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City of Houston demands pastors


Jeremiah65

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The city of Houston has issued subpoenas demanding a group of pastors turn over any sermons dealing with homosexuality, gender identity or Annise Parker, the city’s first openly lesbian mayor. And those ministers who fail to comply could be held in contempt of court.

“The city’s subpoena of sermons and other pastoral communications is both needless and unprecedented,” Alliance Defending Freedom attorney Christina Holcomb said in a statement. “The city council and its attorneys are engaging in an inquisition designed to stifle any critique of its actions.”

ADF, a nationally-known law firm specializing in religious liberty cases, is representing five Houston pastors. They filed a motion in Harris County courtto stop the subpoenas arguing they are “overbroad, unduly burdensome, harassing, and vexatious.”

“Political and social commentary is not a crime,” Holcomb said. “It is protected by the First Amendment.”

The subpoenas are just the latest twist in an ongoing saga over the Houston’s new non-discrimination ordinance. The law, among other things, would allow men to use the ladies room and vice versa. The city council approved the law in June.

Read the rest here:

http://www.foxnews.c...n-over-sermons/

Now....I am no fan of Fox News....and my personal philosophy of freedom says you can marry whoever you want...you can marry you're mailbox....I do not care...but that is a totally different conversation...

BUT....this is going too far and should be used to make a lot of big noise with. I mean a lot of noise. The little jabs like this that come along to Bill of rights need to be made into very big deals...or...they will quietly be slipped away...

Freedom of speech

Freedom of religion

Separation of Church and State...

The Gay Mayor might not like what a preacher has to say but I will defend his/her right to say it as a basic right (speech) and as a matter of his faith(religion).

Concerned.jpg

Edited by Jeremiah65
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That is so ludicrous it sounds made up!

It sounds like public pressure was put on this city council, and they responded by ignoring it....

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Wow. Unbelievable. This Mayor needs to back off. The government can't determine what is or is not appropriate content for a religious sermon. This is very dangerous territory.

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I'm wondering about the genderless bathrooms and showers and changing areas. One quote I read from a liberal viewpoint stated all women's bathrooms showers and lockers are to be open to all dressed in female attire. What is female attire and how do you define it? How do you check for it? It sounds like it would amount to some kind of ambiguous stereotyping. I know this is in place already, and when it comes to employees that is one thing. But as far the general public it seems to me if businesses are to offer public genderless facilities that is fine, but maybe not at the exclusion of gendered ones?

Imo, if religious leaders want to preach and promote against homosexuality to their congregations they should have no problems reproducing their opinions in public. If they really believe what they preach and fear their god not man which they also preach. As far as prosecution for what they say, though? I guess that depends on what exactly they are telling their congregations.

Edited by QuiteContrary
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One quote I read from a liberal viewpoint stated all women's bathrooms showers and lockers are to be open to all dressed in female attire. What is female attire and how do you define it?

By those definitions I could throw on a sundress over some boxers and hang out in a bathroom stall of a Women's room...

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By those definitions I could throw on a sundress over some boxers and hang out in a bathroom stall of a Women's room...

But that's just it. You could wear jeans and a t-shirt too and be in female attire. Heck, even boxers and a tank top. So what is not female attire is my question?

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The Houston City Council seems to have entered into some bizarro world of PC gone mad. What is with this gay Mayor? Apparently there is little enough bigotry and bias that she was happily elected by her constituents yet she feels a need to address some "vendetta" against gays? I don't get it ... why can't she just do the job she was elected to do, clearly the laws in place when she was elected were not holding her and therefore any other person back.

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All city limits should be declared a nudist only zone ~

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Well, that is interesting. They were ordered to turn over the sermons AFTER they sued the city about the law. Seems like much less of a story...evidence gathering...

Oh, well the trampling of their first amendment rights is ok then. I mean they did sue over a ridiculas law. :td:

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Well, that is interesting. They were ordered to turn over the sermons AFTER they sued the city about the law. Seems like much less of a story...evidence gathering...

