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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2626    Othar Winis

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:42 AM

View PostKnul, on 08 March 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

fârt = Dutch vaart, boat trip

FÁRT = German "Fahrt" = ride, trip, journey, tour, run, voyage, sail

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#2627    Othar Winis

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:03 AM

View PostApol, on 06 March 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

One of the problems with our materialistic natural science, is, that it is near to 100% dependent on matter. Places don't exist before they are mentioned in some manuscript.
Often we read on the Wikipedia that a city was founded by this and that person in this and that year. But this doesn't necessarily mean that there didn't exist a place at the same site from before - and with even the same name if the sovereign didn't put his own to it. It's often the rulers who write history and who have the resources to do so, and their main reason for doing it, is often their urge to immortalize themselves so that they can surpass their predecessors in reputation.

This was one of the best posts in this thread.
(Made me want to finally join.)
It is worth reading again.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#2628    Othar Winis

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

KUL / NUL

Page 51, line 26
ALLET ORE FOLK IS NUL IN.T SIFFER ÀND ÉLLIK

NUL =
Dutch "nul" =
Swedish "noll" =
English "nil, null"

Page 82, line 26
NILST MIN KUL NAVT SÁ SKILST MIN SWÉRD HÁ

KUL =
Dutch "kul, lul" =
Swedish "kuk" =
English "c0ck, dork"

Edited by gestur, 08 March 2013 - 12:55 PM.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#2629    Abramelin

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

View Postgestur, on 08 March 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

This was one of the best posts in this thread.
(Made me want to finally join.)
It is worth reading again.

Then I do hope you also read my answer to Apol's post: that we are not merely dependent on written records, but also on archeological finds.


#2630    Othar Winis

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Then I do hope you also read my answer to Apol's post: that we are not merely dependent on written records, but also on archaeological finds.

Like he said:

"One of the problems with our materialistic natural science, is, that it is near to 100% dependent on matter."

When things are found, that is wonderful.
But if no things were found, it does not mean they were never there.

Some things disappear by natural cause over time, others get destroyed (or recycled) by humans.

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#2631    Abramelin

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

Marsata, Marezaten, Marsacii, Marsi.

The OLB Marsata lived on lakes, just like the Marezaten from old Dutch sources.

The Marsacii (Tacitus) lived near the Batavians in the (Dutch) delta of the Waal and Rhine, although I have also seen maps that located them in/near the present-day Dutch province of Zeeland.

The Marsi lived futher to the east, close to where the OLB places the Marsata.

It has been claimed on the one hand that there might be a link to an earlier named Germanic tribe, from far to the east, known as the Marsi. Somewhat more positively considered is the proposal that the name of the Marsacii is preserved in the name of a medieval gau which was named Marsum. This was to the north of the mouth of the Maas into the North Sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsacii

Posted Image

http://en.wikipedia....arsi_(Germanic)

http://en.wikipedia....ermanic_peoples

.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 March 2013 - 01:30 PM.


#2632    The Puzzler

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:55 PM

View Postgestur, on 08 March 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

FÁRT = German "Fahrt" = ride, trip, journey, tour, run, voyage, sail

Fart is an English language vulgarism most commonly used in reference to flatulence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FART

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#2633    The Puzzler

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:30 PM

It takes them a whole year and they travel all the way along one side of the Rhine and then back on the other side. It mentions this Marsaten people living high up the Rhine, where the higher you went the poorer people were. The former Schoonlanders have gone up to the mountains in the same place and make iron - they might be classed as Celts in that area, making iron. Above the Rhine among the mountains they had seen Marsaten... they build on piles, like was discovered in the lakes mid-19th century there - then come the Swiss....


The Burgtmaagd must teach them how to set to work when they go among the people. Before a Burgtmaagd can take office, she must travel through the country a whole year. Three grey-headed Burgtheeren and three old maidens must go with her. This was the way that I did. My journey was along the Rhine—on this side up, and on the other side down. The higher I went, the poorer the people seemed to be. Everywhere about the Rhine the people dug holes, and the sand that was got out was poured with water over fleeces to get the gold, but the girls did not wear golden crowns of it. Formerly they were more numerous, but since we lost Schoonland they have gone up to the mountains. There they dig ore and make iron. Above the Rhine among the mountains I have seen Marsaten. The Marsaten are people who live on the lakes. Their houses are, built upon piles, for protection from the wild beasts and wicked people. There are wolves, bears, and horrible lions. Then come the Swiss, the nearest to the frontiers of the distant Italians, the followers of Kalta and the savage Twiskar, all greedy for robbery and booty. The Marsaten gain their livelihood by fishing and hunting. The skins are sewn together by the women, and prepared with birch bark. The small skins are as soft as a woman’s skin. The Burgtmaagd at Fryasburgt (Freiburg) told us that they were good, simple people; but if I had not heard her speak of them first, I should have thought that they were not Frya’s people, they looked so impudent. Their wool and herbs are bought by the Rhine people, and taken to foreign countries by the ship captains. Along the other side of the Rhine it was just the same as at Lydasburcht (Leiden). There was a great river or lake, and upon this lake also there were people living upon piles. But they were not Frya’s people; they were black and brown men who had been employed as rowers to bring home the men who had been making foreign voyages, and they had to stay there till the fleet went back.
At last we came to Alderga.

