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911 inside job - for what?


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#2701    Babe Ruth

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:58 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 03 July 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

But what exactly is accomplished by affixing the label, 'known liar', to 'the government'?  Let's say that 50-50 does justify someone or something in this case being called a 'known liar', that seems reasonable to me; thus, what?  By the exact same reasoning, the government is also a known truth-teller.  All it seems to accomplish is to counter those who say that the government never lies thus we should accept everything they say as the truth; I'm not really aware of that many people here making that argument.

Not one of your more thought-provoking questions LG.

What is accomplished by affixing the label is that one would not attribute much value, much weight, to the statements of known liars.

In my world, giving much weight to the statements of known liars is an irrational act.  Only crazy people, or gullible as hell, believe the statements of known liars.

The more skeptical amongst us are very skeptical of the statements of known liars.


#2702    skyeagle409

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:07 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 03 July 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

What is accomplished by affixing the label is that one would not attribute much value, much weight, to the statements of known liars.

Such as Steven Jones, Richard Gage and those 911 CT websites.

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#2703    acidhead

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:23 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 03 July 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Of course it's true. I guess you missed the videos I have posted, so here is one of them for your review.



Posted Image

Now, what was that you were saying about, "wasn't true?"



I mis-read your sentence.  I was thinking tall steel structures with central columns like the twin towers.

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#2704    Yamato

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:36 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 03 July 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

There is no 911 government cover-up.

The fact that countries around the world had warned the United States that Muslim terrorist, not the United States government, planned to use airliners to kill thousands of people and even the  Philippine government revealed to the United States in 1995  that it was targeted by terrorist, and among those named was none other than Ramzi Yousef, the terrorist who bombed WTC1 in 1993 and nephew of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, 911 attack mastermind who has now admitted to his role in planning the 911 attack. In addition, it was revealed that CIA headquarters was also targeted for an attack, and of course, we cannot forget the terrorist that tried to fly a hijacked airliner into the Eiffel Tower in France.

Please post evidence of a government 911 cover-up, but I might add that the way a building falls is not evidence of explosives because it has been shown that a tall building can collapse in the same manner as the WTC buildings without the use of explosives, which of course, is the "Pull" technique using cables and the Verinage demolition method.
I think they announced that infamous morning memo spelling out in excruciating detail how Al Qaeda was planning on using aircraft to target buildings in New York city days before the attacks was just part of the global ruse to hide the inside job bit.

But you're wrong about one thing.  There is a huge 9/11 government cover up.  It's the blatantly obvious suppression of the motivation for this terrorist attack.   Of course truthers play into the government's hands perfectly because with them, you can't even get to the terrorists, much less the motivation.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#2705    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:29 AM

View PostYamato, on 04 July 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

I think they announced that infamous morning memo spelling out in excruciating detail how Al Qaeda was planning on using aircraft to target buildings in New York city days before the attacks was just part of the global ruse to hide the inside job bit.

But you're wrong about one thing.  There is a huge 9/11 government cover up.  It's the blatantly obvious suppression of the motivation for this terrorist attack.   Of course truthers play into the government's hands perfectly because with them, you can't even get to the terrorists, much less the motivation.

Plans to attack the United States began during the 1990s. For an example, Osama bin Laden became furious that U.S. troops were allowed to operate from Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War and Muslims were angry at the United States for supporting Israel.

In 1995, a plot was uncovered in the Philippines where it was revealed that terrorist planned to attack the United States and kill thousands of innocent people using airliners, which was known at the 'Bojinka Plot. The plot was revealed when terrorist accident started a fire in their apartment in Manila. Documents revealed that they planned to blow up a number of airliners and CIA headquarters was also targeted.The money that funded the Bojinka Plot came from Osama bin Laden and Hambali, and from front organizations operated by Mohammed Jamal Khalifa, bin Laden's brother-in-law.

Here's more on the Bojinka Plot.

Quote


The Bojinka Plot

Ramzi Yousef arrived in Manila along with other "Arab Afghans" that were making cells in Manila, he started to work on making bombs. Yousef had shown up in Singapore with Shah earlier in fall 1994. The two got their Philippine visas in Singapore.


The Afghan Arabs are not to be confused with theAfghan Mujahideen. Osama bin Laden belonged to the Afghan Arab group and the Afghan Mujahideen was supported by the CIA. All too often I read where 911 conspiracy groups confuse the two groups and thinking  they were one of the same, which they were not. The Afghan Arabs were foreigners and were supported by Pakistan.

