What was the tree of knowledge of g & e

[White Crane Feather]

What is the tree symbolizing? Anyone have any info on context?

[Its Mii]

I'm not completely sure but I did read somewhere that the tree represents all the beauty and bountifulness in life and the roots represent all the things that we don't see but yet are as large or even larger than the tree.

Something like that.... I had seen a picture or something that expressed this, I'll look it up. Maybe I can find it.

[Mr Right Wing]

What is the tree symbolizing? Anyone have any info on context?

Yes but to understand the meaning of it all I need to change how you see Christainity.

The first Bibles written in Hebrew are different from the ones we use today. Some differences arise from errors in translation and some exist because the Bible has been edited by the Church.

The first big difference is that the God of the Hebrew Bible is a hermaphrodite not a bearded old man. The Hebrew Bible says that in addition to God having both male and female genitalia Adam does too (Adam was created in Gods image). In order to learn about the male and female roles Adam had the female parts removed from him and turned into Eve.

Such graphic talk about sex was deemed unacceptable by the Church so it was removed and analogies used instead.

Gods commandment to Adam and Eve was that they could have sex in the Garden of Eden but werent allowed to have orgasams. The reason being is sexual energy feeds the soul and when the sexual energy is dispersed through orgasam the soul dies. Adam and Eve had orgasams, their souls died and God therefore ejected them from the Garden of Eden.

The tree of Good and Evil is symbolic of orgasam. The purpose of life is to go through the rebirth of your soul which Christains call being born again.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[JayMark]

I will tell you how I see it metaphorically.

The tree represents life (the soul, spirit etc), the serpent represents DNA and the overall represents our self-awarness of the physical universe (consciousness + body).

The serpent represents evil because DNA is the starting point of our biological life so incarnating a physical body in this universe inevitably leads to the subjective awarness of good and evil (bad).

So the whole scene could represent us going from Pure Spirit (collective consciousness) which is Pure Love in essence to incarnating a physical body in a universe where duality is inevitable and onmipresent (positive vs negative, good vs bad, masculine vs feminine, light vs darkness etc). So our physical incarnation could also represent the point where the notion of good vs bad took place hence the "birth of evil".

My thoughts. Just came to my mind while reading the title. I will post more if I think of something else.

Peace.

[eight bits]

Here's a link to a thread from about 2 1/2 years ago on the meaning of the Hebrew idiom, "the knowledge of good and evil."

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=161190

Hope that that helps with your inquiries.

[Mr Right Wing]

Here's a link to a thread from about 2 1/2 years ago on the meaning of the Hebrew idiom, "the knowledge of good and evil."

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=161190

Hope that that helps with your inquiries.

The fall of man isnt about good or evil.

Its about man losing touch with his higher consciousness. Once he's lost contact with it he becomes a mere animal in his eyes which leads to sin and suffering.

Higher consciousness can only be accessed by accumulating sexual energy. Sexual energy can only be accumulated by withstaining from orgasm which is why priests dont have sex. Once enough has been accumulated the higher consciousness awakens. This is what being born again is about.

You dont go to heaven by doing good deeds and not doing bad ones. The only way into heaven is to be born again.

[+and-then]

Yes but to understand the meaning of it all I need to change how you see Christainity.

The first Bibles written in Hebrew are different from the ones we use today. Some differences arise from errors in translation and some exist because the Bible has been edited by the Church.

The first big difference is that the God of the Hebrew Bible is a hermaphrodite not a bearded old man. The Hebrew Bible says that in addition to God having both male and female genitalia Adam does too (Adam was created in Gods image). In order to learn about the male and female roles Adam had the female parts removed from him and turned into Eve.

Such graphic talk about sex was deemed unacceptable by the Church so it was removed and analogies used instead.

Gods commandment to Adam and Eve was that they could have sex in the Garden of Eden but werent allowed to have orgasams. The reason being is sexual energy feeds the soul and when the sexual energy is dispersed through orgasam the soul dies. Adam and Eve had orgasams, their souls died and God therefore ejected them from the Garden of Eden.

The tree of Good and Evil is symbolic of orgasam. The purpose of life is to go through the rebirth of your soul which Christains call being born again.

[White Crane Feather]

The fall of man isnt about good or evil.

Its about man losing touch with his higher consciousness. Once he's lost contact with it he becomes a mere animal in his eyes which leads to sin and suffering.

