How did they find us.!?

[Hazzard]

Lets set aside the question of whether advanced galactic societies would have the slightest interest in our wars, WMD, our pollution problems, our reproductive systems or our cows butts.

The real question is, how would they know about us at all?

There is only one way that they can tell from interstellar distance that intelligent creatures inhabit this planet....RADIO. Our radio signals travel at the speed of light, and this means that even with infinitely fast spacecraft, the aliens cant be much farther off than 15 light-years to have reached our lovely planet by 1947,(Rosswell). The number of star systems within 15 light-years is about three dozen. There would have to be 10 billion technically sophisticated societies in the Galaxy to have a reasonable chance of finding one camped out among the nearest three dozen stars. Thats optimism of a high level indeed.

What about warp drive? Lightspeed? Maybe the aliens can create wormholes and get here in essentially no time?

It doesnt matter. Ill worry about how they got here once Im convinced that theyve really made the scene.

To get here they need to know were we are.

Approximately half the U.S. population suspects that extraterrestrials have come to our planet. This is such a controversial (and emotional) topic that its mere mention guarantees a storm of Web chat and high-voltage PMs. In the end, of course, the matter of alien visitation will be decided by the evidence, not by the intensity of opinion.

While I certainly expect that the Galaxy is home to many advanced societies, the quality of the evidence has so far failed to convince me that any of them have emissaries on our planet.

[Pinowawa1]

This thread may be the first of its kind. Good questions! Perhaps they just know- like a 6th sense ... and maybe SETI's attempts to communicate with them is only keeping the entrance door open to them instead of picking up the reciever...

[Unlimited]

good question hazzard....I believe they've known about earth for billions of years.

[badeskov]

hazzard,

Lets set aside the question of whether advanced galactic societies would have the slightest interest in our wars, WMD, our pollution problems, our reproductive systems or our cows butts.

The real question is, how would they know about us at all?

There is only one way that they can tell from interstellar distance that intelligent creatures inhabit this planet....RADIO. Our radio signals travel at the speed of light, and this means that even with infinitely fast spacecraft, the aliens cant be much farther off than 15 light-years to have reached our lovely planet by 1947,(Rosswell). The number of star systems within 15 light-years is about three dozen. There would have to be 10 billion technically sophisticated societies in the Galaxy to have a reasonable chance of finding one camped out among the nearest three dozen stars. Thats optimism of a high level indeed.

What about warp drive? Lightspeed? Maybe the aliens can create wormholes and get here in essentially no time?

It doesnt matter. Ill worry about how they got here once Im convinced that theyve really made the scene.

To get here they need to know were we are.

Approximately half the U.S. population suspects that extraterrestrials have come to our planet. This is such a controversial (and emotional) topic that its mere mention guarantees a storm of Web chat and high-voltage PMs. In the end, of course, the matter of alien visitation will be decided by the evidence, not by the intensity of opinion.

While I certainly expect that the Galaxy is home to many advanced societies, the quality of the evidence has so far failed to convince me that any of them have emissaries on our planet.

Very good post. Your points reflect my thoughts exactly. I would find myself extremely self-centric if I said that there are no other intelligent civilizations out there; I am convinced there are many. But I highly doubt that any happened to be so close by that they have discovered us in our little, private corner of the galaxy.

Best,

Badeskov

[badeskov]

good question hazzard....I believe they've known about earth for billions of years.

Meaning that they discovered Earth right after it was created?

Best,

Badeskov

[dmurdock36]

I think they know about us because they are originally from here, that is also why they show interest in our wars and what we are doing to earth, it might possibly have been there home at one time, and for whatever reason they felt a need to leave earth, asteroid heading this way maybe the one that killed the dinosaurs scared them off. Lets face it our view of the history of this earth come only from tales that we have heard and the few things that we have stumbled accross fossils and such, we really dont know all that much and arent learning anymore because we think we know it all, if we find something that doesnt fit with what we know, we spend so much time trying to prove it isnt true that we fail to see the truth. I really dont know this is just a thought that occured to me when reading the thread.

[Pax Unum]

I would find myself extremely self-centric if I said that there are no other intelligent civilizations out there; I am convinced there are many. But I highly doubt that any happened to be so close by that they have discovered us in our little, private corner of the galaxy.

