Human race is losing inteligence.

[Professor T]

Hahaha actually I am one of those guys who is fed up by the consumerism culture the humans have adopted on this planet, it just doesn't make sense.

Ever heard of Peter Joseph? The guy who made the Zeitgeist Documentary Series??

He has made a new series by the name "Culture In Decline" that targets the roots of the problems in the society,

You should check out www.cultureindecline.com and I am sure you will understand what I am saying after watching it's first three episodes.

Thanks.

This has a lot of truth in it & touches on what I was talking about earlier about the manipulation of society at subconscious levels..

[media=]

[/media] Edited February 23, 2013 by Professor T

[Jinxdom]

Okay I don't think there is much truth in this.. Ultimately I think that this line of reasoning is incredibly self destructive because claiming that inteligence is born from the whole "Life is survival of the fittest" senario or "Life is War" set's us up to creating life senario's like what is highlighted... The fact that life is no-longer survial of the fittest or War doesn't imo rob us of inteligence.

Actually goes towards the whole being easier to breed part.(Sex feels good no?) Where stupidity in general has a tendency to survive and thrive now instead of being killed off.(Which does lower the intelligence of humanity) This is why it feels like society(Or some super government agency if you are in to conspiracy theories) is dumbing us down on purpose at times.

On point with the rest of your post though.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Jinxdom

[CrimsonKing]

I believe one of the biggest numbing and dumbing tools ever created to bedevil mankind has been reality tv.

[White Crane Feather]

Thanks.

This has a lot of truth in it & touches on what I was talking about earlier about the manipulation of society at subconscious levels..

[media=]

[/media]

Some thoughtful stuff there. But I feel that there are some big problems with this way of thinking. Actual economic theory backed up by research and peer review has a lot to say about this. People argue that economic philosophy is at fault, but what most people do not realize is that we don't actually follow what we learn by studying human choice in a scientific manner. We do not actually follow capitalism properly. Originally capitalism was never chosen as a system to fix everything and make the world hunky dory. Capitalism is a response and best fit for human nature through careful research. It would be nice to feed and cloth every human on earth up to modern standards, but even though we have the resources to do so, time and time again through practice and history we are shown that the ideologies that we come up with are grossly Inadequate because you have to move against human nature to acomplish it, and ultimately we are humans that implement it. The unfortunate problem is that capitalism is a fact just as much as evolution is.... NOT a philosophy. As such capitalistic behaviors will emerge in even the most well thought of social structures. People as an average will follow their nature which is ultimately utilitarian no matter which way Somone spins it. Real economists know this. Through careful study, research, experimentation, and peer review actual economists know what the problems really are. When I say actual economists I mean actual scholars. These people that study finance and the movement of money are not really economists. Actual economics has nothing to do with money it has to do with utility and human choice. It could be defined as the science of human choice. Money just happens to be a media for choice. But it's just one. Very few people realize this.

Just an example amoung many

Actual capitalistic theory forbids things called externalities. These are costs businesses, corporations, or individuals impose upon others. These have dire mathematical cosequnes and can be demonstrated on simple supply and demand curves, yet for some reason in the way we operate our capitalistic society it is direly ignored. If we would only listen to real economists who are really actually scientists, we could infact fix a lot.

I find it interesting that a video about being misinformed tauting scientific reasoning, is acutually misinformed and unscientific. But that's just my opinion. Though i do agree heavily withboutsbout politics. The problem is that true economic principals are not being aplied there either. And yes I do have a degree in economics.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Seeker79

[Fstop]

Right, everything information wise is written with an agenda or persuasion, so the ability to discern and weigh up sides is crucial to maintain and support a self aware existence. Most people tho are lazy or untrained to do so.

