372 replies to this topic

[Hazzard]

UFOs, Alien abductions, Area 51, Cattle mutilations, Crop circles, Alien structures and artifacts on the moon and Mars...

What evidence is there, and most importantly, how good is the evidence, that intelligent extraterrestrials are out there, have found Earth, and are now here doing all the things we hear about?

As believers begin to build the case about UFOs and a possible ET connection, the foundation of this is built on hear say, speculations, theories, guess work, assumptions, beliefs and emotions.

Me, personally, I do not deal in any of that (not when it comes to this) I deal in knowledge. There is a vast difference between the two. You may believe all you want, but knowledge requires a higher standard than that which propels belief.

There is no reason to get upset about it. What needs to be understood is the burden of proof that science and its method requires.

We have eyewitness testimony from people that saw something strange that they could not identify flying around, something we call a UFO, where the U stands for Unidentified,... there is nothing else attached to it.

We have lots of cool stories, weird radar returns, video clips and pictures, but that is all we have so far... We have nothing here but peoples opinions and and their belief... an idea about what these observations might represent.


To me thats not even close to enough. I need better evidence!!

Show me a peer review scientific journal that claims for a fact that ET space ships are here, and you will have my full attention. The scientific journals I have seen are only about UFOs.

I think that Steven Schafersman said it best...

I might say, however, that as an investigator of pseudo scientific topics for over twenty years my experience has taught me that the first things to suspect and look for are fraud, forgery, deception, misrepresentation, sophistry, and specious reasoning, and if these are not in evidence, I then look for illogical reasoning, self-deception, misreading, inadvertently fudged data, and willful misunderstanding.

If these are not in evidence, I then look for ignorance, innocent mistakes, misinterpretations, equipment errors, out-of-date references, overlooked results or causes, etc.

Unfortunately, ALL of these items MUST be examined FIRST when investigating any pseudo scientific topic, BEFORE one begins looking for presumed new or unusual natural phenomena. --Steven Schafersman.

Can anyone honestly say he examined and eliminated all the above items before he convinced himself that some of these UFOs are Alien star ships?

[psyche101]

Oppono Astos, on 05 December 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

Very much local interest as Bond and his team are based at Culham.
The proposal does look very interesting, but the team have been pushing variants of the same idea for 20 years; you do wonder why the financial investment isn't there to take this to reality and commercial success.

I am hoping the latest publications have shown something of a turnaround and some good faith in the proposal.

Could it be possible that we just had to wait to retire older technology due to the investments placed in them? This honestly sounds like it could pretty much replace conventional engines. Maybe even the tech could be used for ground vehicles? Do we finally have a hydrogen car?

[psyche101]

DBunker, on 05 December 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Very coool..... sounds like a good place to start..... and then, the Alcubierre drive?


http://news.discover...ive-120924.html


I would like to peek into the future.... lets say 500 years from now.

I think Jean Luc Picard best described the Alcubierre drive as an "elegant proposal". The Alcubierre Drive is not feasible because the matter to be placed on the road beforehand has to be placed at superluminal speed. That's not going to happen. It actually has quite a few problems, but the hypothesis I grant is very interesting, not only do you manipulate space to move at amazing speed, because you are in a "hole" in space time you are forever in free fall, so you overcome inertia in the same instance. I agree, a beautiful concept, but I do not feel it will become viable. I still would like to see something like Old Orion form the 60's clunk it's way across space.

But I still think the first contact will be a phone call

[psyche101]

Lilly, on 05 December 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Probably gonna grab her armpit...female lemeurs mammary glands are located under their arms (I'm not kidding).

Like Dugongs

I wonder how that would go down? Would you still get a slap, or just wonder?

[sslama]

I believe we've been visited in the past....lots of proof of that.  It's in all our ancient writings and pictures.  How they did it is a mystery.  

I don't think they would jump in their spaceship and visit...more likely they would be connected to a computer mind and never leave their homeland or send nanobots of some kind.  Just thinking of where we are headed technologically is mind boggling.  So the old fashioned space ship landing thing is like a child's story.

[psyche101]

sslama, on 16 January 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

I believe we've been visited in the past....lots of proof of that.  It's in all our ancient writings and pictures.  How they did it is a mystery.  

I am afraid there is not. There is an unbelievable amount of ignorance involved, some genuine misconceptions, and outright lies to make such appear so.

sslama, on 16 January 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

I don't think they would jump in their spaceship and visit...more likely they would be connected to a computer mind and never leave their homeland or send nanobots of some kind.  Just thinking of where we are headed technologically is mind boggling.  So the old fashioned space ship landing thing is like a child's story.

