58 replies to this topic

[Mnemonix]

If God's mercy was truly unlimited, no one would go to Hell.

I don't understand how a loving, merciful, all-forgiving God would cause someone to suffer in unimaginable pain for all eternity. This isn't love or mercy, and seemingly not unlimited love and mercy.

I, as a limited human, wouldn't want even my worst enemy to suffer for all eternity. I can't comprehend that. So why would a God of unlimited love and mercy want that? That's just an example.

God is almighty, so I'm sure He can be creative and think of an alternative. Just for example, if someone was evil, God could change that person.

I don't mean any offense to God, or anyone. This is just my personal opinion, and of course tons of people out there want to stone me to death for saying this.

To me, something unlimited has to be far greater than even the largest number possible, able to be comprehended by humans. And that's how much love, mercy and forgiveness God should have.

So come to me with some love, if you want to correct me on anything.

Peace and love.

*Sigh*

[Ron Jeremy]

Mnemonix, on 12 September 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

If God's mercy was truly unlimited, no one would go to Hell.

I don't understand how a loving, merciful, all-forgiving God would cause someone to suffer in unimaginable pain for all eternity. This isn't love or mercy, and seemingly not unlimited love and mercy.

I, as a limited human, wouldn't want even my worst enemy to suffer for all eternity. I can't comprehend that. So why would a God of unlimited love and mercy want that? That's just an example.

God is almighty, so I'm sure He can be creative and think of an alternative. Just for example, if someone was evil, God could change that person.

I don't mean any offense to God, or anyone. This is just my personal opinion, and of course tons of people out there want to stone me to death for saying this.

To me, something unlimited has to be far greater than even the largest number possible, able to be comprehended by humans. And that's how much love, mercy and forgiveness God should have.

So come to me with some love, if you want to correct me on anything.

Peace and love.

*Sigh*

Simple solution: God has NONE of those attributes.

[Mnemonix]

Ron Jeremy, on 12 September 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Simple solution: God has NONE of those attributes.

I've been told He does.

I suppose that's one of the simple solutions.

Which is the correct one is the issue.

I'd agree with you if your statement was true.

However, if God DID HAVE those attributes, you'd have to say that He wouldn't want any of his sentient creations to suffer for all eternity in Hell? Isn't that only common sense?

Edited by Mnemonix, 12 September 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[tyrant lizard]

I didn't think God had mercy. I refer you to the genocide he unleashed upon earth killing all living things save two of each species for no real reason.

[Mnemonix]

tyrant lizard, on 12 September 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

I didn't think God had mercy. I refer you to the genocide he unleashed upon earth killing all living things save two of each species for no real reason.

I wonder about that sometimes.

[HavocWing]

Isn't so fitting for a sadist?

[tyrant lizard]

Omnibenevolence is ment to be one of god's characteristics. But then so is omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotency.

But if that was true no evil would ever, ever be able to happen, because god would have a handle on it. The Devil wouldn't exist and therefore Hell would not be nescesarry and neither would forgiveness, for there would be nothing to forgive

[Jackofalltrades]

Mnemonix, on 12 September 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

If God's mercy was truly unlimited, no one would go to Hell.

I don't understand how a loving, merciful, all-forgiving God would cause someone to suffer in unimaginable pain for all eternity. This isn't love or mercy, and seemingly not unlimited love and mercy.

I, as a limited human, wouldn't want even my worst enemy to suffer for all eternity. I can't comprehend that. So why would a God of unlimited love and mercy want that? That's just an example.

God is almighty, so I'm sure He can be creative and think of an alternative. Just for example, if someone was evil, God could change that person.

I don't mean any offense to God, or anyone. This is just my personal opinion, and of course tons of people out there want to stone me to death for saying this.

To me, something unlimited has to be far greater than even the largest number possible, able to be comprehended by humans. And that's how much love, mercy and forgiveness God should have.

So come to me with some love, if you want to correct me on anything.

Peace and love.

*Sigh*

Freewill springs to mind.....

Maybe God give's everyone chance's to redeem themselve's but it is down to each individual's choice's whether they receive mercy or not go to hell

[Mnemonix]

Jackofalltrades, on 12 September 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Freewill springs to mind.....

Maybe God give's everyone chance's to redeem themselve's but it is down to each individual's choice's whether they receive mercy or not go to hell

Depends on how one is supposed to redeem oneself.

tyrant lizard, on 12 September 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Omnibenevolence is ment to be one of god's characteristics. But then so is omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotency.