It all started with TV imo, and then media...fame. TV is designed to make us first of all feel dissatisfied with our lifes and then hook us into regimes, by selling our egos the remedies and solutions to make us feel better. Everything from commercials to soap operas, to the celebrity culture showing off the life we all think we should be having. In soap operas people are sold the "decided" plot lines and scenarios in dramatic form, which are nothing more than implantation of social programming / agendas. Do you know that some of the well known news sites / online papers have SOAP OPERA HEADLINES sometimes mixed up with every day news ? The daily life of a celebrity is a soap opera too - it's such a joke.

It's quite amazing really what they have achieved in managing to create a whole economy and society based on illusion and the fantasy needs of the ego. And people think people like myself are the ones not living in the real world. Pfft lol.

Great post. Well said.

[Frank Merton]

OK, I don't have a degree in economics. I have to say that I don't get your assertion that capitalism is "natural" human utilitarian behavior. First, although you are not explicit about this, I take it when you mean "capitalistic structures" you mean markets. Markets of course do seeming automatically appear a lot, but there are many ways people try to get what they want, and markets are just one. Far more common in human history is probably various forms of thievery and extortion, of which, of course. markets are not entirely lacking. Seizure via conquest in war has always also been popular, and various forms of slavery.

[White Crane Feather]

OK, I don't have a degree in economics. I have to say that I don't get your assertion that capitalism is "natural" human utilitarian behavior. First, although you are not explicit about this, I take it when you mean "capitalistic structures" you mean markets. Markets of course do seeming automatically appear a lot, but there are many ways people try to get what they want, and markets are just one. Far more common in human history is probably various forms of thievery and extortion, of which, of course. markets are not entirely lacking. Seizure via conquest in war has always also been popular, and various forms of slavery.

Sorry I should have said self interested behavior or capitalizing behavior. Capitalism is a system to take advantage of natural behaviors and regulate it. Obviously property rights, regulation of externalities, monopolies, and attempts to hinder competition are important tenants to capitalism. Often when people bash capitalism, what they really end up bashing is what true theory actually forbids.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Seeker79

[Fstop]

I was having a conversation with my daughter (10) the other day. She'd asked me if I'd rather live in modern times or pioneer times. She said that she'd rather live in pioneer times because things were simpler then and people weren't as concered about things like what clothes were cool and drama between friends. She's a smart kid.

I told her that there are things about modern times that are beneficial and things about pioneer times that are beneficial. I think that our modern world has made life very easy for a lot of us - sort of like the EASY button on those office supply store commercials.

Back in the day we had to figure out how to survive, how to solve problems, how to use our time efficiently to accomplish the things we needed to to just to eke out our existence everyday. I think our brains and bodies were fitter as a result. We only had time to worry about the important stuff and because of that life, though more perilous and uncertain may have been simpler and better.

Now EVERYTHING can be done for us by computers and machines. I participate daily in modern convenience, much to my chagrin at times. They can 3-D print stuff for goodness sakes! I think the by-product of all this is that our minds are less engaged with the process of actually living. So we fill our time with videogames, TV, the internet.....superflous endeavors that entertain our brains for us...a passive process of stimulation. I see this at school with the kids i teach all the time. If it isn't fun and entertaining, good luck trying to get them to engage AT ALL. Schools are in the business of edutainment these days. Its a vicious cycle because the more you have to entertain, the less time you have to actually deliver content and knowledge.

The net effect is that everyone is getting dumber. At least thats the way I see it.

[WoIverine]

I believe one of the biggest numbing and dumbing tools ever created to bedevil mankind has been reality tv.

They do call it the idiot box. After I moved out on my own, I never got cable...haven't regretted it ever since. $55 per month, they can keep it!

Edited February 23, 2013 by WoIverine

[Fstop]

I haven't had cable, satellite...nuthin for almost 3 years. I get a little TV at my part time job - and I don't see anything I'm missing.

[Frank Merton]

I live in an officially "socialist" society that has decided for the time being that markets are necessary and that the good thing about socialism is that regulation of markets is readily accomplished without having to employ legions of lawyers. In the end, though, a more pure socialism -- or something that doesn't even include the concept of ownership -- will prevail, but human technology is not yet to the point where this can happen, so that the forces that drive markets (greed is the ugly word, desire to get ahead is more pleasant-sounding) must be employed to get people to produce (that is, work).