So you feel any visitor must be far in advance os us. Why is that.

[sslama]

psyche101, on 16 January 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

I am afraid there is not. There is an unbelievable amount of ignorance involved, some genuine misconceptions, and outright lies to make such appear so.
Sure there is lies and ignorance involved in all sorts of subjects.  If you do serious research, visit other countries, read the literature you can pick out the lies and ignorant comments.  But that doesn't mean it's not possible and there is no proof.


So you feel any visitor must be far in advance os us. Why is that.

@ psyche 101....If you visit other countries....you can see the evidence for yourself.  In Egypt there are carvings in their temples of doctors surgical instruments.   Birthing chairs....they were quite advanced in their medical technology showing the sloping back....this is all modern innovations. In Modern Obsetrics they are finding that slope of these chairs may reduce the pain of childbirth.  

In India you can see the drawings of spaceships.  Vimanas ... many sanskrit epics, which were written in India more than two millenia ago....they contain references to mythical flying machines called vimanas.   Visit Peru it will amaze you.

There is lots of evidence....religious texts, physical specimens such as cave drawings, stone sculptures.

Stories handed down from all cultures in the world.  Indians talked about the Space brothers who visited them, helped them survive the harsh lands of Arizona and believed they would return.

When we have so many eye witness sightings over the years...that alone is good proof.

And yes I believe they are more advanced than us...we are not able to travel to another planet outside our own solar system yet but I feel we are on the verge of being able to do this.  And then we too will visited other planets that are inhabited with beings not as intelligent as us.

Edited by sslama, 17 January 2013 - 03:25 AM.

[badeskov]

sslama, on 17 January 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

@ psyche 101....If you visit other countries....you can see the evidence for yourself.  In Egypt there are carvings in their temples of doctors surgical instruments.   Birthing chairs....they were quite advanced in their medical technology showing the sloping back....this is all modern innovations. In Modern Obsetrics they are finding that slope of these chairs may reduce the pain of childbirth.  

In India you can see the drawings of spaceships.  Vimanas ... many sanskrit epics, which were written in India more than two millenia ago....they contain references to mythical flying machines called vimanas.   Visit Peru it will amaze you.

There is lots of evidence....religious texts, physical specimens such as cave drawings, stone sculptures.

Stories handed down from all cultures in the world.  Indians talked about the Space brothers who visited them, helped them survive the harsh lands of Arizona and believed they would return.

When we have so many eye witness sightings over the years...that alone is good proof.

And yes I believe they are more advanced than us...we are not able to travel to another planet outside our own solar system yet but I feel we are on the verge of being able to do this.  And then we too will visited other planets that are inhabited with beings not as intelligent as us.

Ehh...no!

Cheers,
Badeskov

[DONTEATUS]

We need a chill  pill there TSS, THis is a forum of great members that enjoy posting all kinds of methods of sanity ! We all can learn to accept the differences we indeed all have ! Cheers !

[psyche101]

sslama, on 17 January 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

@ psyche 101....If you visit other countries....you can see the evidence for yourself.  

Hello

Thank you for taking the time to reply, but I will have to stick with the Internet for now as I do not have the available funds for a world tour. It would be nice though.

sslama, on 17 January 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

In Egypt there are carvings in their temples of doctors surgical instruments.   Birthing chairs....they were quite advanced in their medical technology showing the sloping back....this is all modern innovations. In Modern Obsetrics they are finding that slope of these chairs may reduce the pain of childbirth.  

I actually do not doubt this, but cannot see what on earth it has to do with Aliens. Today one can have an epidural. No such thing existed in Ancient Egypt. Pain had to be dealt with as was possible and no doubt, posture was one of the few things that people of the time could utilise to offer relief from pain. Did you realise a fossilised human jawbone has been found that bees wax was used in as a tooth filling as far back as 6,500 years ago? Medicine hardly popped up overnight.

sslama, on 17 January 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

In India you can see the drawings of spaceships.  Vimanas ... many sanskrit epics, which were written in India more than two millenia ago....they contain references to mythical flying machines called vimanas.   Visit Peru it will amaze you.

I have seen and discussed them, surely you jest?






Are you seriously trying to tell me a single Vimana can fly? Have you seen the "blueprints"?





Good luck getting one of these monsters of the ground.