Higher consciousness can only be accessed by accumulating sexual energy. Sexual energy can only be accumulated by withstaining from orgasm which is why priests dont have sex. Once enough has been accumulated the higher consciousness awakens. This is what being born again is about.

You dont go to heaven by doing good deeds and not doing bad ones. The only way into heaven is to be born again.

No sneezing then ehh? ( maby that's why they say bless you" Does masterbation count?

Edited March 29, 2012 by Seeker79

[Copen]

What is the tree symbolizing? Anyone have any info on context?

According to the Bible it is the source of spiritual knowledge of what is good and what is evil. Its fruit made one spiritually wise. Gaining this knowledge was good for growing Fruit of the Spirit as listed in Galatians 5:22. And it caused their eyes to be opened and to be ashamed of their nakedness, which they were not ashamed of before. So the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil represents the Word-the Bible, the source of true spiritual knowledge. The serpent said when Eva ate the fruit her eyes would be opened and she would become like gods knowing good and evil. (Please note the little "g" and the "s" for plural)

Sure enough, God said, "the man is become as one of us to know good and evil." Who were "us"? The Triune God. They had become like gods. just as the serpent said, they became as gods. Now, the serpent also thought they would die physically from this tree. God does not lie. He said in the self same day they ate the fruit they would die. They didn't die physically. That means they died some other way. They didn't die spiritually. God never stopped talking to them. Salvation is eternal -- and not by ones works. So they didn't die spiritually. Therefore, their souls died to sin that very self same day they ate the fruit.

Gods (little "g" plural "s") is what prophets and priests were sometimes called because they had the knowledge of good and evil. Remember when Prophet Samuel was called up out of Paradise by the witch for King Saul? What she saw beyond the grave with Samuel in Paradise was gods. Psalms 82:6 says that gods are children of the Most High.

So Eva was not hoping to be worshipped. She wanted spiritual wisdom. And she got it. Armed with knowledge, God ascended back into heaven.

The whole earth was not cursed. All creation was not cursed. Once God curses something it is cursed forever. The ground where the serpent and the tree were was cursed. That is the very same spot Jesus hung from a tree and fulfilled the saying, "Cursed is everyone who hangs from a tree." All the curse was put on Jesus at that cursed spot. Having paid the price for sins, Jesus ascended back into heaven.

God bless us all is my prayer.

[White Crane Feather]

Why and how is the ground cursed? Why is it ok to be naked one moment but not the next? Why should anyone be ashammed to be naked?

It dosn't sound right..

Does any one have anymore scholarlly interpretations. oh..Ill try the Oxford press.. I have copy somewhere. Keep it comeing though

Edited March 30, 2012 by Seeker79

[+Paranoid Android]

I think the symbolism is made clear in the name - the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God as king gave orders to Adam - work the ground, do anything you like, but don't eat from this tree. To follow God's commands is to do "good". To not follow them is to do "evil". By eating from the tree, Adam gained the knowledge of what it was to follow God and to disobey God. One path led to life, the other to death. The moral for us - follow God, for that leads to life and not to death.

[+Paranoid Android]

Yes but to understand the meaning of it all I need to change how you see Christainity.

The first Bibles written in Hebrew are different from the ones we use today. Some differences arise from errors in translation and some exist because the Bible has been edited by the Church.

The first big difference is that the God of the Hebrew Bible is a hermaphrodite not a bearded old man. The Hebrew Bible says that in addition to God having both male and female genitalia Adam does too (Adam was created in Gods image). In order to learn about the male and female roles Adam had the female parts removed from him and turned into Eve.

Such graphic talk about sex was deemed unacceptable by the Church so it was removed and analogies used instead.

Gods commandment to Adam and Eve was that they could have sex in the Garden of Eden but werent allowed to have orgasams. The reason being is sexual energy feeds the soul and when the sexual energy is dispersed through orgasam the soul dies. Adam and Eve had orgasams, their souls died and God therefore ejected them from the Garden of Eden.

The tree of Good and Evil is symbolic of orgasam. The purpose of life is to go through the rebirth of your soul which Christains call being born again.

Do you perhaps have a link where we can find this information? Ancient Hebrew sources that make this absolutely clear that this is what all Hebrews believed then, and whether it is what modern Jews still believe today!

