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Cindy and Craig Corrie Interviewed


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#1    Yamato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:35 AM

I've never seen an interview at length with either of Rachel Corrie's parents, much less both of them.  But finally we have the opportunity to hear both of her parents speak about her human rights activism and fatal encounter with an illegal Israeli bulldozing operation.

My heart goes out to these beautiful people.



"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#2    and then

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:09 AM

It was unfortunate that this young woman died as she did.   Equally unfortunate that her death was used by the group she was working with to try and destroy the bulldozer operator and the Israeli government for what quite obviously was a tragic accident.

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#3    Yamato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

View Postand then, on 06 December 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

It was unfortunate that this young woman died as she did.   Equally unfortunate that her death was used by the group she was working with to try and destroy the bulldozer operator and the Israeli government for what quite obviously was a tragic accident.
Based on?  Something in the video?   All those other "tragic accidents" every time Israel kills an American?  

"Try and destroy" the bulldozer operator?   Or bring him to justice to account for his crime?   Run someone over and kill them "by accident" in your own country and learn what happens to you.   At least at automotive speeds there's some room for error under poor driving conditions.   Going less than 1mph in a bulldozer and still managing to crush someone to death who's standing right in front of you with a megaphone isn't a tragic accident it's a stupid one.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#4    Hasina

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

My sympathies to her family but not to her. You stand in front of a moving vehicle, even if the person operating the vehicle sees you, you're putting yourself in danger, intentionally. I'm not sure what the 'true' story is, whether the operator saw her or not, he said he didn't, others in her group say he did. This is one of those eye for an eye and the world goes blind kind of tragedies. There's nothing good from this story, really, even the protesting of these settlements just seems to have been dirtied by this death.

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#5    Yamato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:12 PM

View PostHasina, on 06 December 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

My sympathies to her family but not to her. You stand in front of a moving vehicle, even if the person operating the vehicle sees you, you're putting yourself in danger, intentionally. I'm not sure what the 'true' story is, whether the operator saw her or not, he said he didn't, others in her group say he did. This is one of those eye for an eye and the world goes blind kind of tragedies. There's nothing good from this story, really, even the protesting of these settlements just seems to have been dirtied by this death.

So she died in vain and nothing good can come out of it?

Actually...were we to have no sympathy for this man either, just because the tank driver "saw" him, or perhaps because even the Commie government of China has more restraint than Israel's?

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"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#6    Yamato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

The true story is Rachel Corrie was shouting into a megaphone at the bulldozer, so the bulldozer driver must've been deaf too while he was busy not "seeing" her.   The Chinese hero above was holding two shopping bags, not a megaphone.  So even if the lead tank's commander wasn't deaf (and blind), he at least might not have heard him screaming, if he even was.

Where does our sympathy really lie?   At least with the nonviolent civil action that doesn't get you killed by the violence you're protesting?  Was our Chinese hero brave, or just stupid (yet sensible because he as an individual didn't die for the photo op)?   Would Rachel have deserved sympathy if she nimbly dived out of the way of the blind dozer at the last second?

Couldn't see?   Puleez.

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Edited by Yamato, 06 December 2012 - 03:29 PM.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#7    Hasina

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostYamato, on 06 December 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

So she died in vain and nothing good can come out of it?

Actually...were we to have no sympathy for this man either, just because the tank driver "saw" him, or perhaps because even the Commie government of China has more restraint than Israel's?

Posted Image

View PostYamato, on 06 December 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

The true story is Rachel Corrie was shouting into a megaphone at the bulldozer, so the bulldozer driver must've been deaf too while he was busy not "seeing" her.   The Chinese hero above was holding two shopping bags, not a megaphone.  So even if the lead tank's commander wasn't deaf (and blind), he at least might not have heard him screaming, if he even was.

Where does our sympathy really lie?   At least with the nonviolent civil action that doesn't get you killed by the violence you're protesting?  Was our Chinese hero brave, or just stupid (yet sensible because he as an individual didn't die for the photo op)?   Would Rachel have deserved sympathy if she nimbly dived out of the way of the blind dozer at the last second?

Couldn't see?   Puleez.

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First, if you would like to discuss the Tiananmen Square incident, start a thread and I'll check it out, so I'll just disregard the comparisons between a Chinese protest for democracy and a human rights protest in occupied territory by an American citizen.

Seen? Heard? Was I or were you in the bulldozer at that exact moment? I wasn't so I can't tell you what he saw or heard, but I can read his statements and the statements of the other protesters. Is it horrible she died? Of course! But I'm not gonna play a violin for her when she was in a dangerous situation and only made it more dangerous for herself. Playing a cat and mouse game with vehicles? Putting yourself in front of a bulldozer?

Fine. Yes. He saw her. But she saw the bulldozer too.

I think people should treat vehicles like they should treat guns. If it's moving, don't get in front of it cause it could hit you, while with a gun, you don't point it at someone because it could be loaded.

Edited by Hasina, 06 December 2012 - 06:13 PM.

