44 replies to this topic

[jugoso]

Liquid Gardens, on 11 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Actually you can really argue with that.  Define what 'radically changed' entails.  A few short decades takes us back to the early 80's.  I would argue that there was a much more drastic change in thinking, belief systems, morality and behavior from the 50's compared to the 60's/early 70's than any decade after.  I'm not sure how you differentiate 'mind control' from 'people reaching conclusions that I disagree with', and 'mind control' sounds a little out-there anyway.

I think our definition of "a few" is different. I was referring to the 60´s & 70´s. The 50's may have been the start of this "radical change" but I think it became more widespread in the 60´s. Would you not agree that there has been a dramatic change in morality, belief systems and behaviour since that time? If you don´t understand how mind control works, I suggest watching "Manufacture of Consent" or "Century of Self" (part II if you don´t have time for all) to see how easily we can be manipulated and influenced.

http://www.youtube.c...?v=aIRJ-Xi9JXY.

[Babe Ruth]

jugoso, on 11 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

From Article:

In the United States, the primary evidence for the success of their mind control operation is the fact that the thinking, belief systems, morality, behavior and religious beliefs of the average American have radically changed in just a few short decades. The elites have perfected social engineering to such an extent that they have now indoctrinated several generations of Americans into being anti-Christian, anti-American and Marxist in their belief systems.

Can´t really argue with that.

A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude."
Aldous Huxley

Mission pretty much accomplished.

Roger that!

As Dresden James put it, "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims.  The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

[JGirl]

heavy sigh

[Corp]

jugoso, on 11 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I think our definition of "a few" is different. I was referring to the 60´s & 70´s. The 50's may have been the start of this "radical change" but I think it became more widespread in the 60´s. Would you not agree that there has been a dramatic change in morality, belief systems and behaviour since that time? If you don´t understand how mind control works, I suggest watching "Manufacture of Consent" or "Century of Self" (part II if you don´t have time for all) to see how easily we can be manipulated and influenced.

Changes in society and culture have happened throughout history. Doesn't mean there's any brainwashing or some evil plot involved. It just means society has changed. If it's happening quicker than in the past then that's due to modern technology allowing the free flow of ideas and lively debate between different worldviews.

[Liquid Gardens]

jugoso, on 11 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I think our definition of "a few" is different. I was referring to the 60´s & 70´s. The 50's may have been the start of this "radical change" but I think it became more widespread in the 60´s. Would you not agree that there has been a dramatic change in morality, belief systems and behaviour since that time? If you don´t understand how mind control works, I suggest watching "Manufacture of Consent" or "Century of Self" (part II if you don´t have time for all) to see how easily we can be manipulated and influenced.

Cool, fair enough on the 'few', sounds like we're talking about the same time period then.  But Corp has it right, there have been dramatic changes throughout just the history of the relatively young US.  The 60s were a big change obviously as far as all the qualities you've mentioned, but there are several huge historical changes, and I don't know that the 60s compares as far as overall 'change' to things like the Civil War and the Great Depression.  Since the evidence of mind control being provided was the fact that dramatic changes have happened recently, but there are many other times where dramatic changes have also occurred, it doesn't seem like these 'dramatic changes' are necessarily indicative of mind control then.  Unless the changes from the Civil War, Depression, etc, also were the result of mind control.

I think the definition we actually disagree on is 'mind control'.  I don't consider 'influence' to be mind control, otherwise all advertising is.  I think Manchurian Candidate when I hear 'mind control'; I only watched the video you linked to about Betty Crocker, I didn't watch the others, but I don't consider people who make choices with full consent to be under 'mind control'.

[jugoso]

Corp, on 11 December 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

Changes in society and culture have happened throughout history. Doesn't mean there's any brainwashing or some evil plot involved. It just means society has changed. If it's happening quicker than in the past then that's due to modern technology allowing the free flow of ideas and lively debate between different worldviews.

