95 replies to this topic

[Agent. Mulder]

Kismit, on 17 October 2010 - 06:56 PM, said:

Eric,
How many tests have you conducted? (not just asking people at U.M. to prove themselves)How varied have these tests been? Nobody has ever proven Dark Matter exists, and yet scientists believe that it's certainly there somewhere.

You claim to be Skeptical but you never even question your self. A true skeptic is always asking questions and would not step into an argument with an absolute, without evidence.

Well kismit, its the fact that no ones been able to prove anything, under any controlled situtations.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Kismit, on 17 October 2010 - 06:56 PM, said:

Eric,
How many tests have you conducted? (not just asking people at U.M. to prove themselves)How varied have these tests been? Nobody has ever proven Dark Matter exists, and yet scientists believe that it's certainly there somewhere.

You claim to be Skeptical but you never even question your self. A true skeptic is always asking questions and would not step into an argument with an absolute, without evidence.

One, I have said numerous times I tried to do such activities in my early 20's with no result.
Two, even though you probably wont belive this. I would give just about anything for this to be true. It would be one of the greatest days in my life.

So, do you just believe any random person that makes claims. Thats what it sounds like you are saying. Just curious.
FYI. Even though I am a skeptic, I now belive in some type of higher power, not sure what it is, so I guess that is faith, BUT for people that claim magical abilities they should not expect us to take their words on faith.

[Kismit]

I am not taking any body's word for anything. But I am also not claiming they are making it up for what ever reason either. Because that would be just as bad, wouldn't it?

Agent Mulder, neither has Dark matter been proven or evolution and even gravity. But they are all things that I believe in. Dark matter in particular has never been found or proven to exist in a controlled experiment.

And we could go on to discuss the difference between theories and theorum and indeed good old postulations but we would only be arguing semantics when all is said and done. And we have strayed far enough of topic. Dismissing someone purely because you choose not to believe in something is as bad as accepting something just because you want to believe in it. Evidence is essential but you won't find it if you refuse to look.

[Agent. Mulder]

Kismit, on 18 October 2010 - 01:07 AM, said:

I am not taking any body's word for anything. But I am also not claiming they are making it up for what ever reason either. Because that would be just as bad, wouldn't it?

Agent Mulder, neither has Dark matter been proven or evolution and even gravity. But they are all things that I believe in. Dark matter in particular has never been found or proven to exist in a controlled experiment.

You can be serious? Have been living in solitude since birth?

*Edit* The thing is, if we HAD some dark matter, in controlled environments, we Could test it, to see how accurate our idea of it is.
Same with evolution, we have the evidence for it, and it holds up and is fact.
Your argument is wrong, as if these people had these powers, then we could actually test it.

Edited by Agent. Mulder, 18 October 2010 - 01:20 AM.

[Kismit]

I am assuming you actualy meant 'can't be serious'.  Or have been living in solitude since birth. Not sure how that has anything to do with anything and I'm guessing we will have to just disagree on the fact that my argument is wrong because I could easily make the same argument for a psychic power as you do for dark matter. Firstly i would have to define exactly what it was I was looking for however and then try and find a way to reproduce it.

I have seen and experienced evidence for psychic abilities, I have seen my son who has been the most gifted. My Mother, my sister, my grandmother all display some form of ESP. Nothing that can be controlled by them and nothing I would know any way of measuring.

However my main point of discussion has been that, posters should not come in to a thread to mock someone asking a question. The O.P. never claimed to be able to shoot flames out of thier eyeballs or to be able to conduct telepathic conversations with big foot. They asked a simple question about wether psychic powers could be heriditary. And I notice they haven't been back, I do hope it wasn't because somebody assumed they might be teens who would never get tired of claiming or wanting magical powers on this board?


If people believe that these things don't exist then, if they never post in this section it will make no difference to their lives, at all. If people who do believe get a chance to feel comfortable about posting here they will have a chance to decide for themselves if they wish to continue to believe  or not. But it's a pretty safe bet, that if the only positive you're getting from posting in here is a negative. There will be very little achieved for anyone.

[Agent. Mulder]

Kismit, on 18 October 2010 - 01:52 AM, said:

I am assuming you actualy meant 'can't be serious'.  Or have been living in solitude since birth. Not sure how that has anything to do with anything and I'm guessing we will have to just disagree on the fact that my argument is wrong because I could easily make the same argument for a psychic power as you do for dark matter. Firstly i would have to define exactly what it was I was looking for however and then try and find a way to reproduce it.