Best,

Badeskov

for me the catch is 'intelligence'... I have no problem with there being worlds with life, but if Earth is an example of the average planet, then intelligence is rare... we've gone from knuckle dragging to space in a million years, the dinosaurs were kings of the planet for many millions of years but we don't find real intelligence, even the dinosaurs that survived (Birds), never evolved intelligence in 65 million years... I'm not saying there aren't any other civilizations out there, there just might not be a lot of them. IMO

and space is VAST, the chances of just stumbling upon Earth before we started sending radio waves out into space seems unlikely, they would have to actively search for planets in systems that would 'likely' harbor life... of course they could have really good scanners, or lot's of free time, and ships that can travel quickly across interstellar space...

[badeskov]

I think they know about us because they are originally from here, that is also why they show interest in our wars and what we are doing to earth, it might possibly have been there home at one time, and for whatever reason they felt a need to leave earth, asteroid heading this way maybe the one that killed the dinosaurs scared them off. Lets face it our view of the history of this earth come only from tales that we have heard and the few things that we have stumbled accross fossils and such, we really dont know all that much and arent learning anymore because we think we know it all, if we find something that doesnt fit with what we know, we spend so much time trying to prove it isnt true that we fail to see the truth. I really dont know this is just a thought that occured to me when reading the thread.

Uhm, I would say that we actually know quite a bit about the history of our planet, and one thing abundantly missing is traces of any former civilizations living here. And given that we are talking about a highly advanced race with the capability for interstellar space travel, they should have left behind a bunch of artifacts. Unless they, now that they were faced with an extinction level event in the form of an asteroid, decided to thoroughly clean up before they left and bring everything with them. Somehow that doesn't really sound like the smartest thing to do.

And I certainly wouldn't call our knowledge tales - that might offend a bunch of biologists/anthropologists/geologist/etc.

Best,

Badeskov

[Pax Unum]

And given that we are talking about a highly advanced race with the capability for interstellar space travel, they should have left behind a bunch of artifacts.

Best,

Badeskov

yeah, you'd think there would be SOME artifacts...

[SomethingPoetical]

They found us through Myspace, because afterall- it is a place for friends. And they got here through the big ass hole in the ozone layer. Happy I could help.

[badeskov]

for me the catch is 'intelligence'... I have no problem with there being worlds with life, but if Earth is an example of the average planet, then intelligence is rare... we've gone from knuckle dragging to space in a million years, the dinosaurs were kings of the planet for many millions of years but we don't find real intelligence, even the dinosaurs that survived (Birds), never evolved intelligence in 65 million years... I'm not saying there aren't any other civilizations out there, there just might not be a lot of them. IMO

and space is VAST, the chances of just stumbling upon Earth before we started sending radio waves out into space seems unlikely, they would have to actively search for planets in systems that would 'likely' harbor life... of course they could have really good scanners, or lot's of free time, and ships that can travel quickly across interstellar space...

I would have to agree with you. And with intelligence, I am thinking of a race that have evolved to where interstellar travel is possible. As we have no means of detecting and visiting a planet with life on the caveman (or their analogy) stage, well, such planets are not really of any interest to us. So, yes, I would contend that intelligent life is rare as well. But space is a mighty big place and given the number of stars, in my opinion the number of planets inhabited by intelligent beings is high. Nonetheless, I also believe that said planets are spaced pretty far apart and I find it highly unlikely that we will encounter any such in our close neighbourhood

Best,

Badeskov

[Annointer]

Why wouldn't aliens find us if they had the means to travel? If they're anything like humans they'd explore like we would if we had the technology. I'm sure aliens have been gallavanting around for thousands or millions of years so it would be improbable that none would have discovered us.

[badeskov]

Why wouldn't aliens find us if they had the means to travel? If they're anything like humans they'd explore like we would if we had the technology. I'm sure aliens have been gallavanting around for thousands or millions of years so it would be improbable that none would have discovered us.

While I would think that any space faring race would also have the urge to explore, space is still a vastly big ocean to navigate. To quote hazzard:

The real question is, how would they know about us at all?

There is only one way that they can tell from interstellar distance that intelligent creatures inhabit this planet....RADIO. Our radio signals travel at the speed of light, and this means that even with infinitely fast spacecraft, the aliens cant be much farther off than 15 light-years to have reached our lovely planet by 1947,(Rosswell). The number of star systems within 15 light-years is about three dozen. There would have to be 10 billion technically sophisticated societies in the Galaxy to have a reasonable chance of finding one camped out among the nearest three dozen stars. Thats optimism of a high level indeed.

So either we have somebody living in a star system very close by or they simply blundered into us by sheer coincidence. And the latter seems very improbable given the amount of stars.

