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Recent Bill Maher quote on taxes


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#61    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:50 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 25 March 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

I wouldn't enforce. If they don't show up they don't get assistance.
well that is just unfair what do you expect these people to do show some responsibility?

You know what would fix the tax problem? Have every tax payer write a check every week for their taxes and send it in to the IRS. this would clear up alot of problems it would give a boost to the failing snail mail, ti would cause people to see what their tax burden is every week in a physical way not just some numbers subtracted from their check there by causing them to be more concerned where that money is going, and it would cause a complete collapse of our goverment when the majority of the checks bounce because the goverment run school systems churn out people who can't balance a check book.

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread" --Thomas Jefferson(1821)

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#62    Yamato

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:06 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 25 March 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

I wouldn't enforce. If they don't show up they don't get assistance.
In the current environment of chronic inflation coupled with ideas like "taxes for everyone", they'll need that "assistance".   Which flies in the face of the whole purpose of "imposing on them" in the first place.   How about not just taxing them for the work they do in the private sector?  That's their assistance!   Even if the IRS were all you cared about, nothing does away with the IRS better than not having taxes to pay.

You're just creating a public sector replacement for a tax-free private sector solution.  Sorry, but government taking money to give it back under creative new rules is never more efficient than government just getting out of the way in the first place.   It sounds as though some of you are much too punitive towards politically-charged stereotypes of people in your tones here.  

Socking it to the bums with government force in order to help bums with government money is a foolish and wasteful circle.

Edited by Yamato, 26 March 2013 - 04:15 AM.

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#63    Yamato

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:09 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 26 March 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

Their name goes on a list, and when they get in trouble, whatever fines they get has this added on top. It would be too many people to police them. Would people really be more willing to do jail time and risk an even bigger fine, then do a little community service?

I know they are going to Bitsh about it, but these same people will complain no matter what is required of them. All they want is their freebies and to be left alone to their poverty (with cable TV, smartphone and internet, of course)...

Seriously though I'm talking about very little money or community service. So that people are forced to be connected to what they are using/paying for. People that actually pay taxes Think about what their taxes go for. Those that do not pay taxes do Not Think about what taxes are spent on. They have zero resources in the game.
Okay so you've identified a group of "these people".  You're treating them like criminals and suggesting putting them in a cage.  Playing on peoples' willingness to do jail time to be forced into your idea.  How detestable.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#64    DieChecker

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:05 AM

View PostYamato, on 26 March 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

Okay so you've identified a group of "these people".  You're treating them like criminals and suggesting putting them in a cage.  Playing on peoples' willingness to do jail time to be forced into your idea.  How detestable.
:tsu: :tsu: :tsu: :tsu:

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#65    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:17 AM

GE pays taxes on its profits, and can find ways to make profits into not-profits.  The rich can do the same.  You need to tax consumption in some way -- by a revenue tax on companies and with VATs, and the problems are solved.

Trying to "plug loopholes" doesn't work.  They are endless.


#66    DieChecker

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:23 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

GE pays taxes on its profits, and can find ways to make profits into not-profits.  The rich can do the same.  You need to tax consumption in some way -- by a revenue tax on companies and with VATs, and the problems are solved.

Trying to "plug loopholes" doesn't work.  They are endless.
You know what the Liberal problem with that is?? They will say that the Poor spend 100% of their money, while the rich only spend 30% or less. If you make a million dollars a year, just how many houses can you buy. Just how many boats can you buy?

I think it probably is still a good idea, but the majority of liberals will never let it happen.

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#67    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:42 AM

I'm neither liberal nor conservative.  I'm a free-market Communist.


#68    Yamato

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:10 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 26 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

You know what the Liberal problem with that is?? They will say that the Poor spend 100% of their money, while the rich only spend 30% or less. If you make a million dollars a year, just how many houses can you buy.
If you make a million a year you could buy two houses in Portland OR, or about 70-80 houses a year in Detroit MI.   You're talking about "the Liberals" as "they".  Are you not liberal compared to your fellow Oregonians?

