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A message from Elevation Church


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#16    Arbenol68

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

View Postand then, on 03 May 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

What I heard from that is the language of intolerance wrapped in rhetoric about love and acceptance.  Consider a moment, he was saying he rejects all those who are unwilling to change and accept what the majority accept.  Their ideas, opinions and view of morality.  So which is it?  Does his version of "love" include everyone, or just those who agree with him?  Paul tells us in his letter to the Corinthians that satan himself was disguised as an angel of light to deceive.  And the ultimate "intolerant" person of all time was... Christ Himself: "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me".  For me, hate is the ultimate spiritual issue and where faith and spirituality are concerned, Christ is the ultimate arbiter.  It's a simple enough idea.  Either one accepts Christ for who He says He is or they reject Him and take His place.  But this business of broad brushing everyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon of "universal love" is cowardly imo.

Hi, and then
Hope you and yours are all well.

Whilst I'm not likely to agree with you on religion, I like what you have to say here. Tolerance is an absurdly overvalued concept. Taken to extremes, if you preach tolerance, then you need to show tolerance. Tolerance to everything - racism, homophobia, religiously motivated violence, etc.....

Some of the greatest changes in the world were brought about by intolerance and hate for the prevailing ways. Martin Luther King and Gandhi did not show tolerance for what they fought against. They helped change what they hated about their worlds.


#17    Michelle

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostArbenol68, on 03 May 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

if you preach tolerance, then you need to show tolerance. \

I know I cherry picked this part, but it is what I think is important.


#18    Sherapy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:29 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 03 May 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

In no way is he singling out Christianity if that was your insinuation. Many Christians today want to distance themselves from intolerance, which was part of the message in this video.

It is the extremist portion of Chrisitanity, who would tell others they are on the wrong side of the rapture (not all Chrisitans believe in the rapture either) or that they are with Satan for not believing exactly like them, that are being noted for their intolerance.

Pointing out the intolerance of others is in no way an act of intolerance itself. Everyone is accepted and it is only for the intolerant to decide to change. That is the very definiton of religious pluralism, to accept all, even atheists, as fellow human beings.

Many who would take issue with this message might do so because they want a license to continue being intolerant and excluding others. Some take their intolerance beyond theological differences as noted in a couple of the comments from our fellow posters.

While extremist Christians wish to continue their horrible trend of intolerance, who do not help others, who tell their members to distance themselves from the world,

...the Elevation Church is taking a different stance.



http://visionroom.co...evation-church/

They not only help others, regardless of the beliefs, they also help their own to help others.



http://en.wikipedia....levation_Church

You have brought in a good point in your post, to announce that you are looking at things in a new way is not intolerance. To suggest another way is not intolerance either. I did not hear this pastor single out anyone in particular. I have learned that tolerance is the commitment one makes to respect human dignity, that tolerance is one that demonstrates a fair/objective attitude in spite of disagreement. I appreciate that the speaker is going for effect, I have been to tolerance training and let me tell you The Museum of Tolerance is powerful in effect, yet they display a fair attitude in their disagreement of propaganda and prejudice, quite frankly that is what I consider when concluding. Just for the record I am an atheist, I think if this church is seeking a newer way one of universal love and inclusiveness-- good for them. Until I observe otherwise--I think from what I have read what they are doing is a good thing.

Edited by Sherapy, 04 May 2013 - 05:32 PM.




#19    Sherapy

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:36 PM

View PostArbenol68, on 03 May 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Hi, and then
Hope you and yours are all well.

Whilst I'm not likely to agree with you on religion, I like what you have to say here. Tolerance is an absurdly overvalued concept. Taken to extremes, if you preach tolerance, then you need to show tolerance. Tolerance to everything - racism, homophobia, religiously motivated violence, etc.....

Some of the greatest changes in the world were brought about by intolerance and hate for the prevailing ways. Martin Luther King and Gandhi did not show tolerance for what they fought against. They helped change what they hated about their worlds.


Good point,

Indeed Dr. King did voice his concerns for intolerance, " to practice tolerance never means one does not disagree with things or ideas, or ever lends their voice to critiquing what ever the issue is, here is an example from Kings Letter from Birmingham.


"I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

http://www.africa.up...Birmingham.html

Edited by Sherapy, 06 May 2013 - 08:39 PM.







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