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Is there more to John 19:26, 19:27 and 19:30?


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#31    Jor-el

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 10 January 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Jesus` brothers were his believers, James took over the minstery after Jesus had died. Jesus brothers were much younger then him, and he as the oldest took care of them, I think the reason Jesus gave his consin John Mark the care of his mother, because he was a older male member of the family and was more in a better position to take care of her,and in my opinion John mark was the frist to write of Jesus, the gospel of Mark, who was the only male to be at the cross.


My guess:):

James became leader of the church much later, none of his brothers were present at the crucifixion although some of his indirict family was (cousins). Thus James could not possibly have taken over any ministry. He is not mentioned until later in Acts as head of the Jerusalem church. That was around 10 years later.

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-C. S. Lewis


#32    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

Hello Jor-el.

View PostJor-el, on 10 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

It depends on the family and what you consider to be shame... I would have to say that the male line would not have refused to take her in, they would just have felt obligated to do so, not because they wanted to do so.  They did not accept Jesus ministry, they did not accept that their "mother" had been duped by someone they considered a false prophet. They did not want to associate with her.

To avoid shame, they would have taken her in, but it would have been against their will.
Would, that hypothetical precursor. I want facts, man, especially since I've already given you my theory. Otherwise, create your own. And the fact remains: the sons did convert. Therefore...what...is...your...point. If you're in a different religion, then I will understand your POV. I'm not here to convert you. I'm here to share with you why I became a Christian.


To them (Jesus' brothers), Jesus and their mother were considered crazy.  Where is this in the Bible? Or, did you get your facts online?


There is a problem with that perspective. God did not come to the world via Jesus "Playing a Role of a human being". Jesus WAS a human being in every respect. If he weren't then nothing he did on the cross would count for anything. Only the seed of Adam could rightfully take the place of "the Lamb".

Jesus is Jesus, God is God, Jesus is simply the manifestation of the Godhead in the physcial realm. Not of God, but of the Godhead. They are intertwined, but they are also seperate entities in their own right.
Before I answer your question, what religion are you? Or, do you have one?

[Again, you still haven't answered my question: "Is this in the Bible?" Where?]  No it isn't in the bible. Exactly.
Thank you again for your post.

Peace.

Paul

Edited by braveone2u, 10 January 2013 - 08:15 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#33    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

I'm a 300% Christian because Jesus IS God, as in part of the Holy Trinity. Not just a human being.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#34    Jor-el

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 10 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Hello Jor-el.

Would, that hypothetical precursor. I want facts, man, especially since I've already given you my theory. Otherwise, create your own. And the fact remains: the sons did convert. Therefore...what...is...your...point. If you're in a different religion, then I will understand your POV. I'm not here to convert you. I'm here to share with you why I became a Christian.


Are you aware that you are considered to be shouting when you answer in red and are speaking quite loudly when you answer in letters double the size of normal script?

You theory is your theory, I am not discussing your theory here, or is that what you want, for all of us to be discussing "your theory"?

The facts are not in evidence, not in what you said and not in what anybody else has said, they are reciting the bible, and the bible does not realate all the facts, it is far more silent that illuminating when it comes to the "facts".

I'm glad you became a believer, but let me add that becoming a believer does not automatically put you in the area we call the truth or the sole arbiter of the facts. There are some very strange believers in the world, some believe the wierdest things and they call themselves christians to boot. I do not judge their beliefs, but I do comment on their stances as in regards to what the bible says on a given subject. If you are not happy with my stance I cannot help that. I am happy to move on if you can't debate certain points because you feel so strongly about them.

I would also call to your atytention that not once have I denigrated your beliefs nor even actually disagreed with any of your points, what I have done is debate them in an open forum.


Quote

To them (Jesus' brothers), Jesus and their mother were considered crazy.  Where is this in the Bible? Or, did you get your facts online?

Mark 3:20-31

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law

20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”
23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”
31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.

Let me ask you a question... Why didn't they go in and call him themselves? were they afraid, were they embarrassed? Why did they need to ask someone else to go into that house and call Jesus out of it? The simple truth is explained quite clearly in the 1st verse... They thought Jesus was out of his mind. Jesus mother came round earlier than the others, but she too thought he was out of his mind. It is right there in the text.