Continue:

Quote

He left Manila for several days, but was met by Islamist emissaries upon his return to Metro Manila. They asked him to attack United States President Bill Clinton, who was due to arrive in the Philippines on November 12, 1994 as part of a five-day tour of Asia. Yousef thought of several ways to kill the president, including placing nuclear bombs on Clinton's motorcade route, firing a Stinger missile at Air Force One or the presidential limousine, launching theater ballistic missiles at Manila and or killing him with phosgene, a chemical weapon. He abandoned the idea, as it would be too difficult to kill the President. However, he incorporated his plan to kill the Pope into the Bojinka plot.

In 1994, Yousef and Khalid Sheik Mohammed started testing airport security. Yousef booked a flight between Kai Tak International Airport in Hong Kong and Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport near Taipei. Mohammed booked a flight between Ninoy Aquino International Airport near Manila and Kimpo International Airport near Seoul. The two had already converted fourteen bottles of contact lens solution into bottles containing nitroglycerin, which was readily available in the Philippines. Yousef had taped to the arch of his foot a metal rod, which would serve as a detonator. The two wore jewelry and clothing with metal to confuse airport security. To support their claim that they were meeting women, they packed condoms in their bags
.
On December 8, Yousef moved into the Doña Josefa Apartments under the alias "Najy Awaita Haddad" and purported himself to be a Moroccan. Edith Guerrera, the manager, laughed with the receptionist after the two men asked for new registration forms. "Perhaps they have forgotten their names", she said as the first ones were torn up. Yousef had accidentally put his "real name" on the first form. He did not want to get discovered too early.

Yousef had booked Room 603 in advance. He had made an Php 80,000 (Philippine peso) deposit, and added Php 40,000 more up front before taking the elevator to Room 603]
A conspirator named Abdul Hakim Murad came to Manila with Yousef and stayed at the same apartment. The apartments are located in the Malate district, 200 meters away from the embassy of the Holy See in the Philippines, and 500 meters down the street from Manila Police Station No. 9 on Quirino Avenue. One of the windows of Room 603 looks down on the path that the Papal motorcade was to take.

People were suspicious of the men in Room 603. The men renting the apartment were very secretive. According to Guerrera, "They gave me the impression that they were here to study", said Mrs. Guerrera. "They looked like students. They double locked the door when they were inside or out. They didn't ask the room boy to clear up the room." The men, who had chemical burns on their hands, were carrying boxes and never hired other people to carry them up. The boxes contained chemicals bought from suppliers in Manila and Quezon City in Metro Manila. Yousef would use these to make his bombs.

Mohammed purported himself to be a Saudi or Qatari plywood exporter named "Abdul Majid." Yousef and Mohammed had already started planning Operation Bojinka. According to Abdul Hakim Murad, Yousef got an idea for crashing a plane into the CIA from Murad while at the apartments. According to Murad, Yousef replied, "OK, we will think about it", before heading off with Mohammed to Puerto Galera for scuba diving.

Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Sheik Mohammed are related. Ramzi Yousef was involved in the bombing of WTC1 in 1993 and Khalid Sheik Mohammed has now admitted to his role as masterminid of the 911 attack.

Continue:

Quote

Financing

The money that funded the Bojinka Plot came from Osama bin Laden and Hambali, and from front organizations operated by Mohammed Jamal Khalifa, bin Laden's brother-in-law.

Test bombs: mall, theater, 747 airliner

Yousef's first operational test of his bomb was inside a mall in Cebu City. The bomb detonated several hours after he put it in a generator room. It caused minor damage, but it proved to Yousef that his bomb was workable. On December 1, Shah placed a bomb under a seat in the Greenbelt Theatre in Manila to test what would happen if a bomb exploded under an airline seat. The bomb went off, injuring several patrons

On December 11, 1994, Yousef built another bomb, which had one tenth of the power that his final bombs were planned to have, in the lavatory of an aircraft. He left it inside the life jacket under his seat (26 K) and got off the plane when it arrived in Cebu. Yousef had boarded the flight under the assumed name of Arnaldo Forlani, using a false Italian passport. The aircraft was Philippine Airlines Flight 434 on a Manila to Narita route, stopping partway at Cebu. Yousef had set the timer for four hours after he got off the aircraft. The bomb exploded while the aircraft was over Japan's Minamidaitō Island, part of Okinawa Prefecture. A Japanese businessman named Haruki Ikegami occupying the seat was killed and an additional 10 passengers were injured. The flight was carrying 273 passengers in total.

The next plan would have involved at least five terrorists, including Yousef, Shah, Murad and two more unknown operatives. Beginning on January 21, 1995, and ending on January 22, 1995, they would have placed bombs on 11 United States-bound airliners which had stopovers scattered throughout East Asia and Southeast Asia. All of the flights had two legs. The bombs would be planted inside life jackets under seats on the first leg, and each bomber would then disembark. He would then board one or two more flights and repeat. After all of the bombers had planted bombs on all of the flights, each man would then catch flights to Lahore, Pakistan. The men never needed U.S. visas, as they only would have been on the planes for their first legs in Asia.