But if that was true no evil would ever, ever be able to happen, because god would have a handle on it. The Devil wouldn't exist and therefore Hell would not be nescesarry and neither would forgiveness, for there would be nothing to forgive

I've been thinking about that.

Edited by Mnemonix, 12 September 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[keithisco]

Mnemonix, on 12 September 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

I wonder about that sometimes.

You will never get a real answer to what you are asking... it is in the nature of ALL Religions to ensure that what you want is actually unobtainable, therefore making you a slave to a Doctrine in the "hope" that you will finally be the one granted access to continually worship a person that YOU believe exists, for all eternity. Of course, it is also the very nature of ALL religions, to ensure that you always feel inadequate to the task, to look to "Spiritual Leaders" (earthly) who can also , never meet the target, but to whom you will give undivided loyalty to follow their own perverse agendas,To be honest, none of this is not very appealing to me, I am what I am, try to do the best that I can on this earth, whilst making sure that my family is not suckered into greedy, evil, Sects...

[Mnemonix]

If I'm not mistaken, more than half the world's population will be going to Hell according to Christianity and Islam, not to mention all the people who have lived before.

It's a sad thought to me.

Edited by Mnemonix, 12 September 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[scowl]

tyrant lizard, on 12 September 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

I didn't think God had mercy. I refer you to the genocide he unleashed upon earth killing all living things save two of each species for no real reason.

One way to look at this (which I've found is extremely distasteful to some Christians for some reason) is that the Genesis God is "early" God. To put it simply, God's not a very good god at that early point in the story. He overreacts. He punishes indiscriminately and incorrectly. He micromanages everything and gets crazy pissed at the stupid humans when things don't go as planned.

The God in the later part of the Bible is more like an adult. He's less in-your-face, has lower expectations of the stupid humans, and lets things play out however they play out. He doesn't dish out immediate punishment and has become more of an observer and critic of humanity than an active participant. It's seems to me like he sent Jesus to take over this miserable job and wash his hands of these pathetic people he created. God got sick of judging every human during every moment of their lives so it was just easier to do that after they die.

[Mnemonix]

scowl, on 12 September 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

One way to look at this (which I've found is extremely distasteful to some Christians for some reason) is that the Genesis God is "early" God. To put it simply, God's not a very good god at that early point in the story. He overreacts. He punishes indiscriminately and incorrectly. He micromanages everything and gets crazy pissed at the stupid humans when things don't go as planned.

The God in the later part of the Bible is more like an adult. He's less in-your-face, has lower expectations of the stupid humans, and lets things play out however they play out. He doesn't dish out immediate punishment and has become more of an observer and critic of humanity than an active participant. It's seems to me like he sent Jesus to take over this miserable job and wash his hands of these pathetic people he created. God got sick of judging every human during every moment of their lives so it was just easier to do that after they die.

That's one way, but that would mean God is not omniscient.

[keithisco]

Jackofalltrades, on 12 September 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Freewill springs to mind.....

Maybe God give's everyone chance's to redeem themselve's but it is down to each individual's choice's whether they receive mercy or not go to hell

Just what the heck do you mean by "Gods Mercy"?? This Biblical manifestation is a Tyrant that would be sent to the Gallows during the Nurenberg trials. Tell me, why in this age doesn't God have a Twitter or Facebook account (omnipotent, omniprescent)??? If he/she is so wonderful then why not contact people directly outside of Bizarre Catholic traditions (Lourdes etc).

God is a creation of your own minds, fuelled by Middle Ages repression and greed, the Papacy is so corrupt as to deny belief, Islam is based on a Mohammed that was a simple Paedophile (images of Mohammed were permitted until recently by the way), and, of course, the Jews are the chosen people so nobody else has a look in for eternity...

Hell never existed, just the rubbish dump outside of Jerusalem (Gehella)

ps Hands up anyone who can tell me what happened to all of the Gospels rejected at Nycaea (by the roman emperor Constantine) when the current version of the Bible was agreed (hint: The Gospel according to Mary was rejected)

[scowl]

keithisco, on 12 September 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

You will never get a real answer to what you are asking... it is in the nature of ALL Religions to ensure that what you want is actually unobtainable, therefore making you a slave to a Doctrine in the "hope" that you will finally be the one granted access to continually worship a person that YOU believe exists, for all eternity.

Judaism does not promise anything for eternity, only a happy and long life. If your life sucks that means God is punishing you, or possibly (as in the case Job) testing your faith for which you will be rewarded for but only in your lifetime.

Christianity was a more marketable religion. Suffering (which was hard to avoid at the time) became a good thing which would be rewarded posthumously.