172 replies to this topic

[OverSword]

I believe TPB want us all to conform to Islam.  The illuminutty are patient and are willing to wait.  Remember, the definition of Islam is submission.  Once they have us all worshiping thier Alah we will be bound by capital law to obey.

[pallidin]

And if any Sharia radical EVER comes to my home here in America, trying to force their barbaric ways, I will shoot them and bury them with a pig.

Sorry, Mods, delete if you feel necessary.

Edited by pallidin, 18 January 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[Helen of Annoy]

OverSword, on 18 January 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

Many other Islamic nations that do not apply Sharia (such as Azerbaijan, Albania, Bosnia, Uzbekistan, and Tajikstan) have large portions of their population who do want it applied or who actively seek to abide by it extra-legally.
http://wiki.answers...._use_Sharia_Law

Citation needed!

There’s no significant let alone large portion of population in Bosnia that wants or actively seek Sharia.
I’m pretty sure about Albania too.
Bosniaks have their religion and their tradition, but I have never met a Bosniak with more than one wife. While I have met a Christian who lived with two women in the same household and regarded them both his wives. And so on.

I think people in this part of the world are mostly able to tell the difference between their faith and civil law.

[OverSword]

Helen of Annoy, on 18 January 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Citation needed!

There’s no significant let alone large portion of population in Bosnia that wants or actively seek Sharia.
I’m pretty sure about Albania too.
Bosniaks have their religion and their tradition, but I have never met a Bosniak with more than one wife. While I have met a Christian who lived with two women in the same household and regarded them both his wives. And so on.

I think people in this part of the world are mostly able to tell the difference between their faith and civil law.

You can be be-headed for lying Helen!

[Helen of Annoy]

OverSword, on 18 January 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

You can be be-headed for lying Helen!

Theoretically, yes. But theoretically I could be burnt at stake if theoretically far right comes to power and lets few bishops stuck in medieval times loose.
An outsider enemy would annoy me less than my own domestic morons, probably because a stranger may only be an enemy, while my own kind is also commiting a full treason by turning against its own people... but I digress.

There's no "world" to declare a war on anyone or anything simply because the world does not exist as an entity. We're still bunch of tribes that merge and diverge... take a look at any sport event, let alone politics.

[spud the mackem]

These Islamic guys think differently to Western People, Life is cheap to them, as they prove with Suicide bombers, they dont care who is killed or maimed, including children, because they think that to die in this way is glorious to Allah, and Paradise awaits. I dont think that we shall ever win against Al- Qaida as its now world wide,and their children are raised and educated to hate everything western, and you wont recognise a terrorist until he decides to "take out", a few dozen innocents of any nationality, even their own, on his way to He---sorry Paradise. I guess we just have to live with these morons.

[.AKUMA.]

OverSword, on 18 January 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

I believe TPB want us all to conform to Islam.  The illuminutty are patient and are willing to wait.  Remember, the definition of Islam is submission.  Once they have us all worshiping thier Alah we will be bound by capital law to obey.

Just to clarify on this I did a little bit of research on the definition of islam just to prove you wrong.
Arabic has many roots words and often clusters of other words are put together to form one word to describe them all.
Obediance
Submission
Sincerity
Peace
Combine these words together in arabic and you get the word islam!

Dont you ever wonder why muslims must learn the quran in arabic, and not translations?

[Yamato]

pallidin, on 18 January 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

When there is enough nations to declare radical islam a functional "cancer" then, there will be concerted action.

Curiously, we may not have to wait very long... radical Islamic's seem to be drawing a great deal of attention to themselve's, likely to their demise.

Who want's to vacation in Egypt now, or any of a number of Islamic lead countries, while you might be kidnapped, held for ransom, or executed.

No country has declared Islam a functional cancer, so your "the world" doesn't come anywhere close to my "global war on terror" where I can at least name the countries and spell out their actions.

Why just "Islamic radicals"?   Why not all forms of terrorism regardless of its religious or irreligious nature?

There are already global efforts to address this.
http://www.un.org/te...terrorism.shtml

What you're asking for is a very specific attention focused on a singular ideology, when the problem is actually global in scale and already enjoys efforts far more widespread than just the few nations you said it does.