Best,

Badeskov

[Unlimited]

Im kind of glad our government lies to us; about the truth in the Universe; not knowing creates such great speculation

[badeskov]

Im kind of glad our government lies to us; about the truth in the Universe; not knowing creates such great speculation

Definitely makes for some passionate and interesting discussions. Although I do have hard believing the government could keep this under wraps for so long - we are talking the same government that couldn't even keep secret a simple burglary (watergate).

Best,

Badeskov

[dmurdock36]

Uhm, I would say that we actually know quite a bit about the history of our planet, and one thing abundantly missing is traces of any former civilizations living here. And given that we are talking about a highly advanced race with the capability for interstellar space travel, they should have left behind a bunch of artifacts. Unless they, now that they were faced with an extinction level event in the form of an asteroid, decided to thoroughly clean up before they left and bring everything with them. Somehow that doesn't really sound like the smartest thing to do.

And I certainly wouldn't call our knowledge tales - that might offend a bunch of biologists/anthropologists/geologist/etc.

Best,

Badeskov

Offend away, LOL all we know about is what we have found which isnt much, lets face it the Sumerians got there knowledge from somewhere they didnt just come into being knowing all they know even they say in there writings that they were given the info but of course we discount this because it doesnt fit in with our pre conceived notions. We know very little but think we know everything which is why it takes so long for us to learn anything. When you think you know everything you arent looking for answers anymore just a way to back up what you think to be correct. We have theories not much more. I think our scientists are to closed minded to find anything new. I also think that if a civilization was here a 100,000 years or more ago we wouldnt be able to find anything it would have been long covered up by our own earth tectonics buried beneath tons of earth or just flat destroyed. We find a few animals but it is pure dumb luck. Nobody thought Troy was real but what we found it imagine that. I also love the way that scientist decide what other civilizations were thinking when we have no way of knowing.

[badeskov]

the Sumerians got there knowledge from somewhere they didnt just come into being knowing all they know even they say in there writings that they were given the info but of course we discount this because it doesnt fit in with our pre conceived notions.

No, we discount that theory that the Sumerians got their knowledge from Aliens because that is the least plausible theory available. There is simply no evidence to support it. I don't mean that the evidence is thin - I am saying there is no evidence whatsoever. And I must admit that I find the lack of trust in the human ability to learn and evolve by themselves rather disturbing.

We know very little but think we know everything which is why it takes so long for us to learn anything. When you think you know everything you arent looking for answers anymore just a way to back up what you think to be correct. We have theories not much more. I think our scientists are to closed minded to find anything new.

Hmmm, you don't think we see development technologically? How about the last 100 years? I would say that progress has actually been quite remarkable.

I also think that if a civilization was here a 100,000 years or more ago we wouldnt be able to find anything it would have been long covered up by our own earth tectonics buried beneath tons of earth or just flat destroyed.

First of all, to be buried under such a layer of rock they would have been here many million years ago, not a mere 100,000 years. But that is really irrelevant to this discussion. We can find fossilized traces of animals hundreds of millions years old, yet we cannot find a single trace of a highly advanced civilization?!?! That I would find very odd indeed. They would be a very cleaning obsessed race not to leave some buildings or other artifacts for us to find.

So, no evidence supports such a theory, rather the opposite.

Badeskov

[Unlimited]

Definitely makes for some passionate and interesting discussions. Although I do have hard believing the government could keep this under wraps for so long - we are talking the same government that couldn't even keep secret a simple burglary (watergate).

Best,

Badeskov

I think they've improved their cover up skills over the last 35 years?

[badeskov]

I think they've improved their cover up skills over the last 35 years?

That I would highly doubt. We are talking intelligence (military and others) services that never saw the fall of the Soviet Union coming, the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein, the Balkan wars, the secret North Korean nuclear programme and so on. And that is only in the last 15 years. I would ascribe much to them, but keeping an Alien programme of this magnitude secret for so long, well, lets just say that if I believed that you could probably also sell me an Eiffel tower.

But the government's ability to hide stuff like that is not the topic on discussion here, so we'd better leave it at that

Best,

Badeskov

[dmurdock36]

No, we discount that theory that the Sumerians got their knowledge from Aliens because that is the least plausible theory available. There is simply no evidence to support it. I don't mean that the evidence is thin - I am saying there is no evidence whatsoever. And I must admit that I find the lack of trust in the human ability to learn and evolve by themselves rather disturbing.