[White Crane Feather]

I live in an officially "socialist" society that has decided for the time being that markets are necessary and that the good thing about socialism is that regulation of markets is readily accomplished without having to employ legions of lawyers. In the end, though, a more pure socialism -- or something that doesn't even include the concept of ownership -- will prevail, but human technology is not yet to the point where this can happen, so that the forces that drive markets (greed is the ugly word, desire to get ahead is more pleasant-sounding) must be employed to get people to produce (that is, work).

Don't kid your self. The USA is pretty much a socialist country also, we just can't admit it. While spiritually and ethically I think socialism is a wonderful idea, we must pay attention to evidence, Maths, and history. An economic system must not be an ideology/religion based on fuzzy feel good beliefs with no support from actual intelligent research peer review and evidence.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to vist where you live, haveing a passion for pure markets, in places like that they actually exist. Here every tiny thing is regulated and it's getting worse. I have to go to the flee markets to find it.

But let's look at the talley ( for good or Ill). Capitalism...... iPhone's, computers, Internet, just in time inventory, the auto mobile, life saveing technologies, international travel, etc etc etc.

Socialism.... ????? A lot of corruption thats for sure, that's why I am discussted that my country is headed that way. And believe me I'm the most green spiritually connected to the earth and philanthropically minded person you might ever meet. I detest externalities from corporations both on ethical and scientific economic grounds.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Seeker79

[Professor T]

Socialism is only frowned upon because TPTB want it that way imo.. They feed disinformation regarding how societies should be run/managed because it feeds their own agenda to stay in power..

[White Crane Feather]

Socialism is only frowned upon because TPTB want it that way imo.. They feed disinformation regarding how societies should be run/managed because it feeds their own agenda to stay in power..

Ok... People say things like that, but really what have socialist or communist countries produced that benefit the world and improve the standard of living for its people? Who are these powerful people so desperately trying to stay in power... Can anyone name one?

Socialism is frowned upon because of math. Plain and simple. It's not that hard to see what a subsidy does to a supply and demand curve. But id bet most people have bever seen it. Ironically when you look at countries that are "socialist" as compared to the united states that might have a higher standard of living, you will find that they are more capitalistic than the US when it comes to actual laws. Other socioeconomic factors aside.

Does anyone here that is against "capitalism" have a computer or a 401k? Better think hard about that one in the humanity getting dumber thread.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Seeker79

[Professor T]

Ok... People say things like that, but really what have socialist or communist countries produced that benefit the world and improve the standard of living for its people? Who are these powerful people so desperately trying to stay in power... Can anyone name one?

seriously.. Do you honestly believe that nothing benefitial came from communist countries..

Communisim is benefitial in many cases.. Nature is a dictatorship... Honestly I thought you would have known that..

Socialism is frowned upon because of math. Plain and simple. It's not that hard to see what a subsidy does to a supply and demand curve. But id bet most people have bever seen it. Ironically when you look at countries that are "socialist" as compared to the united states that might have a higher standard of living, you will find that they are more capitalistic than the US when it comes to actual laws. Other socioeconomic factors aside.

Not sure I understand this. Then again, I'm no economist.. But to say that Socialism is frowned upon because of math seems to me a rather bold statement based on a single perspective that accounting and money is more important than people..

Does anyone here that is against "capitalism" have a computer or a 401k? Better think hard about that one in the humanity getting dumber thread.

Yup.. that would be me.. except for the 401k thing..

But before this goes any further, let's try to keep this in-line with the OP, or take it to PM..

This thread is about reasons why Humanity is losing intelligence, not about political or social ideaologies which in its self is a propaganda minefield that we are all in some part involved with because we've been roped in to such lines of thought.

