Where are the scriptures?

[jerichoroad]

Could someone help me please?

I am very much into Bible prophecy, and try very hard, using the Bible, to put into perspective the teachings of Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, and other leading Prophecy teachers....However, I cannot find one scripture in all the Bible which specifically says, "Jews are God's chosen people".

You see, I MUST find a scripture which says that, or else I cannot believe any of the doctrines which those Prophecy teachers are teaching concerning the end, simply because they base all their end-time doctrines on the premise that "Jews are God's chosen people".

So, if you could, please point me to a scripture or scriptures in which God says, "Jews are my chosen people". Thanks much.

[zandore]

Welcome Jericho to UM forum

Will this help: Jews as a chosen people

[jerichoroad]

Welcome Jericho to UM forum

Will this help: Jews as a chosen people

I'm looking for "Scriptures from the Bible and the Christian perspective", as oppossed to the Torah and the Jewish perspective. Thanks anyways.

[Irish]

The entire Old Testament is evident that the Jews are Gods chosen people under special privilege as promised throughout scripture. All the things God has promised them have been fulfilled or will soon to be fulfilled, for example the return of their home land Israel.

Christians believe that Jesus was their promised messiah, even if many Jews do not believe this, however God keeps His promises regardless if they recognizes them or not.

Irish

[Jodie.Lynne]

I'm looking for "Scriptures from the Bible and the Christian perspective", as oppossed to the Torah and the Jewish perspective. Thanks anyways.

First, welcome to UM Jericho.

Now, as to your quote, where do you think the Old Testament comes from in your bible?

SURPRISE! the Torah, or "Books of Moses".

Read Exodus for where the creator tells Moses about "His people"...............

[zandore]

Welcome Jericho to UM forum

Will this help: Jews as a chosen people

I'm looking for "Scriptures from the Bible and the Christian perspective", as oppossed to the Torah and the Jewish perspective. Thanks anyways.

That link is to Wikipedia.

BTW: As JM pointed out the Christian Old Testament is also known as the Hebrew Bible and was copied from the Tanakh (<< a link).

[TheEssenceofExcellence]

Yeah Jericho, like others have pointed out the entire O.T. is proof that the Jews are God's chosen people. And it says it many times in the O.T. scriptures that God picked them out of all the peoples to be his share and stuff like that. And if your a Chrisitan, then you can't say that don't believe what was written in the O.T. because the O.T. is the basis of the new one.

That said here are some quotes concerning the Jewish people in the N.T.:

Romans Chp. 11 Verse 1-2: (this is Paul talking about the Jewish people)

"I SAY then, Hath God cast away his people? (the Jews) God forbid, For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God hath not cast away his people (the Jews) which he foreknew."

Right after that, it talks about how E-li'as (Elijah) spoke to God in the scriptures about the Jews when God was going to punish them for all their wrong doings.......and God said that there were 7,000 Jews that were good and those ones would be spared. (it supposed to show how God, even though he may punish Jews that aren't good people, still keeps his covenant with the good faithful Jewish people, and it talks about how the Jews that are saved are saved by grace, just like Christians are)

Then right after that (even though Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah, it explains that they're still God's people) and it explains why they don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah at this time....

Romans Chp. 11 Verse. 7-8:

"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

What's being said in verse 7 is that the Jews (like the Apostles for example) that were supposed to recognize Jesus as the Messiah have, but the rest who haven't were blinded.

Verse. 8:

"(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that should not see, and ears that should not hear,) unto this day."

After those verses in Romans 11 Paul goes on to explain that Christians that are saved in Jesus are now grafted into Israel. Meaning the promises and rewards, the life and salvation of the Israelites.....we now have claim to it as well, being no longer gentiles but grafted into Israel.

That being said, Paul also makes it clear that Christians (now being a part of Israel) should not boast against the branches that were broken off to make room for them (which would be the Jews that weren't good and faithful to God, and didn't have his grace). That being said it's also good for Christians not to boast or be negative towards any other Jews as well considering the fact tha the reasont they don't know Jesus is because God blinded them.

Anyway, I hope that helped Jericho. The Jews are still God's chosen people. It is written in the O.T. and it is written in the N.T. and not only in Romans but remember Revelations which talk about God's sealing of his people (the Jews) those that get sealed are alll members of different tribes of Israel. The Jews Are God's chosen people.