Quote

Before I answer your question, what religion are you? Or, do you have one?

The same as yours, I'm a christian.

Quote

[Again, you still haven't answered my question: "Is this in the Bible?" Where?]  No it isn't in the bible. Exactly.


Thank you again for your post.

Peace.

Paul

I couldn't have been clearer... Let me repeat my earlier phrase so that you can read it again, but this time read it a little slower, so you don't jump to conclusions before getting to the end.

Word for word? No it isn't in the bible. You won't find a verse citation. but it is implicit in the act and meaning of the verses you quoted, especially when you read other verses regarding Jesus' family and what they thought of him.

Edited by Jor-el, 10 January 2013 - 10:37 PM.

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#35    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

View PostJor-el, on 10 January 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Are you aware that you are considered to be shouting when you answer in red and are speaking quite loudly when you answer in letters double the size of normal script?

You theory is your theory, I am not discussing your theory here, or is that what you want, for all of us to be discussing "your theory"?

The facts are not in evidence, not in what you said and not in what anybody else has said, they are reciting the bible, and the bible does not realate all the facts, it is far more silent that illuminating when it comes to the "facts".

I'm glad you became a believer, but let me add that becoming a believer does not automatically put you in the area we call the truth or the sole arbiter of the facts. There are some very strange believers in the world, some believe the wierdest things and they call themselves christians to boot. I do not judge their beliefs, but I do comment on their stances as in regards to what the bible says on a given subject. If you are not happy with my stance I cannot help that. I am happy to move on if you can't debate certain points because you feel so strongly about them.

I would also call to your atytention that not once have I denigrated your beliefs nor even actually disagreed with any of your points, what I have done is debate them in an open forum.




Mark 3:20-31

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law

20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”
23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”
31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.

Let me ask you a question... Why didn't they go in and call him themselves? were they afraid, were they embarrassed? Why did they need to ask someone else to go into that house and call Jesus out of it? The simple truth is explained quite clearly in the 1st verse... They thought Jesus was out of his mind. Jesus mother came round earlier than the others, but she too thought he was out of his mind. It is right there in the text.




The same as yours, I'm a christian.



I couldn't have been clearer... Let me repeat my earlier phrase so that you can read it again, but this time read it a little slower, so you don't jump to conclusions before getting to the end.

Word for word? No it isn't in the bible. You won't find a verse citation. but it is implicit in the act and meaning of the verses you quoted, especially when you read other verses regarding Jesus' family and what they thought of him.
Hello Jor-el,

"Family." Did it mention "brothers," specifically? Could it also be that Jesus' relatives ("family") were afraid for him; therefore, they had to say that to stop the crowd from stoning him to death? Insanity is a valid excuse today to get out of death. Go figure. Did they, however, believe that Jesus was insane? I don't believe so because they risked their lives to protect him. My concern is "brothers," not vague "family," nor his neighbors. Again, did it specifically say, "Brothers."

...double the size of normal script. I was trying to see what I was writing. Letters are too small. Red? I was trying to distinguish my words from yours (inside the quote box). I've done it before; however, you're the only one who has mentioned it. Thank you for telling me.

What sect of Christianity are you?

It's why I'm giving you my "not" anonymous implicit words and original theory.


Peace.

Paul

Edited by braveone2u, 10 January 2013 - 11:01 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#36    Jor-el

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:37 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 10 January 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Hello Jor-el,

"Family." Did it mention "brothers," specifically? Could it also be that Jesus' relatives ("family") were afraid for him; therefore, they had to say that to stop the crowd from stoning him to death? Insanity is a valid excuse today to get out of death. Go figure. Did they, however, believe that Jesus was insane? I don't believe so because they risked their lives to protect him. My concern is "brothers," not vague "family," nor his neighbors. Again, did it specifically say, "Brothers."

Yes it does mention brothers, specifically as well as his mother...

31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.

If you prefer to interpret the verses as stating that they were trying to protect him by lying to the crowd, then that is your prerogative. Personally I don't see it that way and neither did Jesus.. This was his answer...

32And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you.” 33 And he answered them, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” 34 And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.”

