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UFOs with Speeds up to 27,000 MPH

ufosfbi green fireballs los alamos project twinkle

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#406    mcrom901

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:24 AM

View Post1963, on 09 December 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Anyway,  I believe that the 'speed' and 'maneuverability' of these UFO's is a fascinating aspect of the recorded witness testimony in a multitude of cases. And often nullifies the possibilities of a "man-made" explanation to the puzzle.

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http://www.amsciepub...1993.77.3f.1059


#407    psyche101

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:37 AM

View Postquillius, on 07 December 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Gidday,

not so sure its suggesting an earthly source.....I mean there is no understanding of the energy source as it stands without invoking plasma life forms into the equation...

I dont entirely follow with regards to the spiritual v ET argument?


Hi Quillius

I do not see an ET connection, if the "life forms" are here, where does ET fit in?

By spiritual, if this phenomena can indicate or mimic intelligence, could this be what has prompted religious experiences?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#408    psyche101

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:40 AM

View Postquillius, on 07 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Hey Chrlzs, when you do email her can you also ask her to pop along to UM, I am sure she will enjoy herself here ...... :)

Can't say I hold her in high regard. Not super impressed with her book, or he rebuttals to Jim Oberg.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#409    psyche101

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:41 AM

View Postquillius, on 07 December 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

lol....about as cynical as I am paranoid :)

She has a facebook page, maybe she might be more conducive to a paranoid mind as opposed to a cynical one?


:rofl: :tu:

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#410    quillius

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:22 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 10 December 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Hi Quillius

I do not see an ET connection, if the "life forms" are here, where does ET fit in?

By spiritual, if this phenomena can indicate or mimic intelligence, could this be what has prompted religious experiences?

I guess that would depend where the life forms came from :)

ok, I see where you are going now with regards to the spiritual aspect. I would say that one would have to determine whether intelligence is 'indicated' 'mimiced' or 'real'....


#411    Mike D boy

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:30 AM

How fast: an UFO goes over 27,000 MPH...the earth is 20,000-some miles in diameter, thus the UFO could orbit around the world in 45-50 minutes!

What was reported remains unidentified, no matter how many studies conducted to point out what people saw on that day in 1949.

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#412    PersonFromPorlock

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

I'm always a little bemused by the idea that early '50s radar could determine speeds like '27,000 mph'. At that rate, successive returns would be seventy miles apart on most surveillance radars, meaning they'd be far more likely to be dismissed as random noise than a single moving target. And with a realistic detection range of 150 miles, you'd get at most five skin paints before the target had passed completely  through the radar's coverage. A target-tracking radar might do the job, but I suspect that as a practical matter they were design-limited to something like contemporary aircraft speeds - and at any rate, target trackers rely on surveillance radars to direct them to the target in the first place.


#413    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:27 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 10 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Can't say I hold her in high regard. Not super impressed with her book, or he rebuttals to Jim Oberg.

I'm very impressed with her book, but as I have said, I heard about these cases long ago, before they became public.

Leslie Kean is going to get attacked regardless of what she does because she found many important witnesses who came forward with information about UFOs.  Anyone who does that is going to get attacked very ruthlessly.  There are no exceptions.

I recall seeing the DIA documents about the Tehran (1976) and Peru (1980) cases long before they were being discussed in public.  Some people on here deliberately distorted what I said about that as well.  It's unbelievable the lengths they will go to with military UFO witnsses--very ruthless and dishonest with them.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 10 December 2012 - 05:42 PM.


#414    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

View PostPersonFromPorlock, on 10 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

I'm always a little bemused by the idea that early '50s radar could determine speeds like '27,000 mph'. At that rate, successive returns would be seventy miles apart on most surveillance radars, meaning they'd be far more likely to be dismissed as random noise than a single moving target. And with a realistic detection range of 150 miles, you'd get at most five skin paints before the target had passed completely  through the radar's coverage. A target-tracking radar might do the job, but I suspect that as a practical matter they were design-limited to something like contemporary aircraft speeds - and at any rate, target trackers rely on surveillance radars to direct them to the target in the first place.


I think what they really meant it that Lincoln LaPaz and others determined that there were far faster than conventional aircraft, traveling at 10-15 miles per second.  They were extremely fast but not behaving like meteorites.