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#8    OverSword

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

The Corries have my sympathy, but do they really think that the sacrificing thier daughter for thier liberal ideals was a fair exchange?  It was after all thier idealism that was the root of her own over the top activism.  She died for nothing in my viewpoint.  They remind me of my sisters in-laws who at the birth of my neice announced (to the disgust of my father and I) hooray!  Another voter for the democratic party!


#9    odas

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

View PostOverSword, on 06 December 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

The Corries have my sympathy, but do they really think that the sacrificing thier daughter for thier liberal ideals was a fair exchange?  It was after all thier idealism that was the root of her own over the top activism.  She died for nothing in my viewpoint.  They remind me of my sisters in-laws who at the birth of my neice announced (to the disgust of my father and I) hooray!  Another voter for the democratic party!
You may think so but she did not die for nothing.
God bless her.


#10    OverSword

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

View Postodas, on 06 December 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

You may think so but she did not die for nothing.
God bless her.
I specified it was my viewpoint.  And since not one thing has changed since her death.........


#11    Hasina

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

View PostOverSword, on 06 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

I specified it was my viewpoint.  And since not one thing has changed since her death.........
Well, other then the 3000 newly planned settlements...

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#12    and then

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:50 PM

View PostYamato, on 06 December 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Based on?  Something in the video?   All those other "tragic accidents" every time Israel kills an American?  

"Try and destroy" the bulldozer operator?   Or bring him to justice to account for his crime?   Run someone over and kill them "by accident" in your own country and learn what happens to you.   At least at automotive speeds there's some room for error under poor driving conditions.   Going less than 1mph in a bulldozer and still managing to crush someone to death who's standing right in front of you with a megaphone isn't a tragic accident it's a stupid one.
Yam this young woman probably thought she was untouchable because of a US passport.  She put herself in a very dangerous situation and a terrible accident occurred.  To say anything else is to accuse the driver of murdering her.  What possible benefit would accrue to any Israeli in that situation?  I mean, really?  At worst the driver may have been upset for her brashness and assumed she had sense enough to get out of the way of a huge multiple ton piece of heavy equipment.  That seems a reasonable assumption to me.  Her parents probably are more responsible for her death than the dozer operator.  They made her fearless and somewhat arrogant IMO.  The world is a cruel place and has little pity for the haughty.

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#13    MichaelW

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:49 AM

View PostYamato, on 06 December 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

So she died in vain and nothing good can come out of it?

Hit the nail on the head.

Quote

Actually...were we to have no sympathy for this man either, just because the tank driver "saw" him, or perhaps because even the Commie government of China has more restraint than Israel's?

Israel hasn't sent the military into Tel Aviv to protect the establishment. Also, China isn't communist. It's run by the Communist Party but it does capitalism better than the US does.

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#14    acidhead

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:41 AM

View Postand then, on 06 December 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

Yam this young woman probably thought she was untouchable because of a US passport.  She put herself in a very dangerous situation and a terrible accident occurred.  To say anything else is to accuse the driver of murdering her.  What possible benefit would accrue to any Israeli in that situation?  I mean, really?  At worst the driver may have been upset for her brashness and assumed she had sense enough to get out of the way of a huge multiple ton piece of heavy equipment.  That seems a reasonable assumption to me.  Her parents probably are more responsible for her death than the dozer operator.  They made her fearless and somewhat arrogant IMO.  The world is a cruel place and has little pity for the haughty.

Sorry bud... but that post has more excuses than ...  the driver of the heavy duty operation machine is guilty of negligence at the very least.  When you're the operator of such a piece of machinery, especially in public, you make damn sure you're operating in the best safety of the environment surrounding you.  This was pure negligence.   Absolutely no respect given to the third party which the individual would have given one of his own family members or friends. .... GUILTY

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#15    Yamato

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:37 AM

View PostHasina, on 06 December 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

First, if you would like to discuss the Tiananmen Square incident, start a thread and I'll check it out, so I'll just disregard the comparisons between a Chinese protest for democracy and a human rights protest in occupied territory by an American citizen.

Seen? Heard? Was I or were you in the bulldozer at that exact moment? I wasn't so I can't tell you what he saw or heard, but I can read his statements and the statements of the other protesters. Is it horrible she died? Of course! But I'm not gonna play a violin for her when she was in a dangerous situation and only made it more dangerous for herself. Playing a cat and mouse game with vehicles? Putting yourself in front of a bulldozer?

Fine. Yes. He saw her. But she saw the bulldozer too.

I think people should treat vehicles like they should treat guns. If it's moving, don't get in front of it cause it could hit you, while with a gun, you don't point it at someone because it could be loaded.
Am I unreasonable to compare Tank Man to Rachel Corrie when "standing in front of a moving vehicle" was the reason for your lack of sympathy?   I had hoped a battle tank would qualify.

"She saw the bulldozer" begs the question what was she doing.  She was protesting at least, and obstructing an illegal demolition at most.   Either act of civil disobedience is equally respectable to me.   Her man-slaughtering bulldozer driver just following orders and killing her doesn't diminish her civil service or her uncanny bravery.   Who among us is truly courageous enough to stand up to brutality and force control, standing in front of a giant metal monster moving towards us.   I would bet money that none of us are.  She's a modern day martyr to some, a treasonous fool to others, love Rachel or hate her.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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