I never said anything about aliens, I said somewhere meaning they did some archeology themselves and found it or there were some left behind from previous civilizations that had left earth. I do beleive humans have the ability to learn and evolve themselve but they dont start off that way it takes time and from what I can see and read it appears that humans have been going backwards technology wise for some time before we got back to where we are today.

Hmmm, you don't think we see development technologically? How about the last 100 years? I would say that progress has actually been quite remarkable.

I am talking about history not technology new technology history we have closed our minds too thinking we know it all already.

First of all, to be buried under such a layer of rock they would have been here many million years ago, not a mere 100,000 years. But that is really irrelevant to this discussion. We can find fossilized traces of animals hundreds of millions years old, yet we cannot find a single trace of a highly advanced civilization?!?! That I would find very odd indeed. They would be a very cleaning obsessed race not to leave some buildings or other artifacts for us to find.

So, no evidence supports such a theory, rather the opposite.

What we have found is very little and that is just because we got lucky and the animal died at exactly the right place and time for it to be found. We have no proof of anything unless you know someone that was there we have no way of knowing. My guess is as good as anyone at least I am not closing my mind to other possibilities you do that and you definately wont learn anything new unless someone shoves it down your throat. Just saying scientists are very closed minded to the past.

[badeskov]

I never said anything about aliens,

Sorry, that was me presuming them to be aliens. Previous civilizations it is then.

I said somewhere meaning they did some archeology themselves and found it or there were some left behind from previous civilizations that had left earth. I do beleive humans have the ability to learn and evolve themselve but they dont start off that way it takes time and from what I can see and read it appears that humans have been going backwards technology wise for some time before we got back to where we are today.

Uhm, yes, it takes time to evolve. I believe the earliest humanoid bones found is about 160,000 years old. That's a fairly long time, I would say. But I would say that I don't see that we have been going backwards in time.

I am talking about history not technology new technology history we have closed our minds too thinking we know it all already.

What we have found is very little and that is just because we got lucky and the animal died at exactly the right place and time for it to be found.

Very little? Not really. Some places you can literally grab a handful of rock and find fossilized remains. Bigger animals you have to look for and a some luck is required. Yet we have found a lot of remains dating back hundreds of millions of years. So we actually do know quite a lot! And what we also know is that we have found no trace whatsoever of any previous civilization. Given the footprint such a civilization would leave, the odds certainly don't favour that it has ever been there.

We have no proof of anything unless you know someone that was there we have no way of knowing. My guess is as good as anyone at least I am not closing my mind to other possibilities you do that and you definately wont learn anything new unless someone shoves it down your throat. Just saying scientists are very closed minded to the past.

You are absolutely right. I am one of those close-minded people that won't accept new ideas. Or, rather, I am one of those people that won't accept ideas of such a ludicrous nature that not only is presented without any proof, but even with evidence pointing in the complete opposite direction

Badeskov

Edited October 30, 2006 by badeskov

[Lilly]

You are absolutely right. I am one of those close-minded people that won't accept new ideas. Or, rather, I am one of those people that won't accept ideas of such a ludicrous nature that not only is presented without any proof, but even with evidence pointing in the complete opposite direction

You know what they say about having an open mind...it's good to have an open mind, just not so wide open that you risk having your brain fall out!

[badeskov]

You know what they say about having an open mind...it's good to have an open mind, just not so wide open that you risk having your brain fall out!

That is so very true I try to keep my brain thoroughly locked up!

Best,

Badeskov

[dmurdock36]

My brain fell out years ago.LOL I wasnt aiming the comment about being closed minded at you I was referring to the scientific community in general. I dont wan this to get personal I have really enjoyed your responses. I am just not sure we have it right yet and I will not be sold on the scientific ideas until they open there mind a little, not so much there brains fall out but at least entertain other ideas. I dont beleive half the stuff I say either its just a possibility I feel.

[badeskov]

dmurdock36,

My brain fell out years ago.LOL I wasnt aiming the comment about being closed minded at you I was referring to the scientific community in general. I dont wan this to get personal I have really enjoyed your responses. I am just not sure we have it right yet and I will not be sold on the scientific ideas until they open there mind a little, not so much there brains fall out but at least entertain other ideas. I dont beleive half the stuff I say either its just a possibility I feel.

Thanks! I didn't think that you were aiming at me, but I figured I could just as well aim it at myself I certainly enjoy a good discussion as well and if it ends up with us agreeing to disagree, so be it - as long as we had fun getting there

Best,

Badeskov