation is that it comes from two Saxon words cyte, a cottage, and ham, a village: a village of cottages [3] . The Domesday Book records the place as Ceteham.

http://everything.ex.../Chatham,_Kent/



Back to the Dutch coastal town of Katwijk. Could it be "Kaddivik" or "Kadvik"?
That's a short step to "Kaduik", and from there to the OLB "Kadik"...
Isn't it funny that some claimed the Chatti may have been a Phoenician tribe??

("The history of the Chatten or Catti before living in Hesse is quite shrowded. Some claim that they descend from Phœnician traders, and even from the Tribe of Gad.")

In medieval times the name of Cadiz, a city settled by the Phoenicians, was spelled like "Kadix" (Kadiks).

And what name did others claim these Chatti were also known by? Cenni:

"Some have supposed that the Cenni, with whom the Romans were at war under Caracalla, were no others than the Chatti (D. C. 77.14); but this is more than doubtful."

Doubtful? Who cares, right?

The Phoenicians called themselves Knn, or Canan. And then we are back at the Cananefates again, heh.

No saying all this is true, but if I can fabricate all these 'connections', so could others.

Chatti/Catti/Cenni/Cananefates/Knn-Canan/Phoenicians/Katwijk/Kadvik/Kaduik/Kadik/Cadiz and so on



#2441    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

Well that is your opinion Abe ....I think that a lot of them like Waddell and Higgins made the study of these subjects a lifes work , and put in far more time and study into writing a book than people do these days , and they seem to have had much older reference material to draw on than seems to still be in print today. but hey-ho each to his own opinion.

i also like some of Waddells theories that Brutus...BRT un-aspirated ties in with Barat (Barrat is a popular surname in Britain ) and he thinks that the era of the Maha(Great) Barata (BRT..Britons) ......and that the Mahabarata , concerns phoenicians , Hittites , and Britons (Poss Frisians/Phrygians/Brygantes) in India.

Although Waddell never mentions OLB from what i have read , he manages to tie up in his books , the three main areas which the OLB says is part of the history of the Frisians...............and i have mentioned before that Higgins thinks the people of Judah were from Gouda in India , where the first sect of Brahman came from , and that i think Abraham is really a Brahman............however i expect we will both go on searching in our own ways , and lean whichever way we want .


#2442    Abramelin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

You know there is an entire website dedicated to this topic. NO-ID-EA?

http://www.britam.org/


#2443    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

No i did not , but thanks .. ... or is that your way of telling me to disappear as well ???.......... maybe i am too touchy , but dont upset too many people Abe .... i remember

a couple of pages ago when Otharus left you were not happy with the thought that you were the only one left posting on this really interesting thread !! i am glad it did

not work out that way .


#2444    Abramelin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:17 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 06 February 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

No i did not , but thanks .. ... or is that your way of telling me to disappear as well ???.......... maybe i am too touchy , but dont upset too many people Abe .... i remember

a couple of pages ago when Otharus left you were not happy with the thought that you were the only one left posting on this really interesting thread !! i am glad it did

not work out that way .

I just thought you might like the site for it discusses what you are interested in.

But about being touchy....if a certain someone had stood before me an hour or so ago, I may have felt the need to 'correct' him in a different way than I did just now...


#2445    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

OK, well we might have to agree to disagree on Kalta. I find the simplest things are often the answer.
kalterìe, an actual Old Frisian word, meaning chatter, which you do with a nimble tongue, also saying unclear words in the process sounds good and logical to me.

In an mmm bop it's gone...




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