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Obama threatens ‘Judeo-Christian values'


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#16    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:47 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 06 November 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

I'm Canadian and I don't have a CLUE what religion our political leaders follow, if any. It doesn't come up at election time.

Must be nice.

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#17    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:23 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 05 November 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

GET RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS!!!

Sorry but if you read and understand the Bible and our founding fathers it is our christian duty to be involved in politics.

and furthermore if it wasn't for the great awakening and what was preached from the pulpit in the 1700's you wouldn't have the freedom to cry "GET RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS"

a little research goes along way.

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread" --Thomas Jefferson(1821)

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session"--Mark Twain(1866)

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson(1800)

#18    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:33 AM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 06 November 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Sorry but if you read and understand the Bible and our founding fathers it is our christian duty to be involved in politics.

and furthermore if it wasn't for the great awakening and what was preached from the pulpit in the 1700's you wouldn't have the freedom to cry "GET RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS"

a little research goes along way.

It can, but it seems not to have, in your case. The founding fathers were not christians.
This may come as a shock to you, but it's not the 1700's anymore. Your "christian duty" has no place in the 21st century. Keep your desert nomad's god out of politics.

"A cat has nine lives. For three he plays, for three he strays, and for the last three he stays."


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#19    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:18 AM

Someone can be driven by a religious principle (what Miskantonic is saying) but not be driven by religion (what Imaginary wants). For example, I am Catholic, but I do not have to invoke Catholic principles in my dealings with people, while the morality grown out of that belief system will inevitably play a role in those dealings. The Founding Fathers believed in certain principles, many of which came from their beliefs in Higher Powers and in the teachings found in the Bible, but they did not bring that religious belief into their actions in founding America, they kept their religion(s) out but brought their beliefs to the table. They didn't force their beliefs upon others, despite what those beliefs may have entailed (ie evangalisation or a stance on certain matters).

You can be a Christian and break bread with someone who is a Muslim and not mention religion once, despite what BOTH belief systems say about how yo deal with people of a different faith. That's what Imaginary wants - however it's impossible to fully take the religion out of the equation, as it's part of what makes the person in politics the person they are.

Edited by Wearer of Hats, 06 November 2012 - 04:18 AM.

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When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
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#20    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 06 November 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

It can, but it seems not to have, in your case. The founding fathers were not christians.
This may come as a shock to you, but it's not the 1700's anymore. Your "christian duty" has no place in the 21st century. Keep your desert nomad's god out of politics.

*Snip*

not christian? does benjamin rush, patrick henry ring any bells *Snip* .
do alittle research outside of a textbook you might be suprised what you find.
but why bother responding to you? *Snip*.

Edited by Karlis, 06 November 2012 - 05:17 AM.
Deleted ad hominem phrases

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread" --Thomas Jefferson(1821)

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session"--Mark Twain(1866)

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson(1800)

#21    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:05 AM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 06 November 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

*Snip*

not christian? does benjamin rush, patrick henry ring any bells *Snip* .
do alittle research outside of a textbook you might be suprised what you find.
but why bother responding to you? *Snip*.
Like I said, they were Christian but the Founding Fathers didn't Found a Christian Nation.

Edited by Karlis, 06 November 2012 - 05:19 AM.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#22    Karlis

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:13 AM

Keep ad hominem remarks out of posts, please.

Karlis -- mod team member.


#23    Jinxdom

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:19 AM

Obama isn't a idiot for saying that.

Most people are in the hole when it comes to cash. Why shouldn't they have an option to get proper healthcare? It's not the he is enforcing everybody to the same healthcare he just want to raise the bar a bit. It's ok rich guys you'll still have better healthcare then the poor folk and the minorities.

Heck if they understood what they read in the bible they would come to the same conclusion. You know that whole free-will concept. We had to make America the whole land of freedom and liberty for the people who can't understand that. Had to change a few choice words (Free-will---->Freedom)to keep the concept of choice and free-will and not piss people off who didn't understand.


#24    Likely Guy

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:33 AM

View PostKarlis, on 06 November 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

Keep ad hominem remarks out of posts, please.

Karlis -- mod team member.
Hey Karlis, you're an Australian. Do you have a clue what your political leaders religious beliefs are, or care?


#25    Likely Guy

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:36 AM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 06 November 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Sorry but if you read and understand the Bible and our founding fathers it is our christian duty to be involved in politics.

and furthermore if it wasn't for the great awakening and what was preached from the pulpit in the 1700's you wouldn't have the freedom to cry "GET RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS"

a little research goes along way.

By that logic Greeks should still worship Zeus.

They were the first to conceive democracy on which all others were founded upon, no?

Edited by Likely Guy, 06 November 2012 - 05:41 AM.


#26    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:45 AM

Sorry Karlis

View PostLikely Guy, on 06 November 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

By that logic Greeks should still worship Zeus.

I don"t think the same goverment has ruled greece for 3000 yrs.?

My point is this country was founded with certain values in mind and the farther we as a nation get away from those values the harded we are going to find it to survive.

"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread" --Thomas Jefferson(1821)

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session"--Mark Twain(1866)

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson(1800)

#27    Likely Guy

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:54 AM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 06 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Sorry Karlis



I don"t think the same goverment has ruled greece for 3000 yrs.?

My point is this country was founded with certain values in mind and the farther we as a nation get away from those values the harded we are going to find it to survive.

The same government hasn't ruled the US since it's founding either. Most of the signers of the Declaration were slave owners as well.

Belief's and values change.

Edited by Likely Guy, 06 November 2012 - 05:58 AM.


#28    Karlis

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:55 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 06 November 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

Hey Karlis, you're an Australian. Do you have a clue what your political leaders religious beliefs are, or care?
Political leaders' Religious beliefs should not be an issue, imo. Attacking a person for their religious beliefs is quite another thing.


#29    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:57 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 06 November 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

Hey Karlis, you're an Australian. Do you have a clue what your political leaders religious beliefs are, or care?
the PM's an Atheist and the Opposition Leader is a Catholic from the 1950s.
We only know these things because our brand of religious wacko made a noise about the former during the election and the later because he himself makes a lot of noise about it.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#30    Cradle of Fish

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:01 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 06 November 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:


Hey Karlis, you're an Australian. Do you have a clue what your political leaders religious beliefs are, or care?

Our Prime Minister is an atheist and she isn't the first one. We have the Family First party which is sometimes labelled as a Christian Right party, and the only reason I don't support them is because I don't agree with their platform. Religion is seen as a personal matter in this country which is the way it should be.

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