Thanks

[3.0]

The Tree of Knowledge, Tree of Life, and the serpent with Adam and Eve can be read as a parable. (But, a parable that really happened) It's purpose is to teach us something about our origins, and why we and the world we live in are the way we are. The serpent is an instrument of our freewill; the trees the choices between good and evil. The serpent made freewill possible; and the act of chooosing between good and evil became/becomes ours! We weren't forced in our choices by God or Lucifer, but we were tempted. The serpent was the catalyst.

[eight bits]

PA

In looking at the narrow question posed in the OP, we are dealing with a Hebrew idiom. And idioms, by their very nature, withhold support from

I think the symbolism is made clear in the name

I know that you inhabit a body of flesh, but I do not have carnal knowledge of you. The French call that usual outcome of sexual congress that so preoccupies our fellow poster "the little death." Yet many French people survive the experience.

The "symbolism" is equally clear in both those idioms. That is, the words are clear only in retrospect. If you already know what the phrase means, then you can see (sort of) how they came up with those words. In prospect, when you're trying to figure out the reference? Fat chance. So, too, in the Hebrew case.

God as king gave orders to Adam

If you say so. My text has neither a command, nor a recitation that God will kill his creations, only that they will die, as one of the commentators to the blog entry I cited concurs. It could be that the fruit itself renders an alteration of the couple's relationship with God inevitable.

I would go a step farther. God could hardly be less plain that he is of two minds about that fruit. If you'd rather say almost the same thing by using the words "He is testing humans," then that's fine with me. He is still dividing himself from them. He refrains from acting himself, while the humans, of necessity, must come to one action apiece. Each will eat or will refuse to eat.

Serpent provides salience, not temptation. The people must be decisive where God can be ambivalent. Their expulsion from the garden becomes inevitable as soon as the question is posed, whichever way they answer.

In the event, they find out first that they are independent of God, and then when God confronts them in their fear, they find out that they are independent of each other. The "one flesh" of chapter 2 quickly becomes the Man blaming his wife, hoping to save his hide, regardless of what happens to her.

None of this requires the fruit itself to do anything. It obviously doesn't confer Solomonic wisdom. Solomon would notice that the First Couple has God's ego-self, the maker of terribly important plans, by the short curlies. It is breathtakingly obvious that the smart play, and the decent play, is to stand together, and offer settlement, respectfully but firmly.

"You may kill us where we stand or you may live with us as the gods which we are and whom you have made. Teach us what you know, Father." Odds are good that God won't hit the reset button. Part of him wants this outcome, you might as well play for it. He can have a very pleasant role as elder god and teacher, but only if there are younger gods to teach.

[Leonardo]

Here's a link to a thread from about 2 1/2 years ago on the meaning of the Hebrew idiom, "the knowledge of good and evil."

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=161190

Hope that that helps with your inquiries.

I hadn't read that thread, eb. Thanks for linking it.

To you and Seeker, my own interpretation is somewhat different to Prof Cook's (what a surprise! ) . The tale, imo, refers to the phenomenon of self-awareness. I also don't agree with Prof Cook that the uses of the same idiom in various place of scripture, are necessarily referring to the same attributes of God which we "are like".

After all, does 1 Kings 3:12 not relate God saying...

lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

If the use of the idiom was the same among the various times it appears, then God would be lying here - as surely Adam and Eve would have been exactly like Solomon.

I see the use in 1 Kings to relate to empathy, rather than self-awareness.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Leonardo

[Fergus]

If the tree is taken as a literal interpretation that gives knowledge of good and bad, why is the tree present again in revelation? It would seem at that point everyone has that knowledge already. This makes me think the tree represents something else, if it is still needed after the new heaven and new earth are present.

[eight bits]

Hey, Leo

1 Kings 3: 5-15 is a dream, labeled as such front (at 5) and back (at 15). So, while the verses can be informative about what the words used in the passage mean, there is no reason to exclude that Solomon's dream might include a God who was more flattering than candid.

There is even some chilling irony to God's dream-speech. 1 Kings 3: 12, indeed, but suppose we put the emphasis elsewhere.

I now do as you request. I give you a heart so wise and discerning that there has never been anyone like you until now, nor after you will there be anyone to equal you.

For all Solomon's dreamt-of wisdom, his kingdom collapsed shortly into his son's reign. The split was much hastened by the heavy taxes needed for the Wise King to "finish building his own house, and the house of the LORD, and the wall around Jerusalem." Those benefits accrued mainly to Judea, but the bill was sent to the northern tribes, who went their own way rather than pay.

A fool could have seen that coming. There definitely is irony in the dream. It isn't a literal specification of Solomon's distinctiveness.