The problem with liberals and conservatives is that they're both trying to increase revenue - for government.   How about turning that mindset upside down on its head and opine for decreased government revenue for a change?   I want a balanced budget as much as anyone, but I'd really like to start the process of foreign credit drying up sooner rather than later because the longer it's postponed the more painful it's going to be.   And the longer it's postponed the more the guilty (the Boomers) are going to get away with it, dumping the debt onto the laps of the young.   We're probably going to default on our debt anyway, and sacrifice our currency before we'll ever stop our gross overspending, much less pay off our national debt and save our health care insolvency.   Raising revenue for government is a ruinous bipartisan idea.   Government will take that revenue and spend it all, and then some, on all the money holes it enjoys spending money on.  Always has, still does, always will.   Encouraging it and feeding it doesn't cure our fiscal cancer no matter how politically popular the labels sound and wrapping paper looks.  It'll satisfy some cheap Republican party political rhetoric about class warfare though, more "feel good" fluff for people to grasp onto thinking they're solving something.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#69    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:13 AM

You don't decrease the government's desire for revenue if politicians have to win elections.

The only solution is to take tax rates and put their levels in the hands of an independent agency with fixed terms.


#70    Yamato

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:19 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 March 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

You don't decrease the government's desire for revenue if politicians have to win elections.

The only solution is to take tax rates and put their levels in the hands of an independent agency with fixed terms.
No, you have to make some major presumptions about the politicians to even think that.   If a politician can't win an election by championing an 'End the IRS' platform and with it, the end of the income tax, the problem is the people.  Indoctrinated liberals calling themselves republicans or conservatives, completely unaware they're as complicit and guilty as the moppets across the aisle they love to throw mud at.   Typical, it's the people voting for the government they deserve.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#71    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:20 AM

You won't change the people by preaching at them.  It has to be institutions independent of politics.


#72    Yamato

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:37 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 March 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

You won't change the people by preaching at them.  It has to be institutions independent of politics.
What do you think I'm advocating when I'm the one wanting to put an end to the establishment?   Institutions independent of politics.  It's called the private sector.  Astonishing, I know.   If you live thousands of miles away from the US, you might not understand that a platform that favors the end of the establishment is more popular than ever.   We have a real chance to undo the wrongs our government shafted us with exactly 100 years ago.  You can't just wish institutions into existence; you have to reform the ones you've already got or all you're going to end up doing is growing the bureaucracy, which is eminently easy because bureaucracies only know how to grow, they never shrink on their own accord.

Edited by Yamato, 26 March 2013 - 08:40 AM.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#73    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:43 AM

Actually, dumb as your response sounds, there is some logic in putting tax collection out to bid by the private sector.  The practice got a bad name because Gibbons made it seem so corrupt when the Romans did it, but in fact it generally served them quite well.

But that is the actual collection of taxes.  Someone needs to periodically adjust rates up and down as needed by the economy and the level of government spending, and the political process is way to cumbersome to achieve this even if politicians were all statesmen.  An independent board is needed.


#74    Yamato

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:49 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 March 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Actually, dumb as your response sounds, there is some logic in putting tax collection out to bid by the private sector.  The practice got a bad name because Gibbons made it seem so corrupt when the Romans did it, but in fact it generally served them quite well.

But that is the actual collection of taxes.  Someone needs to periodically adjust rates up and down as needed by the economy and the level of government spending, and the political process is way to cumbersome to achieve this even if politicians were all statesmen.  An independent board is needed.
Dumb?  You sound out of touch and unable to understand the value of smaller government.   Singing to the establishment choir about increased revenue, you're going to get bigger government. <-- Dumb.

The federal budget should fit within a trillion dollars.  A few hundred billion for military, a few for infrastructure, a few for criminal/contract justice and not much else.   So long as we think the actual collection of taxes is necessary we might as well preface our positions with being at the mercy of the government's "desires" as you have.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#75    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:20 AM

Dream on.





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