Brainwashing may be a little strong but there is certainly a lot of manipulation that occurs that is intentional. Public opinion, values and morality can be subtly modified over a long period of time and I believe this to be happening. I don´t agree with the author of the OP and I´m not saying there is an evil plot run by Satanists. However those that control the means of manipulation seem to have perfected the technique of manipulation and it seems their interests are self-serving and based on greed and power. I think a great example of how public opinion can be overtly changed is the US opinion about going to war with Kuwait. Nobody gave a sh** until the PR firms got involved and invented the “incubator story” . This is a good read if you have a few minutes

http://ics-www.leeds...der=30&paper=71

I think the example I gave in my previous post shows quite clearly how this can happen on an unconscious level.

Liquid Gardens, on 12 December 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

Cool, fair enough on the 'few', sounds like we're talking about the same time period then.  But Corp has it right, there have been dramatic changes throughout just the history of the relatively young US.  The 60s were a big change obviously as far as all the qualities you've mentioned, but there are several huge historical changes, and I don't know that the 60s compares as far as overall 'change' to things like the Civil War and the Great Depression.  Since the evidence of mind control being provided was the fact that dramatic changes have happened recently, but there are many other times where dramatic changes have also occurred, it doesn't seem like these 'dramatic changes' are necessarily indicative of mind control then.  Unless the changes from the Civil War, Depression, etc, also were the result of mind control.

I think the definition we actually disagree on is 'mind control'.  I don't consider 'influence' to be mind control, otherwise all advertising is.  I think Manchurian Candidate when I hear 'mind control'; I only watched the video you linked to about Betty Crocker, I didn't watch the others, but I don't consider people who make choices with full consent to be under 'mind control'.

I think you are right that we disagree on our definition of mind control. I think that if people are using proven techniques to influence and manipulate you to think or act a certain way then that is a form of mind-control.

[Liquid Gardens]

Quote

I think you are right that we disagree on our definition of mind control. I think that if people are using proven techniques to influence and manipulate you to think or act a certain way then that is a form of mind-control.

Yes, I agree, we are using very different definitions.  Advertising, parenting, most education all seem to fit your definition, and I guess I'm not seeing the 'control' part in any of that.  But English is nothing if not flexible, thanks for the clarification!

[Rlyeh]

jugoso, on 11 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

From Article:

In the United States, the primary evidence for the success of their mind control operation is the fact that the thinking, belief systems, morality, behavior and religious beliefs of the average American have radically changed in just a few short decades. The elites have perfected social engineering to such an extent that they have now indoctrinated several generations of Americans into being anti-Christian, anti-American and Marxist in their belief systems.

Can´t really argue with that.

Less Christians = mind control.

jugoso, on 12 December 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

I think you are right that we disagree on our definition of mind control. I think that if people are using proven techniques to influence and manipulate you to think or act a certain way then that is a form of mind-control.

Like education.

[Corp]

jugoso, on 12 December 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

I think you are right that we disagree on our definition of mind control. I think that if people are using proven techniques to influence and manipulate you to think or act a certain way then that is a form of mind-control.

Using that definition every single people throughout history has been subject to mind-control. After all raising children can be seen as mind control. So I think it's a bit too broad for this situation.

[jugoso]

Liquid Gardens, on 12 December 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

Yes, I agree, we are using very different definitions.  Advertising, parenting, most education all seem to fit your definition, and I guess I'm not seeing the 'control' part in any of that.  But English is nothing if not flexible, thanks for the clarification!

Corp, on 12 December 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Using that definition every single people throughout history has been subject to mind-control. After all raising children can be seen as mind control. So I think it's a bit too broad for this situation.

Yes, I agree although not to the same extent that we are subjected to them over the last few decades.
I can´t think of any greater influence on the development of a young mind than their parents. Children are little sponges who lack the ability to think critically. Therefore they inevitably  internalize their parents belief system.  Jehovah Witness parents will raise kids with the same values and belief system. They may reject them later on in life but they still carry them around. If that´s not control, then I don´t know what is.
The education system is another way that children internalize the values and beliefs of their society and much of this happens before they have the ability to think critically. I agree with Noam on this one that the education system is one of indoctrination of the young.



With respect to the media, there is no question in my mind that it is controlled and the parameters for discussion and new ideas are fairly well defined. Mainstream media doesn´t provide much air time for those who think in radically different ways. Neither does our political system for that matter. If you are trying to convince me that the US is a democracy because they have a choice between two candidates, I would reply that the similarities between the two far outweigh the differences and they both serve the same master.