Quote

...double the size of normal script. I was trying to see what I was writing. Letters are too small. Red? I was trying to distinguish my words from yours (inside the quote box). I've done it before; however, you're the only one who has mentioned it. Thank you for telling me.

Ok. It would be better to use the buttons labelled "quote" at the top of your answer box to seperate the poster from the reply, like am am doing. It is much neater and clearer to everyone. Select the text and click quote. That is merely a suggestion.

Quote

What sect of Christianity are you?

Well, I belong to a denomination, not a sect, that word has a negative connotation. I am a Pentecostal Evangelical Christian.

Quote

It's why I'm giving you my "not" anonymous implicit words and original theory.

Peace.

Paul

Ok

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-C. S. Lewis


#37    Ciss

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 07 January 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

These 3 passages made a profound impact on me, enough to make me a Christian again. No storyteller could've told this without divine guidance or going through a physical resurrection. It's truly beyond a storyteller's vision. It was, after all, a realtime account. Think about it: this was Christ's last time on earth, and yet, he was still fulfilling his "role" as Jesus to the very end. Talk about continuity! Even his last intimate words (while talking to himself), he kept his divine identity intact by being detached to his role. "It is finished." Yes, if he hadn't known about his divinity and role (the man with the mission), he would not have adopted out his mother because there would be no logic to it and it would not fit the greatest story ever told -- it would not follow the theme of "Divine Love Made Flesh." Adopting out your mother?? Sounds extreme, doesn't it! It's so un-son like, as if Jesus was lashing to the world. "Here, take my mother!" I've read articles online, but they don't follow the logical story of Jesus the Christ, the embodiment of love eternal. I believe that one of his goals is to tell us that we are merely playing a role right now. It's not who we really are...just like Christ was really not Jesus the flesh but a truly powerful god on earth to save us from our illusions.

IMHO, these 3 passages are as profound as the resurrection, or even more so in a literary sense because of their subtle, and yet penetrating, nature.

Peace.

Paul

Hi Paul,

You said, "Think about it: this was Christ's last time on earth", but it wasn't his last time on earth...He even said it himself, and in three days I will raise it up

Some people say and believe that there is no way that Jesus as God and Lord could possibly know what we go through in dieing a death...most of us don't go to our death with the knowledge that we can return or even with a knowledge of anything about where we go...or even if we will be after it happens, we can only guess and hope... Did Jesus' death require any faith on his part? The kind of faith we have been allowed, guess and hope and beat the shizz out of anybody that tries to make you doubt what you guessed and hoped for...


"he kept his divine identity intact"...well, that's nice to know that at least God can do that...


Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.


Why would a son adopt out his mother if he already knew he was coming back?


#38    docyabut2

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:19 AM

Jor-el' qoute-

Mark 3:20-31

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law

20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”
23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”
31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.

Let me ask you a question... Why didn't they go in and call him themselves? were they afraid, were they embarrassed? Why did they need to ask someone else to go into that house and call Jesus out of it? The simple truth is explained quite clearly in the 1st verse... They thought Jesus was out of his mind. Jesus mother came round earlier than the others, but she too thought he was out of his mind. It is right there in the text.




There nothing in the text that says Jesus`s family that came thought Jesus was out of his mind,if anything they came to support him.

http://www.bluelette...r&c=3&v=1&t=KJV

Edited by docyabut2, 11 January 2013 - 01:28 AM.


#39    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:23 AM

View PostJor-el, on 10 January 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Yes it does mention brothers, specifically as well as his mother...

31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.

If you prefer to interpret the verses as stating that they were trying to protect him by lying to the crowd, then that is your prerogative. Personally I don't see it that way and neither did Jesus.. This was his answer...

32And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you.” 33 And he answered them, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” 34 And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.”

Ok. It would be better to use the buttons labelled "quote" at the top of your answer box to seperate the poster from the reply, like am am doing. It is much neater and clearer to everyone. Select the text and click quote. That is merely a suggestion.

Well, I belong to a denomination, not a sect, that word has a negative connotation. I am a Pentecostal Evangelical Christian.