Insofar as this discussion even belongs on the Middle East forum, we've already had global coalitions taking concerted action, against Muslim countries specifically for over 20 years now.   Obama is bombing five countries in the Middle East.  What do you want?   More of the same?   Should more countries of the world follow Obama's example?

[and then]

Yamato, on 19 January 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

No country has declared Islam a functional cancer, so your "the world" doesn't come anywhere close to my "global war on terror" where I can at least name the countries and spell out their actions.

Why just "Islamic radicals"?   Why not all forms of terrorism regardless of its religious or irreligious nature?

There are already global efforts to address this.
http://www.un.org/te...terrorism.shtml

What you're asking for is a very specific attention focused on a singular ideology, when the problem is actually global in scale and already enjoys efforts far more widespread than just the few nations you said it does.

Insofar as this discussion even belongs on the Middle East forum, we've already had global coalitions taking concerted action, against Muslim countries specifically for over 20 years now.   Obama is bombing five countries in the Middle East.  What do you want?   More of the same?   Should more countries of the world follow Obama's example?

Those global efforts are probably effective to some degree.  Quantifying this is difficult though.  Yam there is no doubt that this ideology is a scourge to free peoples around the world.  It just IS.  We in the western tradition will either fight it to a standstill or it will permeate every aspect of our culture until it is victorious.  If that doesn't seem to be something worth fighting for to you then your words supporting freedom ring a bit hollow.

[redhen]

You're going to have a hard time convincing Russia and China to take action against some of their best clients. Don't forget who sold these Islamic states most of their military hardware.  There have long been been Soviet/Russian/Chinese/Cuban "advisers" and troops in these countries.  And they're still there selling them stuff http://www.guardian....litary-presence

"The enemy of enemy is my friend."

Oh yeah, tell North Korea    to knock it off too.

[Likely Guy]

redhen, on 19 January 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

You're going to have a hard time convincing Russia and China to take action against some of their best clients. Don't forget who sold these Islamic states most of their military hardware.  There have long been been Soviet/Russian/Chinese/Cuban "advisers" and troops in these countries.  And they're still there selling them stuff http://www.guardian....litary-presence

"The enemy of enemy is my friend."

Oh yeah, tell North Korea    to knock it off too.

The western countries don't arm islamist states? I think not.

http://www.thenation...-gulf-countries

Edit: The West, as well as Russia and China hope that this will 'just' be an Islamist Civil War.

War's already been declared. It's just that no one's decided who's on which side yet.

And the three aforementioned parties will financially benefit, or have the whole thing explode in their face.

Edited by Likely Guy, 19 January 2013 - 02:49 AM.

[and then]

Likely Guy, on 19 January 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

The western countries don't arm islamist states? I think not.

http://www.thenation...-gulf-countries

Edit: The West, as well as Russia and China hope that this will 'just' be an Islamist Civil War.

War's already been declared. It's just that no one's decided who's on which side yet.

And the three aforementioned parties will financially benefit, or have the whole thing explode in their face.

I'm of similar mind as this.  I think the politics of the past where large powers play other nations like chess pieces for profit has the real potential to get completely out of hand in dealing with THIS particular menace.  The Russian stance on Syria is an example.  They cannot walk away and they also cannot jump in and  force a solution more to their liking.  Dealing with people who don't care about money or land or fame and who are truly willing to die for their belief system is a task that many nation's leaders are incapable of IMO.  A miscalculation can have devastating global consequences.  Syria again for example - if Assad thinks he has lost and is going to have a party like Gaddafi's final adventure then he might very well launch as many chemical laden scuds as possible against Israeli cities - knowing that Israel will annihilate Syrian Damascus in retaliation.  These people at the highest levels are riding herd on the real crazies and they aren't going to forever be capable of controlling the true believers.

[shadowlark]

pallidin, on 18 January 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

I find Islamic radicals becoming far more agressive, and completely intolerant of anything against their own beliefs, such as destroying World Heritage sites{aka Historical monuments/sites) in some of their occupied locations, and forcefully submiting harsh Sharia law towards citizens.