As far as advertising goes, we have been studied to such an extent that they know exactly what note to hit to get the desired response they want. And what they want is for you to be a constant good little consumer. Again, I will suggest watching this clip if you have the time



The programme explores how those in power in post-war America used Freud's ideas about the unconscious mind to try and control the masses

[Liquid Gardens]

jugoso, on 12 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Yes, I agree although not to the same extent that we are subjected to them over the last few decades.

This may be true to the extent that obviously technology has drastically increased and improved communication of ideas.  I think maybe where I disagree with you on the 'last few decades' point is that I think you are also saying that this change has been a bad thing, whereas I see lots of things that have changed that are very good also.

Quote

I can´t think of any greater influence on the development of a young mind than their parents. Children are little sponges who lack the ability to think critically. Therefore they inevitably  internalize their parents belief system.  Jehovah Witness parents will raise kids with the same values and belief system. They may reject them later on in life but they still carry them around. If that´s not control, then I don´t know what is.

I really dont call that control mainly because of the reason you stated, they 'may reject them later'.  There doesn't seem to be any difference using your definitions between 'control' and 'learning'.  Do you stop at red lights only because you have been controlled?  Even though you could drive right through it, as many people unfortunately do?  And I disagree, children except maybe toddlers can be very pointedly critical; how many kids figure out all on their own that there isn't really a Santa?

Quote

The education system is another way that children internalize the values and beliefs of their society and much of this happens before they have the ability to think critically. I agree with Noam on this one that the education system is one of indoctrination of the young.

I think Noam is painting with way too wide of a brush.  I'm unclear whether he's specifically referring to the university faculty or the students or the curriculum with his statements about 'being taught not to question', but I do know that that was not at all the experience I had at school.  I'm sure in some senses he has a point and I'm sure there are examples, but I don't know how prevalent they are.

Quote

If you are trying to convince me that the US is a democracy because they have a choice between two candidates, I would reply that the similarities between the two far outweigh the differences and they both serve the same master.

I think we're a democracy partly because we do not have any unelected leaders, and no monarchy and no dictator.  The similarities may outweigh the differences because most voters support the position they are similar on.

Quote

As far as advertising goes, we have been studied to such an extent that they know exactly what note to hit to get the desired response they want. And what they want is for you to be a constant good little consumer. Again, I will suggest watching this clip if you have the time

It's amazing then how many businesses fail if advertising is truly this powerful.  Of course what they want is for you to be a constant good little consumer; you've pretty much defined the objective for every business that has ever been.  If advertisers are really exerting this control, why do I drink Coke instead of Pepsi?  I've watched endless Pepsi commercials, yet I haven't had one in over a decade.  It's almost like I'm making an educated choice as to what to drink based on the information I've been provided, including yes advertising, and I don't know how a real choice can simultaneously be controlled (assuming we have free will, which if we don't annihilates this whole conversation anyway).

Let me ask, you are also controlled for all the same reasons, no?  Exactly what part of your thoughts or actions or anything are not controlled then, and why?  I'm not seeing any boundary yet as to what constitutes 'mind control'.

Quote

The programme explores how those in power in post-war America used Freud's ideas about the unconscious mind to try and control the masses

I really think the more accurate and precise word for this is 'influence', not 'control'.

[Etu Malku]

McGuire is a simpleton radio host with a wild imagination who read one too many Dan Brown Illuminati conspiracy books . . . LOL!
Nope, no Elite Satanic/Luciferian Club ruling the world!

Not yet anyway

[GhastLyght1]

Etu Malku, on 13 December 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

Nope, no Elite Satanic/Luciferian Club ruling the world!

Not yet anyway

Yep and these guys are just a bunch of god fearing christians

[Likely Guy]

I'm just glad that I read that article online instead of in print. It wouldn't have been worth the pulp to publish it.

That was just one man's diatribe to sell his books and DVD's.

[Etu Malku]

GhastLyght1, on 13 December 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Yep and these guys are just a bunch of god fearing christians

LMAO . . . none of those dimwits would even know the difference between an invocation and an evocation . . . yeah steeped heavily in the occult!