Then why not simply make a request? No, legally demanding the contents of a religious sermon should be out of bounds. In fact this law is an affront to freedom, period. If it stays on the books then Texans aren't who I've always considered them to be anymore.
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Well, that is interesting. They were ordered to turn over the sermons AFTER they sued the city about the law. Seems like much less of a story...evidence gathering...

How does "AFTER" justify issuing subpoenas for sermons? They already know they are against the ordinance so what do they hope to gain? It's bullying and intimidation plain and simple.

Are there really enough trans-genders to justify this ordinance I wonder? If there are really that many wouldn't gyms offer these facilities to attract that dollar? This is just PC gone mad and I seriously doubt the city attorney had cause to suspect the petitions. I'm pretty liberal when it comes to these issues and I would have signed the petition. I wouldn't have a problem with a tranny changing for a workout in the same locker room as me but I know my females friends would hate it.

Ahead creep factor 7 Mr.Sulu.

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You see....my views and problems with this was far less about the specific affront and more about the basic bullying and stepping around a first amendment protection.

The city is bullying...plain and simple. We can debate the "goodness or badness" about the ordinance, but the city has stepped on a protected right...actually 2 of them.

I get upset when I see people scream for acceptance and tolerance and yet offer none i return. The LGBT community demands tolerance and I am totally tolerant of them...yet...they offer no tolerance back to anyone that disagrees with them. This...to my small little IQ...is hypocrisy of the finest sorts and I do not like it.

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If the pastors, preachers, rabbis, immans and priests really want to fight this, the thing to do is to dutifully line up outside the mayor's office door on Monday morning,

sermon's in hand... For her to approve/edit them... Then come back Tuesday with "corrected drafts"... and do so for every day of the week... There are over 3,500

churches in the Houston area.... Swamp the mayor with compliance....

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According to what I have read on this matter, the sermons subpoenaed are thought to have involved political themes - and so are not covered under "freedom of speech". Furthermore, tax-exempt religious institutions are forbidden under law to involve themselves in partisan politicking.

So, I would suggest the City has justifiable cause to subpoena the sermons.

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According to what I have read on this matter, the sermons subpoenaed are thought to have involved political themes - and so are not covered under "freedom of speech". Furthermore, tax-exempt religious institutions are forbidden under law to involve themselves in partisan politicking.

So, I would suggest the City has justifiable cause to subpoena the sermons.

b.s.

please show us where in first amendment it says or even implys that political themes - not covered under "freedom of speech".

Edited by aztek
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The city of Houston has issued subpoenas demanding a group of pastors turn over any sermons dealing with homosexuality, gender identity or Annise Parker, the city’s first openly lesbian mayor. And those ministers who fail to comply could be held in contempt of court.

“The city’s subpoena of sermons and other pastoral communications is both needless and unprecedented,” Alliance Defending Freedom attorney Christina Holcomb said in a statement. “The city council and its attorneys are engaging in an inquisition designed to stifle any critique of its actions.”

ADF, a nationally-known law firm specializing in religious liberty cases, is representing five Houston pastors. They filed a motion in Harris County courtto stop the subpoenas arguing they are “overbroad, unduly burdensome, harassing, and vexatious.”

“Political and social commentary is not a crime,” Holcomb said. “It is protected by the First Amendment.”

The subpoenas are just the latest twist in an ongoing saga over the Houston’s new non-discrimination ordinance. The law, among other things, would allow men to use the ladies room and vice versa. The city council approved the law in June.

Read the rest here:

http://www.foxnews.c...n-over-sermons/

Now....I am no fan of Fox News....and my personal philosophy of freedom says you can marry whoever you want...you can marry you're mailbox....I do not care...but that is a totally different conversation...

BUT....this is going too far and should be used to make a lot of big noise with. I mean a lot of noise. The little jabs like this that come along to Bill of rights need to be made into very big deals...or...they will quietly be slipped away...