Even taking the revelation at face value, however, Adam and Eve weren't royalty, judged nobody, and if they were heads of any people, it was a people only too easily "numbered or counted." Solomon is unprecedented in what he can do with his knowledge of good and evil. He needn't also be unique in simply having the quality for God's statement to be true.

I am not at all opposed to placing great weight on self-awareness as a component of discernment. I am comfortable, however, that Professor Cook has properly used the evidence furnished by the description of Solomon's dream.

[Leonardo]

Hey, Leo

1 Kings 3: 5-15 is a dream, labeled as such front (at 5) and back (at 15). So, while the verses can be informative about what the words used in the passage mean, there is no reason to exclude that Solomon's dream might include a God who was more flattering than candid.

There is even some chilling irony to God's dream-speech. 1 Kings 3: 12, indeed, but suppose we put the emphasis elsewhere.

I now do as you request. I give you a heart so wise and discerning that there has never been anyone like you until now, nor after you will there be anyone to equal you.

For all Solomon's dreamt-of wisdom, his kingdom collapsed shortly into his son's reign. The split was much hastened by the heavy taxes needed for the Wise King to "finish building his own house, and the house of the LORD, and the wall around Jerusalem." Those benefits accrued mainly to Judea, but the bill was sent to the northern tribes, who went their own way rather than pay.

A fool could have seen that coming. There definitely is irony in the dream. It isn't a literal specification of Solomon's distinctiveness.

A fair analysis, eb, when considering the writing as an historical lesson.

Even taking the revelation at face value, however, Adam and Eve weren't royalty, judged nobody, and if they were heads of any people, it was a people only too easily "numbered or counted." Solomon is unprecedented in what he can do with his knowledge of good and evil. He needn't also be unique in simply having the quality for God's statement to be true.

I am not at all opposed to placing great weight on self-awareness as a component of discernment. I am comfortable, however, that Professor Cook has properly used the evidence furnished by the description of Solomon's dream.

If we are to take these various passages at their face-value, however, and not attribute their writing to being (allegorical) lessons based on either a real, remembered or imagined history, what discernment did Adam and Eve exhibit as a result of their feast? I do not read they are granted Solomon's wisdom, or understanding?

[Mr Right Wing]

Do you perhaps have a link where we can find this information? Ancient Hebrew sources that make this absolutely clear that this is what all Hebrews believed then, and whether it is what modern Jews still believe today!

Thanks

Link 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ru4s0TgXvc

Link 2 - http://www.anunda.com/paradigm/nonduality.htm

Gods name YHVH (pronounced Jehovah) is a non duality of male and female. God is both male and female.

Genesis - Modern Genesis tells us God created the first man in his image. Hebrew Genesis says God created the first human in his image. A transalation error giving the impression the first person was male. The first human was not male but a non duality of both male and female (in Gods image). The female was seperated out of this non duality creating a man and women as seperate entities.

Link 3 - http://www.mainemediaresources.com/mpl_apple.htm

I've quoted out the part of interest -

Sexual Interpretation: The Eden story may also be read as the discovery not of man’s ethical or intellectual knowledge, but of his sexuality. This is suggested by the Hebrew word for “knowledge” ( דעת ), which has the meaning of experience, especially of sexual experience. Note that the story of the expulsion from Eden begins with a discovery of nakedness and sexual shame (Gen 3:7). Reading the tale in this light we see a link between the Tree of (Sexual) Knowledge and the Tree of Life. The latter, whose fruit would have bestowed earthly immortality, is no longer accessible. Man must now perpetuate his species through procreation, in the same way as other creatures do.6

The sexual interpretation is furthered by the Gnostics, who believe the “tree of knowledge” was the sexual climax. The Hebrew word for Eden, is עדן ay’den, which means “pleasure, voluptuous, delightful.” which suggests that in the Garden there already existed a perpetuating state of pleasure, relaxation and bliss—all attributes of the climax—but that as quasi spiritual/physical creatures, the orgasm (i.e. the fruit of the tree of knowledge) was to be avoided because it would upset that state or condition that they enjoyed.

Finale - Adam and Eve fell because their souls could only stay alive off sexual energy. When they had an orgasm they lost their sexual energy so their souls died. God ejected them out of the Garden of Eden as punishment.

