128 replies to this topic

[Br Cornelius]

https://www.youtube....d&v=Bzey6qg2lMA

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 02 August 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 02 August 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

https://www.youtube....d&v=Bzey6qg2lMA

Br Cornelius

His words are useless until he champions the Israeli need for security as well.  He asks for Israelis to commit national suicide.  They are unwilling to do so and if the day comes when his "new world" insists on Israel's surrender through military force...well.... we will surely get a new world alright.  God save us from the "peacemakers" of today.  Such cries are simply cover for forcing agendas onto unwilling populations.

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 02 August 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

His words are useless until he champions the Israeli need for security as well.  He asks for Israelis to commit national suicide.  They are unwilling to do so and if the day comes when his "new world" insists on Israel's surrender through military force...well.... we will surely get a new world alright.  God save us from the "peacemakers" of today.  Such cries are simply cover for forcing agendas onto unwilling populations.

Do you think the right of Israel to force its agenda on the Palestinians some how trumps the Palestinians right to their lands ?
Two wrongs most certainly do not make a right. It really is a simple issue that if I came in with military force and took over your house - would I be right just because I had the force to do so ?

The Israeli Government is not serious about a two state solution - the longer that it delays a negotiated settlement - the more land it is able to steal from the Palestinians.

Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 02 August 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

Do you think the right of Israel to force its agenda on the Palestinians some how trumps the Palestinians right to their lands ?
Two wrongs most certainly do not make a right. It really is a simple issue that if I came in with military force and took over your house - would I be right just because I had the force to do so ?

The Israeli Government is not serious about a two state solution - the longer that it delays a negotiated settlement - the more land it is able to steal from the Palestinians.

Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

And the valid excuse that the Palestinians provide for them is their total unwillingness to ever concede the right of a JEWISH State in Palestine.  They want a right of return that would kill off the Jewish character of Israel in a few decades at most.  Are Israelis taking advantage of the stalemate to improve their situation on the ground? Absolutely, who wouldn't?  It's a situation with TWO sides and discounting either as irrelevant does nothing to really solve it.  The irony is that the only way Israel could maintain it's Jewish character AND allow the right of return would be to impose an apartheid government to rule over non voting Palestinians.  The Israelis won't even try such a thing yet they are already blamed for it.

[Hilander]

There needs to be a clear line drawn into the sand and both sides needs to accept it.

Desmond Tutu needs to address issues in African countries like Mali.  The same thing would happen to the Israelis if they couldn't protect themselves.

Islamists in North Mali Stone Couple to Death

EDIT:  Some of the problems of the Israelis are brought on themselves.  I'm not going to blame the Palestinians for everything.  They antagonize each other, you can come up with equally horrifying news stories of what each has done to the other.  I don't look for them to ever stop fighting until one is gone.  It wouldn't have to be like that if they could come to an agreement on borders then leave each other alone.  You don't have to like each other but leave each other alone.

If Romney becomes president I look for all this to become worse.

Edited by Hilander, 03 August 2012 - 01:25 AM.

[SteveBronfman]

The Queen condemns Cornelius's butchering of her Language.

[Br Cornelius]

Do you not think that Desmond Tutu is equally condemning of the situation regarding Islamists in Mali ??
The Israeli state has always operated from the assumption that their military might allows them to dictate terms to the Palestinians, and the Americans have backed them in that assumption - that is not an honest position to negotiate from. They have always operated a land grab policy, which means that they are implicitly not trusted in their honesty in saying that they want a two state solution. The attack on Lebonon will somewhat alter that perception.

Can you explain how the on the ground situation in Israel is functionally different to South African aparthied ?? I have been to Israel and seen how the Israelis treat the Palestinians. Whilst ever Israel operates an agressive expansionist policy in an occupied land - they will never be able to expect a peaceful, coexistance with their displaced subjects or neighbours.

Israel was a stupid idea from the moment it was formed - we all have to deal with the consequences of that stupidity. The only honourable thing to do would be to give the lands back to its rightful owners. It seems a bit late for Israel to do the honourable thing, but don't expect the rest of the world to accept its behaviour as anything other than dishonourable.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 03 August 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[The New Richard Nixon]

Well we all know Israel have broken many UN rules

[Taun]

Br Cornelius, on 03 August 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

-snip-

The only honourable thing to do would be to give the lands back to its rightful owners.

-snip-

I guess that would be the first Homo Erectus (or whatever) that roamed through that area about 100,000+ years ago then?

[Br Cornelius]

Taun, on 03 August 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

I guess that would be the first Homo Erectus (or whatever) that roamed through that area about 100,000+ years ago then?