United States airlines had been chosen instead of Asian airlines so as to maximize the shock toward Americans. The flights targeted were listed under operatives with codenames: "Zyed", "Majbos", "Markoa", "Mirqas" and "Obaid". Obaid, who was really Abdul Hakim Murad, was to hit United Flight 80, and then he was to go back to Singapore on another United flight which he would bomb.

Phase II, Airline bombing plot

The details of Phase I were found in the evidence discovered in the investigation into Room 603 in the Doña Josefa. If Phase II of the plot had been successful, it would have been, in terms of casualties, the most devastating Islamist terrorist attack in recent history.

The next plan would have involved at least five terrorists, including Yousef, Shah, Murad and two more unknown operatives. Beginning on January 21, 1995, and ending on January 22, 1995, they would have placed bombs on 11 United States-bound airliners which had stopovers scattered throughout East Asia and Southeast Asia. All of the flights had two legs. The bombs would be planted inside life jackets under seats on the first leg, and each bomber would then disembark. He would then board one or two more flights and repeat. After all of the bombers had planted bombs on all of the flights, each man would then catch flights to Lahore, Pakistan. The men never needed U.S. visas, as they only would have been on the planes for their first legs in Asia.
United States airlines had been chosen instead of Asian airlines so as to maximize the shock toward Americans.

Phase III, CIA plane crash plot

Abdul Hakim Murad confessed detailed Phase III in his interrogation by the Manila police after his capture.
Phase three would have involved Murad either renting, buying, or hijacking a small airplane, preferably a Cessna. The airplane would be filled with explosives. He would then crash it into the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters in the Langley area in Fairfax County, Virginia. Murad had been trained as a pilot in North Carolina, and was slated to be a suicide pilot.

There were alternate plans to hijack a 12th commercial airliner and use that instead of the small aircraft, probably due to the Manila cell's growing frustration with explosives. Testing explosives in a house or apartment is dangerous, and it can easily give away a terrorist plot. Khalid Sheik Mohammed probably made the alternate plan.

A report from the Philippines to the United States on January 20, 1995 stated, "What the subject has in his mind is that he will board any American commercial aircraft pretending to be an ordinary passenger. Then he will hijack said aircraft, control its cockpit and dive it at the CIA headquarters."

Another plot that was considered would have involved the hijacking of more airplanes. The World Trade Center (New York City, New York), The Pentagon (Arlington, Virginia), the United States Capitol (Washington, D.C.), the White House(Washington, D.C.), the Sears Tower (Chicago, Illinois), and the U.S Bank Tower (Los Angeles, California), would have been the likely targets.

Abdul Hakim Murad said that this part of the plot was dropped since the Manila cell could not recruit enough people to implement other hijackings in his confession with Filipino investigators, prior to the foiling of Operation Bojinka. This plot eventually would be the base plot for the September 11, 2001 attacks which involved hijacking commercial airliners as opposed to small aircraft loaded with explosives and crashing them into their intended targets. However, only the World Trade Center (which was destroyed) and The Pentagon (which suffered partial damage) were hit.


Osama bin Laden Declares War on the United States

Osama bin Laden had been fuming in anger at the United States for years and In 1996, Osama bin Laden declared war on the United States when he issued his fatwā, entitled

"Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places."

Osama bin Laden wanted to draw the United States into a war thinking that the United States would go down into defeat as the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and he got his wish into drawing the United States into a war, however, he was not very familiar with advanced U.S. military technology which eventually drove him out of Afghanistan and cost him his life and the lives of most of the senior leadership of al-Qaeda and many of its lower-level members, but  the war on terror continues. The American public is largely unaware just how widespread our war on terror really is.

I was returning to the United States from the Philippines in August 2001 and I remarked about the higher security level at the airport in Manila and wondered why security was not up to their level. My concern for airport security in the United States was realized on Sept 11, 2001.

Ironically, I was in the Philippines on a military mission when the Soviets shot down Korean 007 and in that case, our crew was called upon to fly support equipment to Japan. To add to that, while in the Philippines the world came within seconds of a full-blown global nuclear war and hardly anyone knew anything about the chilling incident that transpired in the Soviet Union and the world can thank a Soviet military officer for saving mankind from Armageddon.

Two months later, we came even closer to a nuclear war and the only reason why Soviet missiles failed to launch is because the wrong launch codes were entered. There was a third case where Soviet missiles went into launch mode, but that is totally another chilling story.

We are living in dangerous times and 911 was a wake-up call. We must learn from history otherwise we will be doomed to relive it.

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 July 2013 - 06:43 AM.