Your thoughts?

My thoughts: Sounds like radical Christians in the US trying to push their beliefs on everyone else - i.e. banning abortions, opposing gay marriage, etc.

pallidin, on 18 January 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

And if any Sharia radical EVER comes to my home here in America, trying to force their barbaric ways, I will shoot them and bury them with a pig.

Sorry, Mods, delete if you feel necessary.

But you're ok with radical Christians forcing their beliefs on you and everyone else?

I'm not defending radical Islamists, but I would like to point out that everything you view as bad about Islam, happened to Christianity on a similar timeline. Islam is about 1400 years old. What were radical Christians doing at a similar point in Christanity's history? The crusades had already happened. What else did they do? Refuse rights to women? Oh yeah, there was the whole Spanish Inquisition thing.  It's like everything radical Islamists are doing now, radical Christians have already done. It's just that, with technology, the Islamists have the ability to do damage on a wider scale.

Again, not justifying, just pointing out that it's not the first, and probably not the last religion to go through this.

[Ugly1]

shadowlark, on 19 January 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

My thoughts: Sounds like radical Christians in the US trying to push their beliefs on everyone else - i.e. banning abortions, opposing gay marriage, etc.



But you're ok with radical Christians forcing their beliefs on you and everyone else?

I'm not defending radical Islamists, but I would like to point out that everything you view as bad about Islam, happened to Christianity on a similar timeline. Islam is about 1400 years old. What were radical Christians doing at a similar point in Christanity's history? The crusades had already happened. What else did they do? Refuse rights to women? Oh yeah, there was the whole Spanish Inquisition thing.  It's like everything radical Islamists are doing now, radical Christians have already done. It's just that, with technology, the Islamists have the ability to do damage on a wider scale.

Again, not justifying, just pointing out that it's not the first, and probably not the last religion to go through this.

So let me get this straight. A country predominately christian that holds voting every x amount of years to oppose things such as gay rights, or abortion is Radical? I guess radical is in the eyes of the beholder. Some see radical as getting your hands cut off for stealing, girls getting imprisoned after being gang raped, honor killings, and so much more but I guess voting could be considered radical. Great point!

Edited by Ugly1, 19 January 2013 - 04:14 AM.

[and then]

shadowlark, on 19 January 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

My thoughts: Sounds like radical Christians in the US trying to push their beliefs on everyone else - i.e. banning abortions, opposing gay marriage, etc.



But you're ok with radical Christians forcing their beliefs on you and everyone else?

I'm not defending radical Islamists, but I would like to point out that everything you view as bad about Islam, happened to Christianity on a similar timeline. Islam is about 1400 years old. What were radical Christians doing at a similar point in Christanity's history? The crusades had already happened. What else did they do? Refuse rights to women? Oh yeah, there was the whole Spanish Inquisition thing.  It's like everything radical Islamists are doing now, radical Christians have already done. It's just that, with technology, the Islamists have the ability to do damage on a wider scale.

Again, not justifying, just pointing out that it's not the first, and probably not the last religion to go through this.

It never ends.  There's always someone who trots out the crusades or the inquisition to justify - JUSTIFY - the behavior of militant Islam.  Has it ever occurred to you that we, as a planet, might not HAVE the luxury of the unfolding "timeline" of moderation for these crazies?  That with the presence of nuclear weapons they (and WE) might not survive to see them come to their senses?  And a last point - Christians who committed such atrocities did so in the name of their religion but they most definitely did NOT do the will of Christ.  They eventually did repent and do the right thing for the most part.  The difference is that Muslims ARE obeying the letter of their prophet's laws.  So for them to moderate will essentially mean turning from the written word of their faith.  If that happened then their faith would not exist any longer.  I don't mean to come off sounding angry or spiteful.  It's just that this particular argument has many holes in it and I personally believe in the eschatology of this age we are in.  Meaning that prophecy is unfolding all around anyone who is willing to see it.  It's kind of amusing to me that so many in a place like UM can easily accept UFO's, ghosts and the paranormal of all stripes but roll their eyes at the scriptures.  They don't even see their own biases.