Freedom of speech

Freedom of religion

Separation of Church and State...

The Gay Mayor might not like what a preacher has to say but I will defend his/her right to say it as a basic right (speech) and as a matter of his faith(religion).

Concerned.jpg

I didn't see this and made a thread about it too, so I'd thought I'd share my thoughts about this too, living here. Now they've granted this extra right, some creeper can see me and throw on some lipstick and follow me into a restroom and lurk around in there and if I feel threatened and report it to security, he can say he has gender identity issues and sue if they make him leave. That takes away from my rights to grant this. I'm all for gay marriage and everything, but this opens doors for risk to women and children to get trapped in confined spaces with someone and I just don't like this idea at all. That they used the pulpit to get people to sign petitions, they might could have some grounds to say they were doing political activities in church and they aren't supposed to do that, campaign for people, organize against policies and such. But a lot of people, nothing to do with religious grounds, typically being all for gay rights, marriage aren't fans of this, like myself.

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Furthermore, tax-exempt religious institutions are forbidden under law to involve themselves in partisan politicking.

Right, I think that might be where they have them.

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By those definitions I could throw on a sundress over some boxers and hang out in a bathroom stall of a Women's room...

What's considered women's clothing exactly? Girls go around in shorts and t-shirts all day here, but yes, that's the creepy thing about this, you could do that.

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The Houston City Council seems to have entered into some bizarro world of PC gone mad. What is with this gay Mayor? Apparently there is little enough bigotry and bias that she was happily elected by her constituents yet she feels a need to address some "vendetta" against gays? I don't get it ... why can't she just do the job she was elected to do, clearly the laws in place when she was elected were not holding her and therefore any other person back.

Yeah you should see the state of the roads, a lot more she could be focusing on. They call her Mayor Pantsuit, lol.

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Right, I think that might be where they have them.

Only if they are spending money to further a political agenda. Just talking about it from a moralistic point of view is not "involving a religious group in politics"
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Only if they are spending money to further a political agenda. Just talking about it from a moralistic point of view is not "involving a religious group in politics"

Here check this out:

http://en.wikipedia....hnson_Amendment

Johnson Amendment

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Johnson Amendment refers to a change in the U.S. tax code made in 1954 which prohibited tax-exempt organizations from endorsing or opposing political candidates.

Contents

Background

Proposed by then-Senator Lyndon B. Johnson, the amendment affects churches and other nonprofit organizations with 501© tax exemptions.[1] In recent years the Alliance Defending Freedom has attempted to challenge the Johnson Amendment through the Pulpit Freedom Initiative, which urges church pastors to violate the statute in protest. The ADF contends that the amendment violates First Amendment rights.[2]

501© prohibition

Organizations recognized under Section 501©(3) of the U.S. tax code are subject to limits or absolute prohibitions on engaging in political activities and risk loss of status as tax exempt status if violated.[3] Specifically, they are prohibited from conducting political campaign activities to intervene in elections to public office.[4][5]

But yeah what you said discussing it from a moral standpoint, they couldn't get in trouble maybe, but they allegedly were urging them to oppose the ordinance and getting signatures on petitions, definite political activity there. I assume that's why they're subpoening the records to see what they said exactly if it fell under those lines, but honestly how accurate could those be or not edited? It's church, they don't have to document everything said in services. They could easily omit some of those political comments. It's sort of a bunch of BS, the whole thing.

Edited by ChloeB
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BUT.....the Nanny state had to step in!....(sarcasm)

LGBT has been a topic of religion far longer than any form of GOV in the USA has had authority...

Even ignoring Christianity, Judaism forbid it in Leviticus...

Let's not forget it was also illegal in ancient Greece for a time...why? Had nothing to do with Zeus or the gods of olympus....it was because Greece needed soldiers and workers for the fields and same sex relationships do not produce offspring...therefore...it was made illegal. It still happened but the end around (pun intended) was to have children...then the State really didn't care what you did.

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