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#2706    Babe Ruth

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:47 PM

The truthers play into the government's hands about as much as Edward Snowden or Julian Assange play into the government's hands. :no:


#2707    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:50 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 04 July 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

The truthers play into the government's hands about as much as Edward Snowden or Julian Assange play into the government's hands. :no:

Truthers  allowed themselves to be duped and mislead by those who continue to spread disinformation, misinformation and outright lies.

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#2708    Babe Ruth

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:56 PM

No Sky, in many cases troofers are actually smarter than the average bear.  Lord knows they are far more curious than the average bear, and many times smarter.

But ability to understand when one's been fooled is not so much  a function of intelligence, as it is more a function of some physical thing.  The behavior is completely involuntary, though I think alot of effort is put into promoting the behavior.  The madness of the crowds, as man has demonstrated many times over the years.


#2709    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 04 July 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

No Sky, in many cases troofers are actually smarter than the average bear.

In other words, Troofers are smart enough to confuse Delta 1989, a B-767, as United 93, a B-757. Troofers are smart enough to confuse a group of scientist from a KC-135 as passengers of United 93.  Troofers are smart enough use known hoaxed videos as their evidence. Troofers are smart enough to claim that fairings, which are standard equipment on all B-767s, was a modified pod attached to United 175. I guess Troofers were not smart enough to understand that thousands of pounds of explosives could have been packed inside the lower cargo compartments without modifying anything.

Yes indeed, I got it now! I just don't know what ever came over me to have doubted them.

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 July 2013 - 08:14 PM.

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#2710    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:28 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 03 July 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

Not one of your more thought-provoking questions LG.

Well my apologies BR, but there's only so much depth I can add to this rather shallow and repetitive point of yours:  believing known liars is an irrational act.  Again, I don't see that many people making points that hinge entirely on 'believing known liars'.  Also, 'the government' isn't a person, it's tens if not hundreds of thousands of people, not all of which are a known liar any more than you are.  So your point doesn't really say much, we're stuck on the obvious, who specifically in the government is lying?  And regardless, statements aren't usually just accepted as true based on one person's say-so, and I haven't seen anyone say anything like, 'you should believe this point because it came from the government and they never lie'.

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"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#2711    Babe Ruth

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:00 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 04 July 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Well my apologies BR, but there's only so much depth I can add to this rather shallow and repetitive point of yours:  believing known liars is an irrational act.  Again, I don't see that many people making points that hinge entirely on 'believing known liars'.  Also, 'the government' isn't a person, it's tens if not hundreds of thousands of people, not all of which are a known liar any more than you are.  So your point doesn't really say much, we're stuck on the obvious, who specifically in the government is lying?  And regardless, statements aren't usually just accepted as true based on one person's say-so, and I haven't seen anyone say anything like, 'you should believe this point because it came from the government and they never lie'.

That's the beauty of it LG, the tendency to accept statements from authorities as true and accurate is very deeply ingrained in our psyche.  We believe what the authorities tells, and that behavior is so well conditioned in us that the average person thinks it perfectly normal and proper to believe authorities.

Even when people are made aware of specific cases of very clear deception and lies, they tend to give a pass and see it as aberrant behavior rather than than the consistent behavior that it is.

It becomes rather a subliminal awareness, a standard procedure, to believe that the government, or the church, or any other authority figure, is making factual statements.  Rather like admiring the Emperor's New Clothes, the mob believes that the government does not lie, or that its lies are few and far between.  That view simply does not comport with reality.


#2712    Phaeton80

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 06:15 PM

The moment people start excusing deceit from the government is the moment people will lose their resp. countries.
No one / organisation would accept an employee lying about having created a disadvantage for the employer ('stealing money' for example). Its insane to accept it from your government.

It is in no way comparable to an individual lying in a private setting, in my personal opinion.

Scary part is, at least 60% of the people dont have a clue, or give a damn, where the present trends are leading us. And I dont see that changing any time soon, especially in the US.
Given its majority rule - and even the constitution is up for grabs - its a pretty bleak picture. I digress, I think my opinion is clear.


#2713    Babe Ruth

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:08 PM

Martha Stewart was prosecuted and sent to prison for lying to an FBI agent.

James Clapper lied to Congress and nothing at all happens.

Anybody that doesn't understand how commonly the government lies is simply kidding himself.


#2714    skyeagle409

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 July 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Martha Stewart was prosecuted and sent to prison for lying to an FBI agent.

James Clapper lied to Congress and nothing at all happens.

Anybody that doesn't understand how commonly the government lies is simply kidding himself.

911 conspiracy websites lie and mislead on a regular basis.

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#2715    skyeagle409

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:56 PM

When there are conflicts that create wrinkles, it's time to call upon iron evidence to straighten out those wrinkles.

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