I have seen and experienced evidence for psychic abilities, I have seen my son who has been the most gifted. My Mother, my sister, my grandmother all display some form of ESP. Nothing that can be controlled by them and nothing I would know any way of measuring.

However my main point of discussion has been that, posters should not come in to a thread to mock someone asking a question. The O.P. never claimed to be able to shoot flames out of thier eyeballs or to be able to conduct telepathic conversations with big foot. They asked a simple question about wether psychic powers could be heriditary. And I notice they haven't been back, I do hope it wasn't because somebody assumed they might be teens who would never get tired of claiming or wanting magical powers on this board?

If people believe that these things don't exist then, if they never post in this section it will make no difference to their lives, at all. If people who do believe get a chance to feel comfortable about posting here they will have a chance to decide for themselves if they wish to continue to believe  or not. But it's a pretty safe bet, that if the only positive you're getting from posting in here is a negative. There will be very little achieved for anyone.

I chose solitude, as opposed to living under a rock. As youre statements were false.
If these people do exist, then we should be able to test their gifts, as we have them and theyre something tangible.
What argument did i use for dark matter? The same one im using for a psychic? Except, if dark matter is what we claim, then there can be "evidence" for it. But yes, we arent able to test it. Unlike evolution and gravity, which we know are real, because we have the pieces, and have been able to test it.
We should be able to test psychics, and their gifts. Yet for some reason, we cant.

[Kismit]

Gravity, dark matter and evolution and I do hate to say it are all just theories, not that I don't agree that they exist. That is not false information.They are theories. I didn't make them that way. That is fact.

Define for me what it is that you would be testing a psychic for. In quantifiable amounts.

[Agent. Mulder]

Kismit, on 18 October 2010 - 02:15 AM, said:

Gravity, dark matter and evolution and I do hate to say it are all just theories, not that I don't agree that they exist. That is not false information.They are theories. I didn't make them that way. That is fact.

Define for me what it is that you would be testing a psychic for. In quantifiable amounts.

Thats fine if you think theyre just theories, it just means you have no understand of evolution of gravity then, and havent really looked into the subjects. Scientific theories explain observable facts. Fact.
Dark matter isnt up there yet, with gravity and evolution.

What type of psychic? Define that please.
Your run of the mill generic "i can read your mind/see the future" kind? What would i look for in them?

[Black Hound]

Of course one can though no study has been done, to my knowledge, that can verify my opinion.

[Kismit]

That's what I asked you for Mulder. I honestly could not define your, as you put it, run of the mill psychic. Becuase in my experience there is no such thing as run of the mill standard. Uri Gellar type of person and no I do not believe that Uri gellar had special powers. But i can tell you that 2 weeks before my family had our near fatal accident my mother had a vision of my husband and I driving along the road and she saw what she thought were leaves blowing into our faces. How would you quantify and test for that?

And if you wish to believe I have no concept of the realities of scientific principles that's fine. I'm not here to discuss that. I've been here long enough to prove myself.

[Max.L]

Kismit, on 18 October 2010 - 06:10 AM, said:

That's what I asked you for Mulder. I honestly could not define your, as you put it, run of the mill psychic. Becuase in my experience there is no such thing as run of the mill standard. Uri Gellar type of person and no I do not believe that Uri gellar had special powers. But i can tell you that 2 weeks before my family had our near fatal accident my mother had a vision of my husband and I driving along the road and she saw what she thought were leaves blowing into our faces. How would you quantify and test for that?

And if you wish to believe I have no concept of the realities of scientific principles that's fine. I'm not here to discuss that. I've been here long enough to prove myself.

What do leaves blowing into your faces have to do with a near fatal accident?  

If you say that it POSSIBLY meant or by some means is RELATED it to the accident, then that is just plain.. silly, no offense intended. There are many ways to interpret something. You probably only saw `the link' between the dream and the accident only after the accident happen. It was mere coincidence.  

