61 replies to this topic

[Soul Kitchen]

Cynical Sounds, on 24 May 2011 - 07:22 AM, said:

not as far as I know? I thought the only "dragons" in the bible were the leviathan and the pole serpent

also I'm well in the they didn't exist camp

Note the winky face.
You see, there's this fellow named the Draconic Chronicler that got banned a while ago...

[DieChecker]

Soul Kitchen, on 24 May 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

Note the winky face.
You see, there's this fellow named the Draconic Chronicler that got banned a while ago...

Banned, but not forgotten. Very interesting theory, if pushed a little to hard. Said he was coming out with a book on Dragons in Christianity in 2006, which no one has seen yet.

[Skeptic Chicken]

If electric eels exist, then why the heck not dragons? They could function like an eel. As they fly, walk, run, and whatnot, they create static electricity, then they spark the electricity in their mouths and ignite their breath fueled by their gas glands. Thats my thought anyways.

[Agent. Mulder]

King Fluffs, on 24 May 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

This is a rather difficult topic to discuss due to the lack of evidence on both sides.

All i can say is, possibly.
All races across the world, many thousands of years ago, all reported some strange, flying reptilian creature.
From what ive heard, when the first accounts came into place there was no way these people could have contacted each other and simply made this beast up.

Id love it if they were real though...

Both sides? No. Just one side.

"Possibly" wouldnt be the best choice of words here.
I dont believe every race for the last few thousand years has had strange, flying, reptilian creatures in their stories (unless you have info on that).
Its likely these were made up, or at least concocted after seeing large reptiles, dino bones, etc.

[Agent. Mulder]

Skeptic Chicken, on 25 May 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

If electric eels exist, then why the heck not dragons? They could function like an eel. As they fly, walk, run, and whatnot, they create static electricity, then they spark the electricity in their mouths and ignite their breath fueled by their gas glands. Thats my thought anyways.

Thats one heck of a stretch when comparing it to the electric eel.

Id settle for what "reign of fire" did in the movie: two chemicals that ignite when  mixed together, so the dragon shoots both chemicals out at prey, the same way a cobra shoots venom, and it ignites.

[thewatchman7]

Agent. Mulder, on 25 May 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

Thats one heck of a stretch when comparing it to the electric eel.

Id settle for what "reign of fire" did in the movie: two chemicals that ignite when  mixed together, so the dragon shoots both chemicals out at prey, the same way a cobra shoots venom, and it ignites.

its a pretty poor defence mechanism in the fact that if you suffer damage to the "poison" glands your face explodes...

[Agent. Mulder]

thewatchman7, on 25 May 2011 - 02:25 PM, said:

its a pretty poor defence mechanism in the fact that if you suffer damage to the "poison" glands your face explodes...

I forget where exactly the made up gland was. However, i know it was separated by some distance from the other.
Who knows, maybe it has some "immunity" to it. The same way our stomaches developed for certain diets? I dunno.




Ugh. I cant believe im actually arguing for the existence of a dragon right now.

[Emin]

dragonz are real?  

[SlimJim22]

Soul Kitchen, on 24 May 2011 - 04:48 AM, said:

Aren't many Biblical figures actually Dragons, or something...?  

You may be thinking of the Seraphim.

Quote

A seraph (pl. seraphim; Hebrew: שְׂרָפִים śərāfîm, singular שָׂרָף śārāf; Latin: seraphi[m], singular seraph[us]; Greek: σεραφείμ) is a type of celestial being in Judaism and Christianity. Literally "burning ones", the word is normally a synonym for serpents when used in the Hebrew Bible, but they are mentioned in the Book of Isaiah as fiery six-winged beings attending on God. They appear again as celestial beings in an influential Hellenistic work, the Book of Enoch, and a little later in the Book of Revelation. They occupy the fifth of ten ranks of the hierarchy of angels in medieval and modern Judaism, and the highest rank in the Christian angelic hierarchy.