I see that these supposedly "old and obsolete" cases really struck a nerve, too, because there has never seen any doubt that they were real, that they were unknown and flying around very sensitive installations.  On a number of cases, they also caused major spikes on the radiation detectors, which really got the interest of scientists.

I have never heard of radioactive "plasmas" or "meteorites", but these were.


#415    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

View PostTsa-La-Gie Oyate, on 10 December 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

How fast: an UFO goes over 27,000 MPH...the earth is 20,000-some miles in diameter, thus the UFO could orbit around the world in 45-50 minutes!

What was reported remains unidentified, no matter how many studies conducted to point out what people saw on that day in 1949.


They were basically fast enough to appear and disappear at will, literally fly circles around planes and missiles, and jump up and down and all around as they pleased. They most definitely got noticed, too, flying around up there at 100,000 or 200,000 feet and showing great interest in missile tests and high altitude balloons.

I don't know if these were all "piloted" by little alien guys or more like automated devices of some kind.  It is very clear to me from the evidence that at least some of them must have had a kind on nuclear power, and I think the government investigators at the time realized it as well.


#416    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 10 December 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

She has a facebook page, maybe she might be more conducive to a paranoid mind as opposed to a cynical one?


If having a Facebook page makes her paranoid and unreliable, then she certainly has plenty of company.


#417    mcrom901

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:12 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 10 December 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

On a number of cases, they also caused major spikes on the radiation detectors, which really got the interest of scientists.

which cases?

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 10 December 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

I have never heard of radioactive "plasmas" or "meteorites", but these were.

Ionizing (or ionising) radiation is radiation composed of particles that individually carry enough energy to liberate an electron from an atom or molecule, ionizing it. Ionizing radiation is generated through nuclear reactions, either artificial or natural, by very high temperature (e.g. the corona of the Sun), or via production of high energy particles in particle accelerators, or due to acceleration of charged particles by the electromagnetic fields produced by natural processes, from lightning to supernova explosions. - http://en.wikipedia....izing_radiation


plasma radiation (′plaz·mə ′rād·ē′ā·shən)
(plasma physics) Electromagnetic radiation emitted from a plasma, primarily by free electrons undergoing transitions to other free states or to bound states of atoms and ions, but also by bound electrons as they undergo transitions to other bound states. - http://www.answers.c...lasma-radiation


Recently commenting on the Hessdalen data presented at the EGU General Assembly, Frank wrote, “The luminous phenomena are poorly understood. The orbs do have the characteristic of being strongly ionized, strong enough to emit radiation seen with burning air (nitrogen reacting with oxygen to form nitrous oxides). - http://www.ghosttheo...ghts-phenomenon


#418    mcrom901

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 10 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

I don't know if these were all "piloted" by little alien guys or more like automated devices of some kind.  It is very clear to me from the evidence that at least some of them must have had a kind on nuclear power, and I think the government investigators at the time realized it as well.

because of the "radiation"?


#419    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:34 AM

At Mt. Palomar Observatory, they registered on the cosmic ray detectors over ten days--multiple times--so whatever radiation they were emitting must have been similar to that.  I think that's an important clue about what the UFOs really were and perhaps what was powering them.  

"Galactic cosmic rays (GCRs) are the high-energy particles that flow into our solar system from far away in the Galaxy. GCRs are mostly pieces of atoms:protons, electrons, and atomic nuclei which have had all of the surrounding electrons stripped during their high-speed (almost the speed of light) passage through the Galaxy. Cosmic rays provide one of our few direct samples of matterfrom outside the solar system. The magnetic fields of the Galaxy, the solar system, and the Earth have scrambled the flight paths of these particles so much that we can no longer point back to their sources in the Galaxy. If you made a map of the sky with cosmic ray intensities, it would be completely uniform. So we have to determine where cosmic rays come from by indirect means."


http://www.google.co...354675689,d.eWU


#420    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:39 AM

Some people did theorize that the UFOs were nuclear-powered Soviet aircraft of some kind, although we know no that no such things existed at the time.


The memo documents speculation on Soviet nuclear-powered disc by Col C. D. Gasser of the Nuclear Energy for the Propulsion of Aircraft (NEPA) project at Oak Ridge, Tennessee.  Gasser reported rumors coming from Wright-Patterson AFB that nuclear-powered disc-shaped planes might be making incursions into US airspace and returning to the USSR over the North Pole.

Posted Image


http://www.project19...b/gfbchron.html





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