[jerichoroad]

Well thanks everyone for both the welcome and the responces to my question, however I'm disappointed that none of you could offer a scripture from the Bible which states specificaly that, "Jews" are God's chosen people", nor a scripture in which God says, "Jews" are my chosen people".

From my understanding of the scriptures it was Jacob's seed whom God blessed and called His chosen. Certainly Judah, from whince the term "Jews" originated, was one of Jacob's sons and was counted amongst the chosen, BUT Judah was not the only son of Jacob.....there were 11 other sons, and they all made up "the whole House of Israel".

Thus, we cannot rightfully say that only Judah (the Jews) was chosen, nor should we consider the whole House of Israel, "Jews". Seems this is what today's end-time prophecy teachers have done. And it's the reason why all their theories and doctrines concerning the end just doesn't add up.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Romans 2:17-29 has I think what you are looking for. It discusses those who are Jews (God's chosen people). But to show a couple of verses - A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God. - verses 28-29.

The Old Testament documented God's chosen nation, the Israelites, and the Messiah that was promised through the seed of Abraham. Now with the Messiah been, to be "Jewish" is not to belong to a race, but to belong to Jesus. As the Old Testament prophet Isaiah writes: I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one'. I will say to those called 'Not my people', 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.' - Hosea 2:23

There ya go, Jerichoroad. Hope that helps.

Regards, PA

Edited August 1, 2006 by Paranoid Android

[jerichoroad]

Romans 2:17-29 has I think what you are looking for. It discusses those who are Jews (God's chosen people). But to show a couple of verses - A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God. - verses 28-29.

The Old Testament documented God's chosen nation, the Israelites, and the Messiah that was promised through the seed of Abraham. Now with the Messiah been, to be "Jewish" is not to belong to a race, but to belong to Jesus. As the Old Testament prophet Isaiah writes: I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one'. I will say to those called 'Not my people', 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.' - Hosea 2:23

There ya go, Jerichoroad. Hope that helps.

Regards, PA

I know that it doesn't sit well with this "politically correct" generation to suggest that Jacob's sons (the House of Israel) is a "race" of people, nontheless it's true. In fact, it's that race of people of whom end-time prophecies are about.....NOT Judah (the Jews alone), mind you, ALL the House of Israel; whom happen to be predominately CHRISTIAN.

[seanph]

I am very much into Bible prophecy, and try very hard, using the Bible, to put into perspective the teachings of Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, and other leading Prophecy teachers

I would start with this problem first. HL predicted the end in 1980, so I would hardly call him a leading Prophecy teacher. JVI is no better and simply nuts. He's been repeating himself for the last twenty years, continously holding up a newspaper and saying "Oh, Rexella, we're so close!"

Both these gentlemen belong in the Darby category of end-timers who are never right and never will be. They can't be when they interpret Revelations, Rapture, Antichrist et al incorrectly ...

... Modern antichrist hunters are pursuing a figure who no longer exists. Let's look at the biblical evidence. The word "antichrist" appears only in John's epistles (1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 John 7). "What is taught in these passages constitutes the whole New Testament doctrine of Antichrist."4 You will search in vain to find the word anywhere mentioned in Revelation or any part of the Old Testament. John's antichrist is defined in the following ways, none of which fits the modern definition:

* Anyone "who denies that Jesus is the Christ" (1 John 2:22).

* Anyone who "denies the Father and Son" (1 John 2:23).

* “Every spirit that does not confess Jesus" (1 John 4:3).

* "Those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 John 7).

Could the Bible be any more clear? According to the Bible, antichrist is not a single individual, a world-wide political manipulator of the religious masses...

SOURCE--American Vision: A Biblical Worldview Ministry: The Antichrist Fraud

http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/12-22-04.asp

Hal Lindsey

http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/sear...ow=&outlet=

Jack Van Impe: Comic Genius

http://www.catalaw.com/detox/reverse/14.shtml

Mushroom award Winner

http://www.valleyskeptic.com/mushro_1.htm

Sean

Edited August 1, 2006 by seanph

[+Link of Hyrule]

Indeed, sean. I can't say as I think much of Hal Lindsey and co. but it's up to others if they choose to agree with his words or not.