Seraphim, literally "burning ones", is the plural of "seraph", more properly sarap. The word sarap/seraphim appears three times in the Torah (Numbers 21:6-8, Deuteronomy 8:15) and four times in the Book of Isaiah (6:2-6, 14:29, 30:6). In Numbers and Deuteronomy the "seraphim" are serpents – the association of serpents as "burning ones" is possibly due to the burning sensation of the poison.[1] Isaiah also uses the word in close association with words to describes snakes (nahash, the generic word for snakes, in 14:29, and efeh, viper, in 30:6).

Isaiah's vision of seraphim in the First Temple in Jerusalem is the sole instance in the Hebrew Bible of the word being used to describe celestial beings: there the winged "seraphim" attend God and have human attributes:[2] "... I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and His train filled the Hekhal (sanctuary). Above him stood the Seraphim; each had six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew." (Isaiah 6:1–3) In Isaiah's vision the seraphim cry continually to each other, "Holy, holy, holy, is YHWH of hosts: the whole earth is full of His glory" (verses 2-3) before carrying out an act of purification for the prophet (verses 6-7). It is possible that these are winged snake-beings, but given that the word "seraphim" is not attached as an adjective or modifier to other snake-words ("nahash," etc.), as is the case in every other occurrence of the word, it is more probable that they are variants of the "fiery" lesser deities making up God's divine court.[3]

"Seraphim" appear in the 2nd century B.C. Book of Enoch[4] where they are designated as drakones (δράκονες "serpents"), and are mentioned, in conjunction with the cherubim as the heavenly creatures standing nearest to the throne of God. In the late 1st century A.D. Book of Revelation (iv. 4-8) they are described as being forever in God's presence and praising Him constantly: "Day and night with out ceasing they sing: 'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come.'" They appear also in the Christian Gnostic text On the Origin of the World, described as "dragon-shaped angels".[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraph

So this tradition of winged, fiery, serpents was integrated into Christianity of the west and we get stories of St George defeating the dragon and various other myths and legends of the Medieval period. It is more complex than that but I bet the description of the Seraph and dragons became confused over time.

Angels are dragons perhaps. Messiah as saviour is comparable to Nachash or serpent so I do see there been a connection.

[Drakester]

SlimJim22, on 25 May 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

You may be thinking of the Seraphim.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraph

So this tradition of winged, fiery, serpents was integrated into Christianity of the west and we get stories of St George defeating the dragon and various other myths and legends of the Medieval period. It is more complex than that but I bet the description of the Seraph and dragons became confused over time.

Angels are dragons perhaps. Messiah as saviour is comparable to Nachash or serpent so I do see there been a connection.

I think Soul Kitchen was thinking of the dragon that was worshipped as a living god by the Babylonians and that was eventually slain by Daniel. The dragon is never said to be a flying creature, but it could perfectly be a giant snake (python) or a crocodile. Remember that dragon comes from old greek for serpent/snake.

There's also the symbolic dragon that represents the Devil in both Genesis and the Apocalypse- once again, If I well recall, these were said described as serpents, not giant winged creatures. (Although since I'm not Christian I haven´t read the Bible many times...)

[Corp]

Soul Kitchen, on 24 May 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

Note the winky face.
You see, there's this fellow named the Draconic Chronicler that got banned a while ago...

Really he got banned?


Anyway I think the whole 'mistaking dino bones for dragons' is more likely than there being actual dragons flying around.

[Myles]

Skeptic Chicken, on 25 May 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

If electric eels exist, then why the heck not dragons? They could function like an eel. As they fly, walk, run, and whatnot, they create static electricity, then they spark the electricity in their mouths and ignite their breath fueled by their gas glands. Thats my thought anyways.

That's pretty cool.    I like your thinking.  
However I think dragons are completely fiction.   Wings were added because people realized without them, it didn't seem realistic enough for them to fly.   Dino bones and possibly large reptiles were exagerated through the years.  Imagine how a large Komodo would be exagerated through the years.

[UFO_Monster]

I'd love for them to exist.



^Well, except for that one.

[Bracket]

UFO_Monster, on 25 May 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

I'd love for them to exist.



^Well, except for that one.

Why? That's the best one!  

[superdarkyoshi]

Bracket, on 25 May 2011 - 11:38 PM, said:

Why? That's the best one!  

If that existed it would stand no match against modern technology.