Ok

Hello Jor-el,

Hopefully, none of us would be put to that particular situation if we were to be placed back in that space and time. Everything is always possible through God, the Supreme Superantural Being. My Jesus is exactly that -- Supreme Superanatural Being, at one time in the flesh.  I, for one, would never condemn them as lying. To conceal his divine nature is not the same as lying. Talk about being true to one's family! Then again, that's irrelevant to my theory.

"Arrived." Therefore, the brothers were not part of the "family" and angry crowd inside.

"For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother." And it's another example why my theory (voila feeling) is reverbering throughout the New Testiment. I'm not surprised.


Peace.

Paul

Edited by braveone2u, 11 January 2013 - 01:37 AM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#40    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

View PostCiss, on 11 January 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

Hi Paul,

You said, "Think about it: this was Christ's last time on earth", but it wasn't his last time on earth...He even said it himself, and in three days I will raise it up

Some people say and believe that there is no way that Jesus as God and Lord could possibly know what we go through in dieing a death...most of us don't go to our death with the knowledge that we can return or even with a knowledge of anything about where we go...or even if we will be after it happens, we can only guess and hope... Did Jesus' death require any faith on his part? The kind of faith we have been allowed, guess and hope and beat the shizz out of anybody that tries to make you doubt what you guessed and hoped for...


"he kept his divine identity intact"...well, that's nice to know that at least God can do that...


Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.


Why would a son adopt out his mother if he already knew he was coming back?
Hi Ciss,

"it wasn't his last time on earth..." It was his last time on earth as a breathing human being.

"...well, that's nice to know that at least God can do that..." It's the reason why I believe in Jesus Christ, a Supreme God, part of the Holy Trinity.

"Did Jesus' death require any faith on his part?" I can't speak for Jesus. I'm sharing with you my collective theory. Belief system is not the same as absolute fact. Nevertheless, my whole life is based on finding my pieces to my puzzle. It's the reason why I'm a Christian again, and I don't take this (major) decision very lightly. You have to read my posts to know more about my decision making. Also, I'm not anonymous...

Peace.

Paul

Edited by braveone2u, 11 January 2013 - 01:49 AM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#41    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:43 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 08 January 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Posted Image



OMG....................................................................................

</violafeeling>

In all seriousness though, I get finally what you're saying. You're right, it's like I saw each individual piece of the puzzle but couldn't put it together. I already knew many other accounts of Christ doing uncooth non-cultural things, but this one totally went right over the head.

Nice keen eye man. Now that's the kinda inspirational spirit driven Christianity I like to see! :tu:

Thank you so much for the incredibly valuable info! :tsu: I'll be sure to pass this along as much as I can...
Voila feeling.

Edited by braveone2u, 11 January 2013 - 01:43 AM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#42    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:58 AM

http://www.unexplain...0

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#43    Ciss

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:45 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 11 January 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

Hi Ciss,

"it wasn't his last time on earth..." It was his last time on earth as a breathing human being.

"...well, that's nice to know that at least God can do that..." It's the reason why I believe in Jesus Christ, a Supreme God, part of the Holy Trinity.

"Did Jesus' death require any faith on his part?" I can't speak for Jesus. I'm sharing with you my collective theory. Belief system is not the same as absolute fact. Nevertheless, my whole life is based on finding my pieces to my puzzle. It's the reason why I'm a Christian again, and I don't take this (major) decision very lightly. You have to read my posts to know more about my decision making. Also, I'm not anonymous...

Peace.

Paul

LOL! I was sitting here trying to figure out what you meant by anonymous! :w00t:

Thanks for pointing it out, I always hit the wrong block when signing in.

I would love to read your posts and gather my own pieces as I go :yes:


#44    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

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  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:54 AM

Hi Ciss,

My reconversion to Christ happened only recently, like 3 or 4 days ago.

Peace.

Paul

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist )    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008232820397

According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#45    Ciss

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:33 AM

You know, sometimes we have to have our building's foundation shaken real hard so that we can see what will remain...My whole world crumbled back in 2008, nothing was left standing just a foundation so I started over again from the beginning, "is there really a God?"  but my foundation did remain :yes:  Christ

Thank you for sharing your own experiences and your own gatherings, you express your heart wonderfully! Something I'm still trying to work on, but bear with me and forgive me, honesty is always where I start from and sometimes even I know it's not pretty! lol! but none the less the spirit of truth remains...





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