The house analogy is the more accurate one. If I were to drive you out of your home by acts of terrorism - do you think you would have a right to ask the police to regain your property. The people that were displaced were actively in residence - not some semi-fictional wandering tribe of nomads.

Can we be serious here.

Br Cornelius

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 03 August 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

The house analogy is the more accurate one. If I were to drive you out of your home by acts of terrorism - do you think you would have a right to ask the police to regain your property. The people that were displaced were actively in residence - not some semi-fictional wandering tribe of nomads.

Can we be serious here.

Br Cornelius

By all means, lets.  Attempts were made over a period of years early on in this story to make some accommodation with the Arabs so that the Jews could have a Jewish State in Palestine.  The Arabs absolutely balked and then attacked.  And attacked again and again.  And LOST, again and again.  So why SHOULD Israel give a flying rip what the world thinks about their land and their nation?  It's the height of hypocrisy to look at the story from one side and never from the other.  Fortunately Israel can incinerate those who would come to kill their children and drive them off their land.  You at least show more common sense than people like dside who simply seem to think Israel should disappear from shame or something.  The Bible writers mentioned that jerusalem would be a troublesome burden for the whole world in the "last" or "latter" days.  And the whole problem would revolve around hatred of the Jews.  Silly, I know, but accurate as well.

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 03 August 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

By all means, lets.  Attempts were made over a period of years early on in this story to make some accommodation with the Arabs so that the Jews could have a Jewish State in Palestine.  The Arabs absolutely balked and then attacked.  And attacked again and again.  And LOST, again and again.  So why SHOULD Israel give a flying rip what the world thinks about their land and their nation?  It's the height of hypocrisy to look at the story from one side and never from the other.  Fortunately Israel can incinerate those who would come to kill their children and drive them off their land.  You at least show more common sense than people like dside who simply seem to think Israel should disappear from shame or something.  The Bible writers mentioned that jerusalem would be a troublesome burden for the whole world in the "last" or "latter" days.  And the whole problem would revolve around hatred of the Jews.  Silly, I know, but accurate as well.

It is not their land or their nation - it hasn't been for 2000yrs and even then the Israeli nation was a relatively small subset of a group of semitic people who lived in modern day Palestine. Historic Biblical claims to statehood are just bogus, and I would have to point out that on that basis the Native Americans have every right to massacre and displace the modern day nation of the USA. Doesn't sound logical does it, so why is it any more logical in Israel.

Why did the Zionists choose Palestine to set up a nation ? they would have been entirely better off buying a larger tract of Russian or US soil and building a secure nation there. This Biblical claim to the promised land is just a troubling delusion which should never have been allowed to happen - when people live their lives by fictional myths then trouble can only follow. Let me remind you that Zionism is a secular endeavour which is not even supported by many Jews;





Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 03 August 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 03 August 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

It is not their land or their nation - it hasn't been for 2000yrs and even then the Israeli nation was a relatively small subset of a group of semitic people who lived in modern day Palestine. Historic Biblical claims to statehood are just bogus, and I would have to point out that on that basis the Native Americans have every right to massacre and displace the modern day nation of the USA. Doesn't sound logical does it, so why is it any more logical in Israel.

Why did the Zionists choose Palestine to set up a nation ? they would have been entirely better off buying a larger tract of Russian or US soil and building a secure nation there. This Biblical claim to the promised land is just a troubling delusion which should never have been allowed to happen - when people live their lives by fictional myths then trouble can only follow. Let me remind you that Zionism is a secular endeavour which is not even supported by many Jews;





Br Cornelius

So the UN did not agree to a State for Israel?  Cry Zionism all you like but Israel IS and will always be from this point forward.  Trot out self hating Jews until your heart is content.  Read chapter and verse of all the UN resolutions condemning Israel.  Cry me a river for the poor Palestinians who are the biggest welfare leeches on the planet.  When you've done all this, Israel will still be in the land.  If the world decides some day to remove them forcibly then you, I and everyone else will see a sight that's been limited to image archives for many decades - a mushroom cloud.  If the world doesn't have the guts to stop Iran who has no nuke, do you really think they will come against a nation that has AND has promised to NEVER AGAIN die alone?

[Br Cornelius]

You've just described a bunch of crazies holding the world to ransom with Nukes. Nice !!!

I personally will support a South Africa style boycott until such time as the Israeli regime behaves in a civil manner to its occupied subjects - unfortunately thats all I can do.

I also suspect that they might get their wish, since the fundi crazies are gunning for an armagedion in the promised land - with friends like that who needs enemies !

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 03 August 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Moon Monkey]

Br Cornelius, on 03 August 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

. The only honourable thing to do would be to give the lands back to its rightful owners.
Br Cornelius

The Turks?