ANyway, Jerichoroad, you are right to an extent. The promises to Abraham included all of Israel. However, in the days of the warring kings Jeroboam and Rehoboam, Israel split into two - the Southern and Northern Kingdoms. Those in Israel (Northern Kingdom) were later conquered and assimilated by the Assyrians (the Bible ascribes this as punishment for failing to honour the covenant - most of the Northern Kingdom kings did not keep the words of the Lord). Their bloodline is practically non-existent. Judah, the Southern Kingdom was taken over by Babylon a couple of centuries later as part of the same punishment as the North, though not as severe since many of the Southern Kingdom kings did indeed follow God's Law. The Babylonian King had a more tolerant stand to other races, and were allowed to return to their homeland, rebuild the Temple, and continue to worship their God.

With the rest of the Israelites scattered, their blood intermingled and indistinguishable from the "tainted" blood of the Samaritans (who they became, which was why the Jews had such hatred for them in New Testament times), it was the Jews alone (and I suppose Benjamin and the half-tribe of Manessah also, who were also a part of the Southern Kingdom) who were left as "God's chosen people". As their Kingdom became known as "Judah", so they became known as Jews.

That away with, refer back to my original post.

[jerichoroad]

Indeed, sean. I can't say as I think much of Hal Lindsey and co. but it's up to others if they choose to agree with his words or not.

ANyway, Jerichoroad, you are right to an extent. The promises to Abraham included all of Israel. However, in the days of the warring kings Jeroboam and Rehoboam, Israel split into two - the Southern and Northern Kingdoms. Those in Israel (Northern Kingdom) were later conquered and assimilated by the Assyrians (the Bible ascribes this as punishment for failing to honour the covenant - most of the Northern Kingdom kings did not keep the words of the Lord). Their bloodline is practically non-existent. Judah, the Southern Kingdom was taken over by Babylon a couple of centuries later as part of the same punishment as the North, though not as severe since many of the Southern Kingdom kings did indeed follow God's Law. The Babylonian King had a more tolerant stand to other races, and were allowed to return to their homeland, rebuild the Temple, and continue to worship their God.

With the rest of the Israelites scattered, their blood intermingled and indistinguishable from the "tainted" blood of the Samaritans (who they became, which was why the Jews had such hatred for them in New Testament times), it was the Jews alone (and I suppose Benjamin and the half-tribe of Manessah also, who were also a part of the Southern Kingdom) who were left as "God's chosen people". As their Kingdom became known as "Judah", so they became known as Jews.

That away with, refer back to my original post.

The bloodline of the House of Israel is "practically non-existent", eh?

Yeah right...and I've got a condo in Malibu I'd like to sell you too.

Look friend, I know all too well that the devil and his minions today are not going to allow the truth to be told as to the true identity (race) of the House of Israel. In fact, when one even attempts to tell the truth, more often than not, that person is banned from message boards such as this. So then, you just go on believing what you will. The truth is going to come soon enough anyway, when Jesus bursts through the clouds of glory at his second coming, and slays the deceived of this world with the sword of truth which proceedeth out of his mouth. (Rev.19:15)

[jerichoroad]

I would start with this problem first. HL predicted the end in 1980, so I would hardly call him a leading Prophecy teacher. JVI is no better and simply nuts. He's been repeating himself for the last twenty years, continously holding up a newspaper and saying "Oh, Rexella, we're so close!"

Both these gentlemen belong in the Darby category of end-timers who are never right and never will be. They can't be when they interpret Revelations, Rapture, Antichrist et al incorrectly ...

... Modern antichrist hunters are pursuing a figure who no longer exists. Let's look at the biblical evidence. The word "antichrist" appears only in John's epistles (1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 John 7). "What is taught in these passages constitutes the whole New Testament doctrine of Antichrist."4 You will search in vain to find the word anywhere mentioned in Revelation or any part of the Old Testament. John's antichrist is defined in the following ways, none of which fits the modern definition:

* Anyone "who denies that Jesus is the Christ" (1 John 2:22).

* Anyone who "denies the Father and Son" (1 John 2:23).

* “Every spirit that does not confess Jesus" (1 John 4:3).

* "Those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 John 7).

Could the Bible be any more clear? According to the Bible, antichrist is not a single individual, a world-wide political manipulator of the religious masses...

