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Forced religion

forced religion

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#76    Orcseeker

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:13 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 19 November 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:



Kidnap them and treat them all?   lol..  Just kidding.. so tell me how do you get them all into treatment?   Who pays for all of this ?

Do you not think it will cause more trouble than it's worth ?

Like I was saying, extremist behaviour from both sides generally leads to an even worse off situation. Have them admitted just like any other mentally Ill person is these days.

Who pays for all this? Just a few more mentally Ill in the current system already implemented. Tax payers.

Well you asked me for a solution and here is what I think would be the best way to go about it. But if all these people are so worried about these extremists and how they will kill people/blow things up (honesty I think it is mostly fear driven media attention towards targeting religion) then a human life lost does not carry a price.

Just like what happened at the batman premier in America, if we even improved education for those who were mentally ill and he could have been admitted before doing the shooting. Another shooting was foiled recently because the mother alerted authorities and it was avoided.

The problem is, the white guy does it, mentally ill (as it should be labelled). The black guy does it (gang member/thug). An Arab guy does it (radical extremist).

I don't think we need to fork out billions to reduce this problem. But going by the governments spending management we may do so.


#77    Orcseeker

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:15 AM

View Postfreetoroam, on 19 November 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:


Here in England we have problems sending certain people with radical extremist tendencies back to their own countries, can you imagine telling they have to go on a training course, and will have to be screened  (which is not Pakistan  related) ?

I don't think anyone in a healthy state of mind would have radical extremist tendencies. We should be looking at this as more of a mental illness. Provide education to those that "follow the herd" and encourage family members to admit those who show these signs.


#78    Mr Walker

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:51 AM

View PostJGirl, on 19 November 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

i used to go to church and i used to take my children with me. when the time came that they didn't want to go, that was the last time they did.
i would never force a child to believe something just because i did. i do think it's important to get them started on their own spiritual journey, but where that leads is entirely up to them.
Actually i bet you would try to "force" them to believe a lot of things you do, like being honest and not hurting others, for example, but you make an exception about religious beliefs.
For example, i would "force" a son of mine to respect  and love women, and if he couldnt, then I would not have him in my home. (not talking about sexual love here just the love and respect due to women by men)

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

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#79    GreenmansGod

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

Walker you can't force your kids to do anything. You can teach, lead and set an example, but force, not really in they end they do what they want.  All you really can hope for is you have laid out the ground work, so they can reason it out for themselves.

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#80    freetoroam

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:31 PM

View PostOrcseeker, on 20 November 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

That depends on the individual. For example, the religion grew to an obsession and that grew from there due to their susceptibility to mental illness. Or they were already mentally ill and their radical take on their newfound religion is not exactly doing them any favours in their current mental state either.
Oh ok.
Well then....what Beckys-mom said. :tu:

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#81    Mr Walker

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 20 November 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Walker you can't force your kids to do anything. You can teach, lead and set an example, but force, not really in they end they do what they want.  All you really can hope for is you have laid out the ground work, so they can reason it out for themselves.

From my own life  experience that is untrue and, just may be, one of the major flaws with modern parenting is that modern parents actually believe that. My parents  had total control of me until I was in my mid teens (although I had a lot of physical independence and spent the days away from school doing pretty much anything I wanted in creative play.) and probably just as well. School teachers and others in authority also could, and did, force children to do exactly as they were told.
After that, despite a short period of teenage independence, i grew up pretty much like  my parents, which was also a good thing.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#82    araxia

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

religious indoctrination is child abuse.


#83    JGirl

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

View Postaraxia, on 22 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

religious indoctrination is child abuse.
nonsense


#84    JGirl

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:38 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 20 November 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

Actually i bet you would try to "force" them to believe a lot of things you do, like being honest and not hurting others, for example, but you make an exception about religious beliefs.
For example, i would "force" a son of mine to respect  and love women, and if he couldnt, then I would not have him in my home. (not talking about sexual love here just the love and respect due to women by men)
i never forced my children to do anything. i gave them options choices and consequences. they were always free to choose.
as for forcing them to believe a lot of things i do, like being honest and not hurting others...those aren't belief systems. those are habits of decent human beings
don't twist what i said into something meaningless thank you


#85    Etu Malku

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

Children should not be exposed to religious indoctrination, they should be allowed to be children and as their awareness and consciousness expands, they will seek out Beliefs and the such in a natural way without the baggage of guilt held over them.

Most religions want to grab the child at birth while there is a blank slate, with proper techniques these poor minds can be programmed to the point that it is impossible to break from the neuro linguistic programming and a great feeling of wrong, abandonment, guilt, and worse of all FEAR is instilled for the person's lifetime, rendering their freedom of Will null and void.

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#86    dougeaton

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

Well better for parents to teach their children some form of morality, if not they will pick it up from TV, movies and their friends who may come from homes were they are not taught anything from their parents.  Good question.

doug

If you must have  finale absolute answers, then become an  hard nosed atheist or a fundie of any religion, both seem to be black and white thinkers, and have only contempt for those who think differently.

#87    freetoroam

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:50 PM

View Postaraxia, on 22 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

religious indoctrination is child abuse.

View PostJGirl, on 22 November 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

nonsense
===========================================
some can well be classed as child abuse, but in todays world, in some household sticking a child in front of a computer game so they do not get in your hair, is in some cases child neglect, how will these children turn out in comparison to those who have been fed religion?

Many children have a new found religion, its called the x-box.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#88    freetoroam

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:02 AM

We must remember that depending on what part of the world you live in makes a difference to how the teaching of a religion is taught to the child.
In countries like Saudia Arabia, I would imagine if the parent tried to bring their child up as a christian and made them wear a cross to school, it would not go down too well and could well be seen as a form of abuse.


Not being a follower of any cult, i find the whole lot strange.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#89    Mr Walker

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:10 AM

View PostJGirl, on 22 November 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

i never forced my children to do anything. i gave them options choices and consequences. they were always free to choose.
as for forcing them to believe a lot of things i do, like being honest and not hurting others...those aren't belief systems. those are habits of decent human beings
don't twist what i said into something meaningless thank you
Of course they are belief systems. What constitutes a "decent human being" is also a matter of belief based on cultural values.Every culture and every reasonable parent indoctrinates their children into  culturally accepted values behaviours etc.,
If we don't then the society cant survive.
Honesty, as oposed to theft, is basically a middle class concept whcih arose  as humans began to develop personal property. If a society doesnt have a concept of personal property then it probably doesnt have a concept of theft. Hence the problems between indigenous australians and european settlers in the early days of settlement.
Apache indians valued trickery and the abilty to steal above most other values, and a man who could not keep his horses safe was considered much less a man than  the one who stole them. Religious beliefs are just another form of  human belief, and most religious beliefs,  in any society, overlap and complement other social beliefs and laws.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#90    Orcseeker

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

View PostJGirl, on 22 November 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:


nonsense

I do believe it is child abuse. It is forcing the religious beliefs of yourself onto an impressionable young person. It's funny, I've heard a story where Christian parents got upset with Satanist parents teaching their hold their religion. The believed it was wrong to do that and in turn, child abuse. Hypocrisy at its best.

Edited by Orcseeker, 23 November 2012 - 03:11 PM.






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