Abe, you can argue all day but for me, the Marsaten are up the Rhine as far as it goes, on the lakes, on the mountains, before the Swiss.

Posted Image

http://en.wikipedia....te_Rhein_03.jpg

Edited by The Puzzler, 08 March 2013 - 02:48 PM.

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#2634    Abramelin

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:49 PM

With my former post I only wanted to show you there was (and probably still is) confusion about where the Marsacii (Tacitus) were located. The confusion must have arisen because there was a similar named tribe, the Marsi, living in West Germany,

Those who wrote the OLB must have been confused too, and just equated the Marsacii with the Marsi.

Btw, I wonder how one pronounces "Marsacii": is it like "Marsaki" or like "Marsatshi"?

And proving the OLB by quoting from the OLB won't do.

-

But do you agree with me that the German Aken is not anywhere near the Rhine?


.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 March 2013 - 02:51 PM.


#2635    Abramelin

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:58 PM

The first Dutch source to mention people that lived in pile dwellings on lakes and marshes, and Marezaten, was Jakob van Lennep in 1832, decades  before the OLB was published. But he located them just above the Dutch part of the river Rhine, south of Lake Flevo.

"Marezaten" appears to be the old Dutch pronounciation of Marsacii,hence my question about how to pronounce "Marsacii".

And look at -D- on this Dutch map of the tribes during Roman times: it shows the Marzaten at the coast of the North Sea:

http://commons.wikim...art_stammen.png


.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 March 2013 - 03:04 PM.


#2636    The Puzzler

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:16 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 March 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

With my former post I only wanted to show you there was (and probably still is) confusion about where the Marsacii (Tacitus) were located. The confusion must have arisen because there was a similar named tribe, the Marsi, living in West Germany,

Those who wrote the OLB must have been confused too, and just equated the Marsacii with the Marsi.

Btw, I wonder how one pronounces "Marsacii": is it like "Marsaki" or like "Marsatshi"?

And proving the OLB by quoting from the OLB won't do.

-

But do you agree with me that the German Aken is not anywhere near the Rhine?


.
I'd say Marsaki myself.

I'm only quoting it to show you the Marsaten mentioned in the OLB are in the area of Bodenzee, no where else - I'm not concerned there's no mention of Marsaten in the area - there's no mention of Fryans anywhere either...

Also, it tells us that 3 other names are used after specific ones...

Besides these we had the names Landzaten (natives of the land), Marzaten (natives of the fens), and Woud or Hout zaten (natives of the woods).

There could have been many Marzaten, Landzaten and Woudzaten around the Fryan lands, depending on where they lived.


On a map it's not on the Rhine, Apol said it was 60km west. I see it as that's where they were equal to on the Rhine. They didn't pass it, it says 'when they were about the old citadel of Aken' - this indicates to me they were only using it as a gauge up the river.

They had no way to indicate where they were on the Rhine unless they used a town marker, which was not on the Rhine, but equal to where they were at the time.


Aken.-------60km-------- Rhine (spot where the killings occurred)

This is common practice in Australia, it's so big, we only have some large towns, mostly on our East Coast, so I'll say the name of the town on the coast is 'about' where I am - even though I don't live on the coast, I live 100km inland. No one could comprehend where I am otherwise.

Edited by The Puzzler, 08 March 2013 - 03:22 PM.

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#2637    Othar Winis

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:25 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 08 March 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Fart is an English language vulgarism most commonly used in reference to flatulence.
:-)
That made me curious.

www.etymonline.com
fart (v.) Old English feortan, ultimately from PIE *perd- (cf. Old High German ferzan, Old Norse freta, Sanskrit pard, Greek perdein, Lithuanian perdzu, Russian perdet), of imitative origin. Related: Farted; farting. As a noun, from late 14c.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fare
From the merger of Old English fær ("journey, road"), a neuter, + faru ("journey, companions, baggage"), feminine, both from faran ("to journey"), from Proto-Germanic *faranan, from Proto-Indo-European *por- (“going, passage”).
From Old English faran ("to journey"), from Proto-Germanic *faranan, from Proto-Indo-European *por- (“going, passage”). Cognates include West Frisian farre, Dutch varen, German fahren ("to travel"), Danish fare, Icelandic fara ("to go") and Swedish fara ("to travel").

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#2638    The Puzzler

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:52 PM

The word pardon, as in 'pardon me', what you say when you do fart, like excuse me.

'Pard' - a root word, then you have pardon.

From 'forgive' http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pardon

So, fart seems to come from forgive - which I can see why - and we say Pardon me, rather than Forgive me (for stinking up the place).

:blush:

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#2639    Othar Winis

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:00 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 08 March 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

So, fart seems to come from forgive
No:
Fart = "of imitative origin"
Pardon = from "per-donare" (Latin)

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#2640    Apol

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:01 PM

Mârsâta means lake dwellers - forget about tribes. Wherever people are living on piles, you would just call them "lake dwellers". They could be in any place where there were lakes.





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