[Mr Right Wing]

Every time I have to fight some gawmless cross-eye'd subway caterer who has to be told three times what I want to go on my foot-long I wonder if humanity is getting dumber..

I'm educated yet I shall share an instance where I embaressed myself just for your amusement.

As a teenager I went into my local computer shop and asked for some disks. The counter assistant said sure, would you like them with green stickers or green stickers? Now normally that wouldnt slip past me but it did on that occasion. I stood there deep in thought for a few seconds as I decided if I wanted green or green ones. Then I picked and the counter assistant just had that look on the face that said I'm the dumest fool they've ever met lol.

Oh well I suppose thats what drinking flouridated water does to you!

[No Censorship]

hahaha, now i got it....yeah, well, i sometimes shudder when i hear kids speak, sitting next to me in the tram or so. For me it is hard to tell though if written and spoken language goes down the drain due to increasing stupidity or if it really is just a generation thing going on there.....

I'm from germany, see, and when i was 14 or 15, the word "geil" came up to usage amongst us kids, translating to "cool" or "def" in english. For my parents and ESPECIALLY my Grandma, that was very offensive to hear, because "normally", the word "geil" means "horny" or "lewd". So when i hear kids in that age speak,i bite my tongue and judge them when they are in their 20s....

I'll list some examples. Keep in mind that these kids speak English as a first language. I apologize in advance to British members, but the worst ones seem to be boys and girls from the UK. On the other hand, older British people often sound brilliant.

than for then

man/woman for men/women

your for you're

to for too

I'm referring to consistent instances of borderline illiteracy. I often make careless and stupid mistakes, but their errors are constant. There's a pattern to it. They mess up common sayings too.

[White Crane Feather]

seriously.. Do you honestly believe that nothing benefitial came from communist countries..

Communisim is benefitial in many cases.. Nature is a dictatorship... Honestly I thought you would have known that..

Not sure I understand this. Then again, I'm no economist.. But to say that Socialism is frowned upon because of math seems to me a rather bold statement based on a single perspective that accounting and money is more important than people..

Yup.. that would be me.. except for the 401k thing..

But before this goes any further, let's try to keep this in-line with the OP, or take it to PM..

This thread is about reasons why Humanity is losing intelligence, not about political or social ideaologies which in its self is a propaganda minefield that we are all in some part involved with because we've been roped in to such lines of thought.

"nature is a dictatorship" You are a wise professor, look back on my conversation with frank. You will see that my views are based on exactly that Plus about five years of college and I'll admit possibly some indoctrination .

I'm not saying a person from a communist nation never invented any thing, I'm saying it's the capitalist that brought it to fruit. ( for good or I'll). Capitalists have a tendency to import good ideas then export the marketable format.

"accounting and money" has absolutely nothing to do with it. Utility, however does. Those of us with compassionate minds ( like yours) want the greatest good for the greatest amount of people. the entire "maths" behind economics are not about accounting or money, they are about the greatest amount of utility contributed to society through the actions of individuals. Again look back at my comments about finance and those "economists" that study money. No matter what you do you cannot escape the power that agragate individual choices have on Everybody from the poor to the rich. "nature is --indeed--a dictator", and in every post in every thread you have ever seen me post in I advocate working within the rythems of nature. You cannot escape it no matter how "high" minded you are.

In a large part I think the whole dumming of people ties into all of this. People do not think critically anymore. Mabey they never did.., I don't know. They don't see for themselves and explore their views to the fullest and their actual holistic consequences. There is a cloud over humanity. Tha anima and the ego ultimtely owns us even when we think we are stepping away from it.

[Professor T]

Whew.. Glad that made sense..

Especially the last two sentences.. Between you and Mr Walker I've learned a lot today.. Thanks..

In keeping with the thread though, something that is important to keep in mind is that indoctrination though so-called higher education, university, doctorates, ect.. keeps individuals boxed in to one perspective, or a toe-the-line style of thinking & behavior that effectively limits what people can understand about anything and in many cases everything.. AKA "Dumbing down" though fixed perspectives..

