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why did satan get kicked out of heaven


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#736    Jor-el

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:13 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 08 July 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

You can't believe someone would help someone else just build their own ego?

If Jesus had the ego you describe he would be taking credit for everything he did... I mean that is an easy enough thing. One doesn't change ones personality in one instance and be another in a different instance, why would this be any different from any other the other thousands of people, men and women, he helped?

In effect it isn't, he doesn't glorify himself once throughout the whole of the New testament, he always glorifies God as the author and promoter of everything he does... that to me is not building ones own ego... it is in fact the exact opposite.

You glorify yourself, your own works, your successes and it is all about you... that is building your own ego. That in itself demonstrates the falsehood of your affirmation.

Edited by Jor-el, 08 July 2013 - 09:14 PM.

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#737    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:16 PM

View PostJor-el, on 08 July 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

You glorify yourself, your own works, your successes and it is all about you... that is building your own ego. That in itself demonstrates the falsehood of your affirmation.

Actually, I don't.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
http://www.astrology...ead.php?t=81593
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#738    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:20 PM

View PostJor-el, on 08 July 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

As if non-believers who are actually people who "don't believe" are going to be frightened by something they.... don't believe... that makes sense (not) :no:

I don't think most believers understand that though, you understand.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
http://www.astrology...ead.php?t=81593
http://www.astrology...&pictureid=6193

#739    Jor-el

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 08 July 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Actually, I don't.

I wasn't talking about you... that is the normal character of a person who builds his own ego... psych 101

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#740    Jor-el

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:41 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 08 July 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

I don't think most believers understand that though, you understand.

They do, the problem is that unbelievers are caught in conversations not meant for them... between believers we may talk of unbelievers going to hell, but to actually use that argument with an unbeliever is unutterably stupid...

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#741    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:19 PM

View PostJor-el, on 08 July 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

I wasn't talking about you... that is the normal character of a person who builds his own ego... psych 101

Ah, but your use of the word "you/your" implies direction, you should have just used a dictionary definition.

Do you think the rest of the believers think it was a general statement towards atheists, or a direct comment towards me?

Edited by HavocWing, 08 July 2013 - 11:23 PM.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
http://www.astrology...ead.php?t=81593
http://www.astrology...&pictureid=6193

#742    danielost

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:20 PM

I have said this several times.
If your doing good to go to heaven, your doing it for the wrong reason.  You should do good because it is the right thing todo, not expect a reward for it.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#743    JMPD1

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:25 PM

Exactly.  Doing good IS the right thing to do.  Seeking reward, glory, or praise for the deed lessens the act itself.

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#744    Sherapy

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:06 AM

View PostJor-el, on 08 July 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

If Jesus had the ego you describe he would be taking credit for everything he did... I mean that is an easy enough thing. One doesn't change ones personality in one instance and be another in a different instance, why would this be any different from any other the other thousands of people, men and women, he helped?

In effect it isn't, he doesn't glorify himself once throughout the whole of the New testament, he always glorifies God as the author and promoter of everything he does... that to me is not building ones own ego... it is in fact the exact opposite.

You glorify yourself, your own works, your successes and it is all about you... that is building your own ego. That in itself demonstrates the falsehood of your affirmation.

Hmm, how is having a hardy/healthy ego a sinful thing, Jor el?


#745    and then

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:38 AM

View PostJ. K., on 23 May 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

This is one explanation from Isaiah 14.  He sought to be equal with God.  "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
This was my understanding as well.  Satan grew prideful and imagined himself as being like God.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#746    euroninja

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:29 AM

View Postand then, on 09 July 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

This was my understanding as well.  Satan grew prideful and imagined himself as being like God.
It has nothing to do with a Lucifer character. Read the chapter. Jorel made a point of this earlier on...................................................................

Does liking a homosexual man make me gay? I love my gay brother. I must be gay at heart. Hooray for happy people!

#747    euroninja

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:33 AM

View PostJMPD1, on 08 July 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Exactly.  Doing good IS the right thing to do.  Seeking reward, glory, or praise for the deed lessens the act itself.
How do you know you're doing good? Christians believe god is the only one whose good. Its like the blind leading the blind know what i mean..............................

Does liking a homosexual man make me gay? I love my gay brother. I must be gay at heart. Hooray for happy people!

#748    JMPD1

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:05 AM

Its OK euroninja, I'm not Christian, I believe that we all have a moral compass;  some of us just refuse to follow the path it leads us on.

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#749    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostReann, on 08 July 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I  think that all religions lead to the same purpose, like branches of the same tree, you know? all waters meet...I think that , Christ message is awesome and I love him , but I think that the church has stolen so much and has conformed society to think that there way is the only way and when i consider Christ message it was always about doing what he did within, and i see so much of the within in other cultures of religion , and  in my mind and heart , it's that which is done from   within that the creator knows us all...I don't even know a name of the creator just that what is done from love matters most and that is how i believe in God...It's like words and names don't even matter , it's what's within that counts most of all....and makes all the difference in the world...
Hi Reann,

Here's a fascinating video I found on Youtube that you may want to see since you're interested in cultural branches and Christian diversity:  



God bless.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist )    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008232820397

According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
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#750    markprice

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostJor-el, on 08 July 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Grammatically feminine is not the same as actually female.

In Portuguese and many other languages we have the same type of grammatical structure...

A cup is masculine, a teacup is feminine, the saucer though is masculine.

Wisdom is feminine, a boat is masculine and a ship is masculine... get the idea... every single noun has a masculine or feminine attachment that is grammatically necessary. Hebrew is exactly the same way.

There is no way that you can make it stick that the Holy Spirit is a feminine attribute when the nature of the language itself attributes masculine and feminine articles to every single object and thought in the vocabulary of the language... unlike English.


You are just doing back-flips to deny the obvious. They used feminine words to describe a feminine aspect. Any child confronted by the holy spirit would sense it to have a feminine quality so the authors of the bible presented it in that way for that exact reason.


Quote

The bible is a historical recounting of the history of mankind, it supersedes philosophies that are only a few thousand years old.

If that were true I would have to agree with you but all this precedes ancient Egypt/Moses/etc. by thousands of years [see India].

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