144 replies to this topic

[ExpandMyMind]

and then, on 06 February 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ex, how long are you going to take such an embarrassing uber legalistic view of this situation?  So unless courtroom quality proof can be offered for Iran working on components - including the most important one, fuel,  - then you cannot even imagine that they might be trying to position themselves for a bomb?  Do you require such a standard for ANYTHING else you discuss?  Frankly, people will stop taking what you say seriously if you keep up such an illogical pattern of absolute denial.  NO ONE in the world community any longer doubts Iran's intentions in this NOR do they think it is a beneficial course for the world.  You know, it is possible to acknowledge their attempt for nukes yet not approve of specific actions being considered against them - you just have to be honest about  where you stand.

edit to clarify that when I say NO ONE I mean world governments that aren't doing billions in business with Iran.

And Then, your own government states openly that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program! They are the most knowledgable intelligence gathering agency in the World. How long are you going to keep portraying my view as unreasonable? It is not just that there is no proof of an actual program, it is the fact that the combined intelligence community of the West is unanimous in agreement that there is no program!
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[skookum]

Don't want to harp on about the Stealth Fighter and size ( I think it might be R/C).

A modern MIRV is small.  In fact I could fit about 3-4 in a Ford Mondeo.  Even the smallest fighter could carry that amount.  Given the Russian and american power estimate of about 5 times Hiroshima per MIRV, even an 20% MIRV dropped from a fighter is very worrying.

But would a middle east nation drop a bomb on Israel unless attacked?  Well Iraq launched a good few Scuds on Israel in the 90's unprovoked by them.  Many British SAS men lost their lives taking out Scud threats too stop a Jihad starting.

Not that they or their families will get sympathy for stopping an all out blood bath.  It will be buried as propaganda.

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 08 February 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

And Then, your own government states openly that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program! They are the most knowledgable intelligence gathering agency in the World. How long are you going to keep portraying my view as unreasonable? It is not just that there is no proof of an actual program, it is the fact that the combined intelligence community of the West is unanimous in agreement that there is no program!
!!

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!!!

They and you and all others making such statements are playing word games IMO.  Their "program" would not exactly be something done in plain view, now would it?  The only evidence that is actually available is the refinement processes and even some of those might be hidden - remember what a surprise Fordow was?  By far the most difficult part of any bomb making venture is this refinement process.  Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing.  I have no doubt that Iran is not on the verge of assembling a weapon today.  But they are amassing the fuel to do so when they judge the time to be right.  Assembly is the easiest part of the job and can be done secretly.  You simply seem to be unconcerned with whether they have the bomb or not and that's your prerogative - but it truly baffles me that an educated and socially aware individual could see no jeopardy here.  Truth is nothing except an all out declaration of war to destroy all their infrastructure and a big part of their military capacity (missiles) could stop them from having the bomb when they want to build it now so it has become a moot point.  Ship has sailed on that possibility.  And not just for Iran I think, but for any other tinpot nation with the money to buy from the DPRK or Iran in the future.  This must be what it was like for thinking people in the '30s - they had to see it coming - nothing to be done except starting a pre-emptive war and that was and is just unacceptable.  So we will deal with the war once THEY decide when and where they want to push it to the limit.

[acidhead]

Stellar, on 07 February 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

You realise Canada kicked out Iranian diplomats a few months back because they were using the embassy to smuggle in potential saboteurs to the country?

Don't accept everything you hear from this Conservative GOV in Canada as the voice of the majority.

Edited by acidhead, 09 February 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[acidhead]

Zaphod222, on 07 February 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

Wrong paradigm. The Iranian mullah government is first and foremost guided by radical islamic doctrine, and by the Shiite "12er" teaching in particular. That is the foundation for their jihad against Israel, against the "Great Satan" USA, and for their Middle Eastern policy of dominating the Sunni countries in the region.
If you are unaware of that, you have not done your homework.
Start by reading history, of the region, and that of Khomeinis revolution in particular.

History.

Historically Iran has always been a major player in the region.  Nothing will change this fact.

They are a player in this global corporate GOV game.

[acidhead]

acidhead, on 09 February 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

History.

Historically Iran has always been a major player in the region.  Nothing will change this fact.

They are a player in this global corporate GOV game.

Same with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and of course Palestine...

[ExpandMyMind]

and then, on 08 February 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

They and you and all others making such statements are playing word games IMO.  Their "program" would not exactly be something done in plain view, now would it?  The only evidence that is actually available is the refinement processes and even some of those might be hidden - remember what a surprise Fordow was?  By far the most difficult part of any bomb making venture is this refinement process.  Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing.  I have no doubt that Iran is not on the verge of assembling a weapon today.  But they are amassing the fuel to do so when they judge the time to be right.  Assembly is the easiest part of the job and can be done secretly.  You simply seem to be unconcerned with whether they have the bomb or not and that's your prerogative - but it truly baffles me that an educated and socially aware individual could see no jeopardy here.  Truth is nothing except an all out declaration of war to destroy all their infrastructure and a big part of their military capacity (missiles) could stop them from having the bomb when they want to build it now so it has become a moot point.  Ship has sailed on that possibility.  And not just for Iran I think, but for any other tinpot nation with the money to buy from the DPRK or Iran in the future.  This must be what it was like for thinking people in the '30s - they had to see it coming - nothing to be done except starting a pre-emptive war and that was and is just unacceptable.  So we will deal with the war once THEY decide when and where they want to push it to the limit.

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 09 February 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.

And you can keep displaying your naivete but be sure there are many who know it for what it is.


How two students built an A-bomb

It's one of the burning questions of the moment: how easy would it be for a country with no nuclear expertise to build an A-bomb? Forty years ago in a top-secret project, the US military set about finding out. Oliver Burkeman talks to the men who solved the nuclear puzzle in just 30 months
http://www.guardian..../24/usa.science

Edited by and then, 09 February 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[Frank Merton]

One of these days I would say there is a high possibility that a city somewhere will be destroyed by a nuclear explosion.

I suspect that will change the world.  If you think the powers are against nuclear proliferation now, guess what will happen then?  And guess what will happen to the powers of agencies like Homeland Security?

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 09 February 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.

As to the rest of your diatribe - you might try actually READING what I said - you have an assumption of me based on your own bias and you read that right into something you thought I would say when I actually said EXACTLY the opposite.  I said I "have no doubt they are NOT assembling a bomb".  If you, in your pitiable arrogance want to continue in willful ignorance of the state of the world today and what the threats are because you'd rather point out all the faults of your own and other western style governments then rock on, man.  No doubt when the reality of it comes crashing in on you you'll be able to justify your position - only problem is there won't be ANYONE listening to the bull**** anymore.