SOURCE--American Vision: A Biblical Worldview Ministry: The Antichrist Fraud

http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/12-22-04.asp

Hal Lindsey

http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/sear...ow=&outlet=

Jack Van Impe: Comic Genius

http://www.catalaw.com/detox/reverse/14.shtml

Mushroom award Winner

http://www.valleyskeptic.com/mushro_1.htm

Sean

Hey, I couldn't agree more!....Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Imple, etc, are flakes! For you see, it's prophecy teachers such as they who teach that "Jews" are "God's chosen people", and have made up that whole "Antichrist" fable which centers around the Jews!

[+Link of Hyrule]

The bloodline of the House of Israel is "practically non-existent", eh?

Yeah right...and I've got a condo in Malibu I'd like to sell you too.

Oh cool. Do you accept Cheque? I've always wanted to live in Malibu. Is it beachfront or inland, and what's your price

If you believe you know who the Israelites are, go for it. I have a book in my bookshelf saying something along the lines of the 12 Tribes moving to Europe somewhere and being the forefathers of Modern Europe, but it's all speculation.

[seanph]

If you believe you know who the Israelites are, go for it. I have a book in my bookshelf saying something along the lines of the 12 Tribes moving to Europe somewhere and being the forefathers of Modern Europe, but it's all speculation.

Israel (Fordham University)

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook06.html

Sean

[jerichoroad]

Israel (Fordham University)

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook06.html

Sean

Instead of wading through all that reading, why not cut to the chase and state your opinion as to "the race of people" today whom are Israel; the Israelites?! Are they the white man?, the black man?, the brown man?, yellow man?, which?! Are they of mixed race?

Until we've identified which race that is, then all the discussions and comments in the world will be of little value.

[seanph]

Because if you do not spend the time thoroughly researching the issue first, you cannot come up with a correct answer.

[jerichoroad]

Because if you do not spend the time thoroughly researching the issue first, you cannot come up with a correct answer.

Why not just use the brain God gave YOU, instead of relying on the brain of others?

It's called "common sense", BTW.

[seanph]

How about studying the work of best scholars in order to understand a complex issue? I prefer facts, reason, logic and commonsense to make an informed decision. To add to a discussion on the history of Judaism without having any prior knowledge of such a complex issue whatsoever, what good is your opinion? What do you add to the conversation? Nothing.

And how about you stop being a smartass, Mr. Loving Christian? Doesn't such behavior go against the very tenets of your faith--love, kindness etc.?

Edited August 3, 2006 by seanph

[jerichoroad]

How about studying the work of best scholars in order to understand a complex issue? I prefer facts, reason, logic and commonsense to make an informed decision. To add to a discussion on the history of Judaism without having any prior knowledge of such a complex issue whatsoever, what good is your opinion? What do you add to the conversation? Nothing.

And how about you stop being a smartass, Mr. Loving Christian? Doesn't such behavior go against the very tenets of your faith--love, kindness etc.?

You know, it's not necessary to become outraged, and commence calling me names. That exposes YOUR "faith--love, and kindness". I simply asked the question: Why not use your own brain, and state which race you believe the Hebrews; the House of Israel is today. That's all!.....nothing more, nothing less.

[seanph]

Your statement did not come across as anything but sarcastic. And was.

Edited August 3, 2006 by seanph

[Jodie.Lynne]

Why do I get the feeling that there will soon be a diatribe against the "impure races" coming up?

Why not just use the brain God gave YOU, instead of relying on the brain of others?

So tell us jericho, where do you get the facts to form your opinions?

Instead of wading through all that reading, why not cut to the chase and state your opinion

Of course, it is much easier to just assume something, rather than have to sort through all that reading material, no?

[zandore]

Why not just use the brain God gave YOU, instead of relying on the brain of others?

It's called "common sense", BTW.

That is what Seanph was suggesting to do.

Why do I get the feeling that there will soon be a diatribe against the "impure races" coming up?

You got that feeling also?

[jerichoroad]

Why do I get the feeling that there will soon be a diatribe against the "impure races" coming up?

So tell us jericho, where do you get the facts to form your opinions?

Of course, it is much easier to just assume something, rather than have to sort through all that reading material, no?

I'm not going to enter into arguments about "race" here!....Been there, done that. I'm simply asking that we all use our own God-given brains; our own common sense and intuitions if you will, instead of relying on todays so-called theologians and Bible prophecy "experts" for answers. God's able to speak to the simplest of minds today, and more ofter than not, probably DOES!

I'm sure that all Christians on here knows that the greatest Teacher of all is the Holy Spirit. Thus, it is HE whom we should lean on for understanding of Scriptures, and NOT man.