The purpose of life is for the soul to be reborn so you can enter back into the Garden of Eden.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Beany]

I'm guessing the tree of good & evil has its genesis in the tree of life, an idea/symbol that predates Christianity and is important to many different cultures/spiritual traditions. The beauty of symbols is that they say so much without words, and each of us takes them in in a way that is highly personal & meaningful to us. They're a way of expressing the metaphysical in a physical way. And who doesn't love a tree? We've climbed them, pruned them, watered them, sat under their shade, let them shelter us, and if you were a scout, probably collected their leaves for a badge. Coming back as a tree seems like a pretty good deal to me.

[Mr Right Wing]

I'm guessing the tree of good & evil has its genesis in the tree of life, an idea/symbol that predates Christianity and is important to many different cultures/spiritual traditions. The beauty of symbols is that they say so much without words, and each of us takes them in in a way that is highly personal & meaningful to us. They're a way of expressing the metaphysical in a physical way. And who doesn't love a tree? We've climbed them, pruned them, watered them, sat under their shade, let them shelter us, and if you were a scout, probably collected their leaves for a badge. Coming back as a tree seems like a pretty good deal to me.

The symbology of snakes, trades etc is there in most religions.

[Beany]

Yes, although in some traditions serpents are symbols of new life/regeneration, as in the snake shedding it's old skin, and the effort it requires to do so. Sometimes the serpent is drawn with an egg in its mouth, emphasizing the aspect of new life/new beginnings. Snakes and women both emerged from the Garden of Eden story with tarnished reputations, both undeserved, IMHO.

[Beany]

Link 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ru4s0TgXvc

Link 2 - http://www.anunda.com/paradigm/nonduality.htm

Gods name YHVH (pronounced Jehovah) is a non duality of male and female. God is both male and female.

Genesis - Modern Genesis tells us God created the first man in his image. Hebrew Genesis says God created the first human in his image. A transalation error giving the impression the first person was male. The first human was not male but a non duality of both male and female (in Gods image). The female was seperated out of this non duality creating a man and women as seperate entities.

Link 3 - http://www.mainemediaresources.com/mpl_apple.htm

I've quoted out the part of interest -

Sexual Interpretation: The Eden story may also be read as the discovery not of man’s ethical or intellectual knowledge, but of his sexuality. This is suggested by the Hebrew word for “knowledge” ( דעת ), which has the meaning of experience, especially of sexual experience. Note that the story of the expulsion from Eden begins with a discovery of nakedness and sexual shame (Gen 3:7). Reading the tale in this light we see a link between the Tree of (Sexual) Knowledge and the Tree of Life. The latter, whose fruit would have bestowed earthly immortality, is no longer accessible. Man must now perpetuate his species through procreation, in the same way as other creatures do.6

The sexual interpretation is furthered by the Gnostics, who believe the “tree of knowledge” was the sexual climax. The Hebrew word for Eden, is עדן ay’den, which means “pleasure, voluptuous, delightful.” which suggests that in the Garden there already existed a perpetuating state of pleasure, relaxation and bliss—all attributes of the climax—but that as quasi spiritual/physical creatures, the orgasm (i.e. the fruit of the tree of knowledge) was to be avoided because it would upset that state or condition that they enjoyed.

Finale - Adam and Eve fell because their souls could only stay alive off sexual energy. When they had an orgasm they lost their sexual energy so their souls died. God ejected them out of the Garden of Eden as punishment.

The purpose of life is for the soul to be reborn so you can enter back into the Garden of Eden.

I've always been a big fan of procreation, myself.

[ChloeB]

Yes, although in some traditions serpents are symbols of new life/regeneration, as in the snake shedding it's old skin, and the effort it requires to do so. Sometimes the serpent is drawn with an egg in its mouth, emphasizing the aspect of new life/new beginnings. Snakes and women both emerged from the Garden of Eden story with tarnished reputations, both undeserved, IMHO.

Very true, Beany, snake on a stick is a recurring them throughout the bible, thing is Jesus is another symbol of the same, died to be born anew, given new life, eternal life, etc.

John 3:14-16

King James Version (KJV)

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[Beany]

Very true, Beany, snake on a stick is a recurring them throughout the bible, thing is Jesus is another symbol of the same, died to be born anew, given new life, eternal life, etc.

John 3:14-16

King James Version (KJV)

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

I like this idea, I think partly because the sybolism is universal and not excusive. So how do you see that fitting in with the whole temptation thing and the idea of Eve/woman as a temptress/instrument of the devil? Or does it?