Hope you and your family are fine. : )

[Agent. Mulder]

Kismit, on 18 October 2010 - 06:10 AM, said:

That's what I asked you for Mulder. I honestly could not define your, as you put it, run of the mill psychic. Becuase in my experience there is no such thing as run of the mill standard. Uri Gellar type of person and no I do not believe that Uri gellar had special powers. But i can tell you that 2 weeks before my family had our near fatal accident my mother had a vision of my husband and I driving along the road and she saw what she thought were leaves blowing into our faces. How would you quantify and test for that?

And if you wish to believe I have no concept of the realities of scientific principles that's fine. I'm not here to discuss that. I've been here long enough to prove myself.

Well, no. You told me to define what im testing for when looking at a psychic. Which would be the methods and results, and what im aimiung for. I was just asking what type of person im supposedly testing here.
If its the run of the mill psychic (I stated above) then its not hard to test it.
As for your moms vague dream seeing you driving, and leaves blowing in your face, how does that equal fatal car accident?
Ive had dreams that later appeared to come true as well. Its not psychic though, i dream every night, im almost bound by chance to get something i dream about to resemble reality. But ive had thousands of dreams that equate to NOTHING in reality though. Thus, i forget about those completely.
Yes, you have no concept of them, but youre right, were not here to discuss it.

[Seeker79]

Yes. And most skeptics are faithful followers of the sceince faith. That's my only problem with them. They claim to unbiased and logical yet, they are only regurgitating information they have read about. They have faith in the process which we know is good but flawed, they have faith n scintists  who as human are flawed, so they beleive what they hear and read. I'll say it again as I have Elswhere if a sceptic has not personally experienced the experiment they are takeing it on faith. And we all know the sceintific world will drastically change it's stances in years to come, and 2/3 of everything they take for truth now will no longer be right. I agree there are many reports of psycic Abilities that are just fantasys, but there are those that are not. And sciencie has not even prooving how or why we got here, so for a thoughtful skeptic it is way to premature to start bashing people with real experiences. In my book they Are worse than the kid with the fantasy. The kid will grow out if their dillusions the faithful sceptic is forever lost in his.

Edited by Seeker79, 18 October 2010 - 04:13 PM.

[Agent. Mulder]

Seeker79, on 18 October 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

Yes. And most skeptics are faithful followers of the sceince faith. That's my only problem with them. They claim to unbiased and logical yet, they are only regurgitating information they have read about. They have faith in the process which we know is good but flawed, they have faith n scintists  who as human are flawed, so they beleive what they hear and read. I'll say it again as I have Elswhere if a sceptic has not personally experienced the experiment they are takeing it on faith. And we all know the sceintific world will drastically change it's stances in years to come, and 2/3 of everything they take for truth now will no longer be right. I agree there are many reports of psycic Abilities that are just fantasys, but there are those that are not. And sciencie has not even prooving how or why we got here, so for a thoughtful skeptic it is way to premature to start bashing people with real experiences. In my book they Are worse than the kid with the fantasy. The kid will grow out if their dillusions the faithful sceptic is forever lost in his.

Science isnt faith. You accept science based on the facts, you dont Believe in it.
They accept what is shown to be fact. Again, you dont believe in it. You have a very biased and flawed understanding of science.
Why will what we know now, no longer be truth?
What does sciences stance on the Big Bang and Abiogenesis have to do with this? Nothing. Try a real argument, not some sophists.

[Seeker79]

What facts mulder. Anything that you can proove like say gravity exists, obviously it does, is then boiled down to how does exist, what's making it work. This is the reductionists method. But then inevitably you come to point where the best of sceince has to say well we don't know. Everything from gravity, momentum, electromagnatizm,...all of it cannot be explained on it's most fundamental level yet you genius agent mulder think you got it. Crap you should be writting in sceintific journals you are the first person with real answers. Honestly man you can't tell anyone what your made of, where you are at, how you got there, how it began, how it will end, why you or anything else is here. All of your precious facts come from completely not understood concepts. Extensions of the unkown. The only thing proovable is the observation itself. The reduced reason for every single thing is a mystery. This idea that people like you have that sceince has or will have all the answers is a faith. There is no basis in reality to beleive that. Sceince is makeing observations and all observations boil down to things that are completely un explained, so it makes any absolute statment about the nature of the universe highly suspect and anyone who beleives in a specific method a person of faith. If you don't want to be a person of faith you have to be an agnostic, because it is the only honest position.