I've seen this first hand with working with actual rocket scientists, who socially and mentally were incapable of operating simple machinery or understanding new tasks given them.. It was actually quite hillarious..

[White Crane Feather]

Whew.. Glad that made sense..

Especially the last two sentences.. Between you and Mr Walker I've learned a lot today.. Thanks..

In keeping with the thread though, something that is important to keep in mind is that indoctrination though so-called higher education, university, doctorates, ect.. keeps individuals boxed in to one perspective, or a toe-the-line style of thinking & behavior that effectively limits what people can understand about anything and in many cases everything.. AKA "Dumbing down" though fixed perspectives..

I've seen this first hand with working with actual rocket scientists, who socially and mentally were incapable of operating simple machinery or understanding new tasks given them.. It was actually quite hillarious..

That is funny. I have seen that aswell. My wife works for one of the largest technology companies in the world managing the flow of chipsets, and yet plugging in a Wii or cable she is completely and totally incompetent. She wouldn't know the difference between the Ethernet plug or the coaxle, yet she can have a conversation with china about their demand for mobile microchips.

Trust me... I have parted ways with my professors ideaologies a long time ago... It is so very obviouse that modern polocy is not addressing economic theory properly especially with externalities and anti competitive practices. I understand the socialist concept. At heart I am one aswell.., native Americans shared every catch and every meal with everyone else. In fact your status was often associated with how well you provided for others and sacrificed your own meals, but unfortunately modern reality often trumps heart and we have an entire world to look after instead of a tribe. The same rules do not apply anymore. We have to be diligent in persuit of actualities and not nominal opinions.

I would gladly change the mode of the world if I could, but I can only effect the Infividual on an individual basis... Ultimately that's how we will indeed save ourselves, but in the meantime we have to work with what we have.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Seeker79

[sutemi]

George Carlin - education and critical thinking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxa5-c3G4qM

'The Earth provides enough for everymans need but not everymans greed' Gandhi

[CrimsonKing]

I think this subject also comes down to what some consider intelligence.Some people are better with modern technology than others,and some are better at critical skills.

I have some knowledge about computers and current tech,but others i am sure on this site blow my limited amount away.Though when talking about the human body and/or ways to heal it,survival skills like how to hunt,fish,grow food,and basically live of the land i would bet i know more than most of the techies.Many now days prefer to specialize in what they learn,i prefer to learn some of everything i can remember lol

[Asadora]

Albert Einstein once said:

"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots."

...and I believe that he was spot on.

Kind Regards.

[onereaderone]

let me tell you a story . once upon a time ,one was with its space, unique and a single being of cell . later that day, meny cells collected togather is the meny of a kind... the meny of a kind was unique and a single being of cells .

later that day the cells on the left became diffrent than the cells of the right ... unique within the meny , collections of uniqueness with in.... then the collective of meny... then the uniqueness of one ... then the collective of meny... then the uniqueness of one... and then the change to the collective of meny... then the change to uniqueness of the one ...

man as the solo act , working as a self complete being with out need of civil contracts ... to ... the team player who works as a member of a unit... to... a civil contract of city and culture .... to ... loyalty and nation being...

we are not getting stupid , we are becoming specialists .... what you see as a weakness , i see as civil glue , binding us togather ... uniqueness explored , held togather by the raw force of needing others for the very air you breath , food you eat , lives played out.... the problem is... we do not have the right to repell those with out the same civil contract ... the preditors who see the civil contract of specialists as a flaw , and the way of the jungle as the true law . it is the history of the human race , the higher evolved beings , being riped to peices by the fools and stupid ... who think being very focused is a flaw...

[Fstop]

Albert Einstein once said:

"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots."

...and I believe that he was spot on.

Kind Regards.

Not that I'm questioning this particular Einstein quote, but has anyone else ever wondered if Einstein really said all the things that get attributed to him on the internet?