Da Vinci's ideals were much closer to the mark. And IMHO, more eloquent.

sslama, on 17 January 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

There is lots of evidence....religious texts, physical specimens such as cave drawings, stone sculptures. Stories handed down from all cultures in the world.  Indians talked about the Space brothers who visited them, helped them survive the harsh lands of Arizona and believed they would return.

Why the broad brush then? How about an example? The "Eye of God" is featured in much ancient artwork, it is regularly misinterpreted as a spaceship. Deliberately I suspect.

And with cultures, I feel this is where UFOlogists cross the line. I have almost completed a draught proposal that I intend to submit to Indigenous authorities here on that very subject. I think the way UFOlogists re-interpret ancient cultures to include modern pop culture items is criminal. They are stealing my right to an unblemished history. Not one of these claims has stood to scrutiny, they tend to be spiritual and religious motives that unscrupulous types twist to sell a story. As far as I am concerned, the rape of culture is a crime, and we should no entertain it.
I hope to see it as a law someday, and people should have to qualify this nonsense, or they should go to jail IMHO. When I saw Wondjina explained as spacemen, I could have shed a tear. I find it that damaging and I am stunned that these vandals have no conscience for what they are doing.

sslama, on 17 January 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

When we have so many eye witness sightings over the years...that alone is good proof.

It's lousy proof actually. An eyewitness is worth next to nothing. Did you know that over at the innocence project they have freed people who were on death row by way of eyewitness testimony. Of the cases they have already resolved, 75% of them are people that have been freed, and proven innocent beyond doubt by way of DNA evidence, and whom were convicted by eyewitness testimony  That is eyewitness testimony for you. It has landed innocent people on death row. How many have died unjustly due to eyewitness testimony  How many murderers walked free, and lived their lives out?

The problem with testimony is that it is in the eye of the beholder. One mans aliens is another mans goblin. Not one of us knows what an alien spaceship might look like. so we imagine what one might look like, and our imagination is limited to ourselves and our experiences, so things no doubt exist that we cannot imagine.

sslama, on 17 January 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

And yes I believe they are more advanced than us...we are not able to travel to another planet outside our own solar system yet but I feel we are on the verge of being able to do this.  And then we too will visited other planets that are inhabited with beings not as intelligent as us.

We are leaving the solar system right now. The Voyager probes. Yes we are able to travel to another planet outside of our solar system. We have known how to do this for over 50 years. Back in the early 60's we produced the Orion concept spacecraft that was based on nuclear propulsion. It is stil the best bet for interstellar travel, and we could get to Alpha Centauri in about 40 years. We passed the verge you speak of decades ago. What quashed the project was the International Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, which brought on fears about nuclear testing in space, AKA the rainbow bombs. It was a concerne that fallout might contaminate earth. Although several countries do not adhere to the treaty, the US did, and they had the Orion Project.

We could be out there right now, with one system under our belts even. Then there are many projects that want to send interstellar probes to other stars. I think you might be behind the times somewhat. We very recently discovered the most earth like planet. Maybe it will not be too long before we get a cosmic "hello" but I personally believe first contact will be via communications. After all it is cheap, it has no risk, and can travel at the speed of light. Is that not the intelligent thing to do? We recently found an "earth like planet" (KOI-172.02). I do not know how far away it is. We also found a rouge planet, which really would be something to investigate.

Why do you think there would be no "wading" species? By that I mean species like us, taking their first steps into space in clunky loud polluting machines? Why would such not exist? Why does anything but us have to be far more intelligent than us?

Edited by psyche101, 17 January 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Hazzard]

As always, psyche, a very informative post.

I have been looking into the ancient aliens show/claim a little bit and I found a couple of pod casts that I enjoy. Good stuff.

The Dumbasses Guide To Knowledge. http://www.dumbassgu...tries/cat_id=11 Here (on page 2) we have the "Rocks from Saqsaywaman that Tsoukalos thinks were melted into place" that we just had in the AA thread.

And,...

EXPOSING PSEUDO ASTRONOMY - Dr Suart Robins debunking claims from coast to coast (funny as hell). http://pseudoastro.w...tegory/podcast/

Edited by Hazzard, 17 January 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[DBunker]

I will check those out.... thx Hazz.

[DBunker]

I hope that bee arent here......  Richard Hoaglands claims are being shredded.

[DONTEATUS]

The closer one looks, the better one see`s,Sometimes it just pays to Look the Other Way.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Still got the Santa hat, Hazz?